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I was going to say the same thing. I love pushlok style hose and fittings but they really do need a bit of flex so as not to eat themselves.
Originally Posted by BLUE TII
Sounds mean as hell!
Nice update.
One thing from my experience, keep a very careful eye on the short lines from the two pumps to the Y fitting.
Because the hose is stiff and the run is short with the push lock nipples taking up length you can see there is a tighter bend right at the nipple end on the Y fitting. This will tend to abrade the hose from the inside and it will split earlier than it would otherwise.
If you go to -an style you will lose the push lock nipple length for a longer hose length to have the bend in and there won't be the internal stress riser of the nipple against the short radius of the hose bend.
-edit- actually, this would be a prime place for steel hardline and tube nuts. I am not a fan of Aluminum because it fails with vibration and it is connected right to the pumps.
I lost a motor from this when I first did my '044 in-tank. The hose lasted about a mile and ofc failed under WOT. Your mileage may vary, but I would hate to see it fail ever.
EFR9180 26.5psi just shy of 750rwhp, E85. 2x 044 pumps running at 70psi base fuel pressure. 13.5v at the pumps. Genuine 044's are very hard to beat in terms of performance, reliability, life span, current draw, and cost.
I was going to say the same thing. I love pushlok style hose and fittings but they really do need a bit of flex so as not to eat themselves.
Another issue with this Y setup is if you lose one pump the good pump will back feeds through the bad pump. Depending on what the fuel demands are one pump may be enough to save your motor even if it is lean but if it back feeds through the bad pump probably not.
Using a fuel log with the OEM 044 check valves may solve both potential problems.
There are tons available. Here is an example that would fit the way you currently have things routed.
Any worries about the loop of hose from the secondary rail to FPR looping over the turbo?
I can't tell how close it is, so its probably not a big deal.
is there any advantage to running the rails in parallel vs series?
It really isn't close enough to be of worry and it was the only way I could run that 8AN line without putting a bunch of pressure on the barb from having a tight bend. When you look at the location from the side you can see its far enough forward its more over the compressor side. That being said, I'll check the line after some pulls when the whole bay is super hot, if the line is sketchy hot to me, I'll add a some heat shielding.
As for parallel vs series, it isn't necessary to go parallel until very high horsepower levels. In theory it will flow more fuel.
Originally Posted by JZG
EFR9180 26.5psi just shy of 750rwhp, E85. 2x 044 pumps running at 70psi base fuel pressure. 13.5v at the pumps. Genuine 044's are very hard to beat in terms of performance, reliability, life span, current draw, and cost.
What car is this? 70 PSI base fuel pressure is crazy! I'd definitely like to hear more about this setup. Bosch has moved to adding individually serialized seals to the 2017 044 boxes that you can go verify online, so it is now REALLY easy to know if you got fakes or real pumps.
Originally Posted by Neutron
Another issue with this Y setup is if you lose one pump the good pump will back feeds through the bad pump. Depending on what the fuel demands are one pump may be enough to save your motor even if it is lean but if it back feeds through the bad pump probably not.
Using a fuel log with the OEM 044 check valves may solve both potential problems.
There are tons available. Here is an example that would fit the way you currently have things routed.
I'll ultimately be adding check valves to this setup, but it isn't a deal breaker for me right this moment. I'll be relying on the ECU to react to the fuel pressure loss and cut the ignition to save the motor.
Originally Posted by TRRAPLN
Check Valves!
Coming soon.
Headed out to drive and tune some today within the hour. Hopefully will have an update soon.
Was browsing through old threads and realized how long ago it was since this thread was updated!
I street tuned the car to ~21 lbs of boost on E85 and came to realize that the IWG EFR + turblown mini manifold wasn’t going to be anywhere near capable of hitting my 750rwhp target, so in normal fashion I decided to overhaul the car including several aspects of the fuel system. The fuel system discussed in this thread was installed in the car and successfully fed the semi peripheral motor and EFR 9180 combination without any hiccups for a few thousand miles to what I estimate to be 580-600hp on E85. I didn’t have any specific gripes about it, but did find a few things I could improve on to make it better.
Previously the pumps were fed from a single 10an sump outlet that was split to 8an lines to each pump. This always bothered me as it seemed like a suction head choke point, so I moved to independent 10an ptfe lines and added a second 100 micron Weldon fuel filter right off of the sump. Additionally, I re-installed the factory 044 check valves along with the high flow xrp check valve adapters and will be staging the pumps using the ECU to trigger the secondary on when needed. This should help keep fuel temps down and reduce the power draw on the vehicle during normal operation.
