T04B H-trim is about the same size as the GT40 50-trim nyt was selling (although the GT40 has a taller efficiency).

Really, no need to get all nasty on this topic... :)

A "full" T04B V-trim will make slightly more power than a V-trim hybrid.
This is due to the free-flowing turbine section - full T04B turbine versus the stock Hitachi turbine.
The V-trim should do 300hp - 350hp easily.

For some odd reason, Turbonetics calls it's "60-1" a "T04B".
Almost any other turbo shop will call the 60-1 a "T04E".
I admit, the 4" inlet is a good reason to call the 60-1 a T04E.


-Ted

the v trim and h3 trims ARE peashooters, that wheel was from a h3 trim. it couldnt flow more than 13 psi up top. a 60-1 is a great turbo, again, READ THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD, he was asking about a to4b v1/v2

just as a reference, 50 trim gt-40 drops down to 17 psi in 4th gear from compressor choke, a to4b h3 dropped down to 12-13 psi.

I made 427rwhp@17psi on the gt-40.. the to4b h3 broke within a few days from being overrevved

Thanks guys. I've given up on V1/V2. Too small, and totally agree the 60-1 is a better sized choice. What are your thoughts on manifolds? Should I strive for a certain inlet/outlet size as well? Goal is the easiest (on the motor and turbo) 350rwhp. 15lbs max boost.

a 60-1 should make more than 350 @ 15 psi =] its a nice setup

I have a to4b s/v front side and stock backside...don't know hp #'s but 12.7sec 1/4 at 3000ft (so low 12's near sealevel).
I could make 17 psi @ 4k but only 7 Psi by 7k.

just got a full to4b s/v (.96 back side)....hope for some good gains up top when installed(yea-external wastegate).

[QUOTE=Triangle Power]I currently have a BNR Stage 2 Hybrid on street ported, fmic, Microtech S5 TII. How does a full TO4B V1/V2 compare to that turbo? I would assume it will spool faster. I don't know the exact trim or any sizes but worse case scenario (smallest trim available or biggest) how much power will the TO4B put down. I made 328rwhp @15lbs with the hybrid and want to remain


Street port, BNR stage 2, 15PSI boost, and only 328 RWHP, I hope that is also with a cat and not with DP-MP-CatBack.

Chuck, I believe he is talking about a 2nd gen car. The BNR stage 2 hybrid upgrade for a 2nd gen is good for mid 300's or something along those lines.

I was wondering why the power was so low for the mods.

to4b v trim 355rwhp @14psi.

60-1 on my n/a 10 psi havent dyno'd it yet but if im not careful I can loose al of my rear traction going into sec. and bark the hell out of them going into third.

I'd like to see the dyno sheet.

Just an update since I received a few messages about this thread. Now May of 2005, I still have the same turbo, BNR Stage 2, 4x 720cc injectors, Microtech LTX12, ND high flow fuel pump, etc. Only thing I did over the winter was change the exhaust from the 2.5in bonez dp, 2.5in racing beat silencer and Apexi N1's duals out. I replaced that exhaust with the racing beat full 3in turbo exhaust.

A beautiful "QUIET" exhaust. Night and day difference on volume compared to old setup. I had it dyno'd, we did 3rd gear runs, repeat 3rd gear runs. It put down 312 rwhp in 3rd gear. 15lbs boost. I suffered a couple missfires, one around 5800 prms and again near 6500rpms. These robbed me of a couple rwhp. Different spark plug wires will clear this up. So figure maybe around 315-318rwhp in 3rd gear. No clue what max power would be in 4th gear now but for simplicity and fun factor this works nicely. Guessing around 335-340rwhp ?

Back From the Dead.

My hyrbid turbo recently starting spitting oil into my intake. I have measured it to be a to4b w/ a t5/6 54trim compressor wheel. It put down 223RWHP at 7-9 psi. I'm thinking I'll have it rebuilt/balanced at this place http://www.turbochargersystems.com/

Looking for a little more power, 300-350, will a 60-1 wheel work with my to4b housing? or are there any other wheels or mods that I should consider? H-trim, 60-1 hifi???

I might rebuild it and order a new wheel myself and just have them balance it.

What in the world is a "t5/6 comparator wheel"? Measurements on the inducer/exducer ?

I've been looking into building a hybrid since I got a good deal on a to4b u-trim (54mm - 70mm) w/ a p-trim turbine wheel. Since the comp wheel was chewed up (and too small anyway) I figured I'd have the compressor machined for a 60-1 (59mm - 76mm) wheel basically making it a bnr stage 3. It should easily be capable of 350whp. My only concern was lag...

