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the TT setup is not a v-band turbine though, so that example is not relative imo.
One issue with them is the actual ID size. It really doesn’t matter if a round hole flows better than an oval if it ends up being the equivalent of an orifice plate at the turbine entrance. The rotary engine having 30% more exhaust flow for the same power as a reciprocating piston engine complicates the matter.
Which that setup avoids because again; it’s not a v-band turbine. It really has nothing at all to do with achieving 1:1 emap. Their results are their results, but largely misinterpreted it seems (I read the thread previously).
because a short-ratio racing transmission goes a long way to negating the need for a wide powerband and low rpm performance (other than from a dead stop due to the steep 1st gear).
you can argue that the flow has to taper down in the turbine regardless, it’s still not the same thing as tapering it down in two separate streams of a twin scroll housing. True street and true racing scenarios should not be confused.
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Not to thread hyjack, but since we are on the topic of turbo manifolds.... I am still impressed with Howard Colemans design the most. Unfortunately at the moment he is not making them. In looking at the Turblown and most others, the exhaust is pointed toward the wastegates. Howards design makes more sense to me. I am starting or order single turbos parts for my build and if I cant get Howard manifold, I dont know which I will go with.
While I like his ideas, he made a huge deal about how he didn't use schedule piping in his manifolds for a bunch of reasons, but then started using it and seems to be using it now. Apart from that inconsistency, the rest of his engineering seems sound. I have referenced his website more than a few times for my own car. Hopefully he will chime in here, he might be willing to make you a manifold if you ask nicely
while i generally agree w the diagram re WG position it disregards additional variables such as WG size and porting. my WG is 60 mm.
besides position, size matters.
WG piston area
one 38 mm 1.76 sq inches
one 40 mm 1.95 sq inches
one 44 mm 2.35 sq inches
two 40 mm 3.9 sq inches
two 44 mm 4.7 sq inches
one 60 mm 4.38 sq inches
ideally you want all the flow directly into the turbo. the perfect setup biases to the turbo but also controls boost. the level of control of course should be a personal decision. my manifold is designed for me and i am fine w not running below 15 psi as the trade off is a more efficient flow to the turbo. here is my manifold in action w an 80 pound per minute turbo... no creep.
i note there is (another) warped apex seals thread in this section. putting aside that the apex seals were the victim, not the culprit, the setup is a 69 mm turbo and ONE FORTY MM WG. no wonder the turbo manifold almost melted and was creeping to 17 on an 11 initial setting.
it would be real nice if some fabricators would see this before they started making manifolds.
i understand that sometimes getting the best flow might be a challenge due to the lack of space but most often than not i am scratching my head thinking wtf is the logic behind some manifold designs i see
while breaking in my new stuff i thought it might be fun to do an experiment. it seems like there's a bunch of concern about my wastegate angle. make no mistake, it is intentionally situated so as to NOT interrupt the flow from the motor to the hot wheel.
"sure it is better for power but it will never work. you will never be able to run low boost and you will certainly get boost creep."
due to certain flow oriented interior details along w a 60 mm (single) recirculated wastegate and with a 115 pound G40-1150 turbo i can run 16.2 PSI w no creep. that's w two Tial red springs. i thought it would be fun to remove the smaller of the two springs to see how low i could go..
how about 11.7 no creep
of course that's no fun so back in went the other red spring:
16.4, no creep and more fun. i can easily run 30 psi by turning on the boost control.
Why bother with the vinnyfab stuff. Did you see the price? And then did you see the price when you switch to 304SS?
No thanks.
Yes, and the price is the same as every other high-quality mainstream manifold that I've looked at so not sure what you are attempting to imply? to answer your question as to why bother with it, its the only full vband manifold I've found that supports a G35-1050 and has an option for the 60mm turbo smart wastegate and lifetime warranty against cracking.
that’s a big, high flowing turbine housing though Howard, even for 600 whp (~80 lbs/min compressor flow), more than the EFR 80mm 1.45 A/R turbine
you have to factor that in, not a direct correlation to a tighter A/R wrt creep
for 1/2 to 1 mile speed runs it should work ok though since response is not really a priority over PR given the intended straight-line WOT application.
Yes, and the price is the same as every other high-quality mainstream manifold that I've looked at so not sure what you are attempting to imply? to answer your question as to why bother with it, its the only full vband manifold I've found that supports a G35-1050 and has an option for the 60mm turbo smart wastegate and lifetime warranty against cracking.
My 3 rotor cost the same as that, but with 321ss. My point is just that it seems overpriced.
My 3 rotor cost the same as that, but with 321ss. My point is just that it seems overpriced.
By all means, I'm open to suggestions, simply in my experience every custom fabricator that lve reached out to that has a good reputation quotes roughly the same price for a similar 2-rotor manifold, I've just come to expect 1200-1400 dollars for a quality 2 rotor SS mani.
By all means, I'm open to suggestions, simply in my experience every custom fabricator that lve reached out to that has a good reputation quotes roughly the same price for a similar 2-rotor manifold, I've just come to expect 1200-1400 dollars for a quality 2 rotor SS mani.
I don't want to be overly harsh about it, the price isn't terrible as for good fab work you do pay for the years of experience a good fabricator has. My advice (note this is from someone actively wasting money to build a sequential twin setup that likely won't outperform an 8734, if I ever get it to work), but if I was doing something standard single turbo I'd just go with turblown. It's tired and true. They just got a big load of FD cast manifolds completed. Call them, discuss, get a firm understanding of the timeline, and don't give money in advance until they are ready to ship. They get super backed up, and thats where the problems risk starting.