On the front end, I upgraded from the primaries from 2X ID1300’s to 2X ID2000’s for a grand total of 6 ID2000’s between the rails and in true test of patience hard-lined everything fuel and oil related in the engine bay. I plan on changing out the remaining aeroquip aqp push lock stuff to fragola pfte to match the sump to pump feeds in the back and believe that between the hardline engine bay and ptfe lines throughout the rest, the system should be bulletproof and set to last.
This time around the turbo will for certain be capable of hitting the 750hp mark, so we shall see how the fuel system holds. I’ve got a 3rd 044 sitting on the table in my garage should it be needed, but I’m expecting to crack the 750 on e85 with the first two with room to spare.
Very nice work as always. Have you been planning your transmission upgrade ?
The trans issue has been on the back of my mind, but I'm not going to move on it until I run through my current one and the spares I have on hand now. I recently picked up a goopy scattershield for the oem trans and already have the banzai solid mount that helps provide additional resistance to twisting. Given the cost of a proper transmission solution, I plan to see how far I can get with the factory box when it is coupled with the best supporting mods. Between the scattershield, the brace and likely the addition of a billet pan the casing itself will be about as resistant to twisting and cracking as its gonna get and I believe the weak point will be the output shaft which I think I may can mitigate with a high flex driveshaft.
We'll see how it pans out. I'm not afraid to grenade a few as I've got a handful and can do the swap solo in a few hours.
Nice, any pics of the hard fuel line? Bet it looks legit.
I'll have to take a better one when I get home. Most of the in-process pics I have on my phone doesnt really show how it ended up as I redid every line no less than 5 times until I was happy with the final product. Here's a zoomed in picture of the one I poster earlier showing how it ended up. The DIY hardline job is no easy task if you are as **** as I am about things being perfect. Even now....I'm debating redoing a few lines.
Nice to see someone being methodical with plumbing.
what transmission pan do you have? Are you happy with it? Is the goopy scatter shield ok? I have an OS gearset which I would like to survive, I already have additional gearbox and diff mounts.
Nice to see someone being methodical with plumbing.
what transmission pan do you have? Are you happy with it? Is the goopy scatter shield ok? I have an OS gearset which I would like to survive, I already have additional gearbox and diff mounts.
Thank man. I currently only have the factory pan but have been considering an aftermarket billet one to strengthen the casing. Honestly, after all the run around I've had with crappy suppliers recently I'd probably just pull my oem one off to measure the footprint then cad up my own and have someone local cnc it. The goopy scattershield is a solid piece. I dont know how much, if any, regidity it would add to the bellhousing preventing twist, but I figure it cant hurt and if he helps me keep legs after a clutch explosion....its worth it.
Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7
Are they aluminum or SS lines?
Its just regular ole summit racing aluminum fuel tube, sleeves and tube nuts. I would probably run a SS hardline if it were under the car, but in the engine bay I think workability takes precident as it was a beast of a job getting them all right with just the aluminum.
Update: finally wraping up the final bits of the most recent complete overhaul. Between the fueling demand of the semi peripheral port engine and the flow capability of this turbo system we're actually going to finally see how all of this planning stands up to the power we spec'd it for.
Since my last post I realized I had a bit more work to do than I thought and as per normal I've had little to no time for the car. I did find time the last 2 weekends to finish all the wiring and the car is now mechanically and electrically 100% sorted and prepped for fire. All thats left is adding coolant, oil and gas the loading up the new tune file and checking that all the new IOs read and function correctly and that nothing leaks when the fuel pumps pressurize the system, then its ready to fire. Hoping for sometime this week.
Since my last post I realized I had a bit more work to do than I thought and as per normal I've had little to no time for the car. I did find time the last 2 weekends to finish all the wiring and the car is now mechanically and electrically 100% sorted and prepped for fire. All thats left is adding coolant, oil and gas the loading up the new tune file and checking that all the new IOs read and function correctly and that nothing leaks when the fuel pumps pressurize the system, then its ready to fire. Hoping for sometime this week.
Skeese
Forums are dead, but I'm excited for this one. 800whp or bust, baby!
Negative. I'm an on school mechanical cable guy. Dont get me wrong, I like the DBW stuff and would gladly go that route, but I came into this Ludwig harness at a good deal and the only thing about it not suited to my car/preference was the inclusion of OMP wiring, and lack of DBW wiring. I may could reconfigure or repin some stuff to get there, but it would be very difficult to bring myself to hack and mod a harness this nice. Id only really want DBW for use in idle control as the semi really needs a wider range than what the stock ISC can provide.
05-18-17, 08:44 PM