Complaints about the lag of the bnr stage 4 seem to be pretty universal, and the only difference between it and the stage 3 is the clipped stock turbine in the stage 3 vs the clipped p-trim in the hogged out housing in the stage 4.

Not a comparator, compressor.
Ind=2.032" Ex=2.750" 54 Trim

I have a to4b .60 AR housing on a s5 Stock hotside.
I need to get a to4b 60-1 wheel with an exducer of 2.75(70mm) right?

Using Howard Coleman's "turbo comparison" thread
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/turbo-comparison-includes-new-2023-garrett-gbc-bw-sx-r-turbos-post-one-869614/
I found the ratios of avg turbine area to avg compressor area for some prospective turbo setups:

Stock: compressor - 3.579 turbine - 4.288 ratio = 119%
T04b v-trim: compressor - 4.841 turbine - 4.288 ratio = 89%
T04b h-trim: compressor - 5.056 turbine - 4.288 ratio = 85%
60-1 (stg 3) : compressor - 5.651 turbine - 4.288 ratio = 76%
60-1 (stg 4) : compressor - 5.651 turbine < 5.891 ratio < 104%
Full 60-1 : compressor - 5.651 turbine - 5.891 ratio = 104%

Notice the "less than" for the stage 4, this is because the wheel is clipped, thus reducing the turbine wheel area, the reduction would depend on the degree of the clip.

Even w/that factored in one would think that it would take a pretty significant clip to drop the stage 4 low enough so it would be laggy compared to the v or h trim hybrids. The only thing I can come up w/ is that the greater weight of the p-trim wheel contributes significantly to the slower spool.

..yeah, compressor-- dammed predictive text...
That's even smaller than the u trim (54mm ind.) Even still it should be enough for close to 300whp if you push it; you'll be hard pressed to hit 300-350whp on any hybrid @ 7-9 psi, :lol:. A larger wheel would make it easier though.

My understanding us that the 60-1 wheel is 59mm (2.323") inducer -- 76.2mm (3.0") exducer , thus making it significantly larger and more capable than the t04b wheels. That means you would need to have your cover machined to accept the 60-1 wheel (or any larger wheel for that matter)

I'm not looking to make 300-350 at 7-9 psi that's where I made 223rwhp. I'm limited to around 15psi with the RTEK.

Been looking at the 60-1 hi-fi. Is the HT-18 a big shaft? I'm still researching...

Thanks

Did you ever get a chance to actually boost w/your hybrid? (glad you kept your car btw).

Both the v-trim and the h-trim will get you over 300whp under 15psi. I believe someone has actually hit 361whp on a knightsports hybrid (which seems to be spec'd similar to an h-trim) but I don't recall what ecu or psi.

You do not want the big shaft wheel. The ht-18 is standard shaft.

Hi-fi or not isn't that crucial on a hybrid, your only operating at a percentage of its original efficiency anyway. If its a minimal price difference go for the hi-fi, but is not worth paying significantly more.

two observations, the first is that the stock compressor is SMALL, the V trim is a good match, because its a good size for a moderate street engine, but its also a good fit with the stock turbine still.

the lag comes from 3 places. bigger compressor, duh, bigger turbine wheel, duh, but its also the housing that starts to be the restriction, vs a full T4, which runs the same wheels, but isn't laggy.

in a sense the hybrid turbo is a balancing act between keeping a "stock" package, but making more power without adding too much lag. kinghtsports spent a lot of time looking for wheels, and they picked a small one, but it works really well in the combination.

All good points.

I was actually reconsidering the 60-1 wheel for exactly that reason. Apparently the knightsports turbo is good for over 350whp/300ft lbs and that's all I'm looking for. I doubt the lag of the 60-1 would be worth it for the extra 20 or so hp it would yield up top.

Unfortunately h-trim wheels aren't exactly easy to come by and I'll still need to have my housing machined.

Well My existing 54 trim wheel measured 2.032 & 2.754. Will a 60-1 hi-fi wheel fit in my compressor housing? Will the backing plate need to be machined? I've been searching, but this to4b 60-1 hi-fi is alluding me...

60-1 Hi-Fi Trim 2.324" Inducer Diameter 3.00" Major Diameter <--I don't think this will fit compared to my existing compressor?

Maybe just go with a to4b H-trim.
409826-0015, 70(2.75")x58.40(2.30"), 70 trim, H trim
Not sure that will fit either?

Will take some more measurements tonight. Seems like the wheel, housing, and backing plate all have to match?

Any and all information is greatly appreciated!

yes, the housing and backplate need to be be as close to the wheel as possible without touching. since the backplate seals the flat side of the wheel, each one might work with a couple different wheels, but IDK.

it IS possible to machine the housing and backplate for a bigger wheel, to a point. so some of the hybrids are V or H wheels in machined stock housings