I don't want to be overly harsh about it, the price isn't terrible as for good fab work you do pay for the years of experience a good fabricator has. My advice (note this is from someone actively wasting money to build a sequential twin setup that likely won't outperform an 8734, if I ever get it to work), but if I was doing something standard single turbo I'd just go with turblown. It's tired and true. They just got a big load of FD cast manifolds completed. Call them, discuss, get a firm understanding of the timeline, and don't give money in advance until they are ready to ship. They get super backed up, and thats where the problems risk starting.
When I first got my FD Turblown was my first go-to, they make a good product that I have no issue with, but for my car I've long since passed them, especially with their inventory issues as you mentioned. Like I said I'm always open to different options and right now I'm looking for a vband manifold that can accept a single 60mm wastegate (neither of which turblown offers), and it can be a high or low mount manifold, although one of the things I do really like about the Vinny Fab is the low profile mounting.
I haven’t used one personally. But what about artec? (Would need to call them to see when back in stock). The page is super light on details, but have more information about their other products (like what size the wastegate flange is).
I haven’t used one personally. But what about artec? (Would need to call them to see when back in stock). The page is super light on details, but have more information about their other products (like what size the wastegate flange is).
I appreciate the attempts to help but unfortunately, that is not a VBAND manifold, I do like the low-profile cast option though so I will for sure keep it in mind and see if they ever do another batch.
try this on for size: the G35 1.06 T4 housing is 1” longer from the flange face to the far side of the scroll than the the largest G35 1.21 V-band housing.
Which this T4 to V-band adapter is 1” long, so no added length over a T4 housing. Which the Garrett housing is likely going to be shorter than other T4 housings as well:
I just received one myself and it’s a quality piece. It seems like billet, but if it was welded and then machined they did a bang up job. All the transitions are perfect. If you don’t like the idea of a bolted flange/gasket in there then get somebody to weld it on. If it were me I’d extend the divider up closer to the v-band to keep the pulses as separated and going straight into the turbine housing as possible to minimize them crossing over and interfering with each other. That’s one of the things I don’t like about the vinnyfab and other V-band manifolds.
as per the Ghostbusters movie; don’t cross the streams …
edit: site says it fits a Garrett G40 in an FD, you’ll have plenty of room, assuming it comes back in stock soon.
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try this on for size: the G35 1.06 T4 housing is 1” longer from the flange face to the far side of the scroll than the the largest G35 1.21 V-band housing.
Which this T4 to V-band adapter is 1” long, so no added length over a T4 housing. Which the Garrett housing is likely going to be shorter than other T4 housings as well:
I just received one myself and it’s a quality piece. It seems like billet, but if it was welded and then machined they did a bang up job. All the transitions are perfect. If you don’t like the idea of a bolted flange/gasket in there then get somebody to weld it on. If it were me I’d extend the divider up closer to the v-band to keep the pulses as separated and going straight into the turbine housing as possible to minimize them crossing over and interfering with each other. That’s one of the things I don’t like about the vinnyfab and other V-band manifolds.
as per the Ghostbusters movie; don’t cross the streams …
edit: site says it fits a Garrett G40 in an FD, you’ll have plenty of room, assuming it comes back in stock soon.
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Funny enough I was actually considering doing this exact thing already, at least with my current manifold which is just a standard T4, its definitely something to consider when looking at mani's, the only thing would just be having to wing it on turbo fitment with some of the options out there.
In regards to the Artec manifold, can anyone speak to the effectiveness of the new gen 50mm Turbosmart wastegate vs the 60mm? I've seen the Artec manifold before but had disregarded it due to the 50mm wastegate limitation (is the 60mm vastly overkill in this situation or could the 50mm still present some boost control issues with it being a single wastegate setup?). Anyway I appreciate @TwinCharged RX7 reminding me about the manifold and @TeamRX8 bringing up a good point about welding a vband flange on which vastly expands potential options.
EDIT: I was also trying to stay away from cast manifolds for heat retention reasons (and weight although this one is very compact) does anyone know what material Artec cast their manifolds with?
EDIT 2: It looks like they are utilizing 347SS which makes sense since its cast.
So I sh*t you guys not, Artec just announced a vband version of their manifold 6 days ago on their Instagram lol, couldn't be more perfect timing. So it honestly appears that now with the divided flange vband manifold offering from Artec, that it is the perfect manifold for what I'm looking for, cast stainless for less than the price of the Vinny Fab stainless option with much better wastegate runner design and divided runners as well. The only thing for me would be the 50mm wastegate vs the 60mm but if anyone here has experience with a 50mm being sufficient in a non-recirc setup please share, obviously Artec feels the 50mm is sufficient for most setups.
perhaps you should back up a step or two and be more specific on what you’re trying to achieve and the other various details.
Not really necessary, I know what I want to achieve and what style of setup I want, it's just been finding a quality product that fits everything I'm looking for (500HP goal, vband flange, large bore single wastegate, stainless, low mount setup). I have been browsing for the 4 years I've owned my FD and honestly, the new Artec manifold is the closest is the best option I've found, now just trying to get one is the issue. I just prefer to reach out to the community to get input on a product before jumping on it hence why I came here asking about opinions regarding a few manifolds from more knowledgeable people than me and got some good information to consider.
