PP 13B Turbo
I know there are a few of these projects underway, but I'm wondering if anyone has some pics and hopefully video of a completed engine. Also I'm stuck on designing the intake manifold so if anyone can help with that I'd appreciate it alot. Thanks everyone.
|
we're already talking, but im sure people have some good ideas on here.
|
I guess outside of zander and myself there really isn't any interest in a P-Port turbo 13B. I figured that you race guys would be all over this.
|
theres Deslow as well, dont forget he has his build in the fabrication section.
|
dude there are a lot of PP turbo....lots in puerto rico run in the 6 sec....
remember that you timing and such will be crucial..I am not sure how it is set up since i have been mostly PP NA myself............. if you decide to run a TB style IDA then mani is easy..just make a plenum style box to encase TB and run to turbo....you can almost copy a blown through carb set up i would think... just my 2 cents |
I've seen some interesting designs for P-port intake plenum. i wonder how air intake to each rotor is effected due to the difference in the distance between the runners? I would imagine that this would be a bigger issue on something with a 20B more so that a 13B , but it would also effect the design of the intake as well correct?
|
Originally Posted by Slevin_FD
(Post 9401007)
I've seen some interesting designs for P-port intake plenum. i wonder how air intake to each rotor is effected due to the difference in the distance between the runners? I would imagine that this would be a bigger issue on something with a 20B more so that a 13B , but it would also effect the design of the intake as well correct?
|
plenums are more prevelant in turbo apps....but design will affect torque/hp range of course
most important thing to remember is overlap is fantastic for NA apps, but on turbo will affect your range of power....maybe a bigger turbo is better for this application..? not too sure about this... |
this is a 13pp turbo using xtreme rotaries pp inlet kit... theres heaps of videos of that car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-AEv-ksOYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN_Ci...e=channel_page http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...7/Image004.jpg http://image-cache.boostcruising.com...4226496697.jpg |
I like it
|
Originally Posted by ziig
(Post 9401212)
plenums are more prevelant in turbo apps....but design will affect torque/hp range of course
most important thing to remember is overlap is fantastic for NA apps, but on turbo will affect your range of power....maybe a bigger turbo is better for this application..? not too sure about this... you need a very big exhaust housing to take advantage of a peripheral port. borg warners s400 series have the 1.32 a/r housing, which would be a very good match for a p-port. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Chaotic_FC
(Post 9403195)
you need a very big exhaust housing to take advantage of a peripheral port.
borg warners s400 series have the 1.32 a/r housing, which would be a very good match for a p-port. A couple of guys over here run PP Turbos and semi PP, here is a pic of a 13B PP running a T51R with a 1.00 AR housing. remember AR is the ratio revalant to the Turbine wheel not a distance measurement. He has run a 10.7 at 0.8 BAR on a shakedown run so far. |
Originally Posted by blitzboy
(Post 9404983)
Have you built any PP turbo engines dude, or do you just like to chat on here :lol:.?
Do you have any more pics or any videos of that car? |
Originally Posted by ziig
(Post 9391226)
dude there are a lot of PP turbo....lots in puerto rico run in the 6 sec....
remember that you timing and such will be crucial..I am not sure how it is set up since i have been mostly PP NA myself............. if you decide to run a TB style IDA then mani is easy..just make a plenum style box to encase TB and run to turbo....you can almost copy a blown through carb set up i would think... just my 2 cents |
Originally Posted by ultimatejay
(Post 9405318)
Lots of pports running in the 6 seconds? There's not alot of any rotaries running in the 6 seconds let alone pports. You can count them on one hand.
|
Originally Posted by KNONFS
(Post 9405441)
Not only that, but out of all of the PP + Turbo engine setup, the only one that is still using that combination is "El Duke". All of the other ones, switch back to the non PP setup.
|
Originally Posted by KNONFS
(Post 9405441)
Not only that, but out of all of the PP + Turbo engine setup, the only one that is still using that combination is "El Duke". All of the other ones, switch back to the non PP setup.
|
it seems to me that alot of guys are running PP or Semi PP in both Austraila and Puerto Rico, I may be wrong on alot...
but from what I can tell there are still a few....let me ask this then....are guys going away due to the use of turbos which dont really like overlap? or are they seeing just as much power from a bridge? It seems to me that since a PP NA makes more power per cc than a bridge or SP that it would be equally true for a turboed PP...of course I havent taken into considertion overlap.... but making all things equal..ie turbo size boost and injectors etc. would the PP be more HP anyway? again this is my opinion...i may very well be wrong..it wont be my first time...my whole life unitll now was dedicated to building PP NA race cars....just now tinkering with any turbo stuff |
well, there is a 13bppt that layed down over 1300rwhp, so that should answer any questions about power potential; over 1000 hp per liter.
|
right......that makes sense to me...hmm but what do i know..lol
|
check out grs-motorsports.com thers alot in the 7s i would say not so sure about the 6s. theres alot of fast puerto rican cars here.
|
Originally Posted by ziig
(Post 9406009)
right......that makes sense to me...hmm but what do i know..lol
|
Originally Posted by Chaotic_FC
(Post 9405460)
well, most of them are running semi-pp.
Originally Posted by PvillKnight7
(Post 9405529)
El Duke wasn't looking to good at Pan Am. :P
Originally Posted by Chaotic_FC
(Post 9405979)
well, there is a 13bppt that layed down over 1300rwhp, so that should answer any questions about power potential; over 1000 hp per liter.
|
I will be running a GT4202R with a 1.0 Tial housing..
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t/DSC_0094.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t/DSC_0095.jpg http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t/DSC_0096.jpg |
^^^^^^ 13 bt stock? i doubt it...maybe Big bridge D which in therory is basically closse to PP in terms of overlap
I am thinking that a PP can and has and will make goobs of HP ....even if it is at higher rpm.. it means a stronger shaft set up and some tweaks but why not do it.... i have had a NA PP run 11000rpm with out any damage or turned bearings....on a stock shaft now that may be a fluke but i have also run NA PP 10500rpm all day in caribbean heat waves and they last all season long If i can have that durablity on stock internals..(minus carbon seals) a dont see a PPT being any worse Of course durablity is only one variable....there is tuning and timing etc. which again with a good after market ecu is doable..... as rpm goes up airflow becomes so violent that overlap should be the least of the issues....( just like with valves..how much closed is a valve VS open at higher rpm? neither really its just as open as it is closed...vurtual float..) as long as a turbo can sustain air flow pumpablity the engine will continue to make power..also VE must be sustained to ensure engine efficiency......all of this will either make it work great or loss power but this is also true with any port config....not so? |
nice engine VEST RACING
|
Run your stock shaft turbo PP to 11k under boost and see what happens...
|
Originally Posted by Trots*88TII-AE*
(Post 9406775)
Run your stock shaft turbo PP to 11k under boost and see what happens...
|
Chaotic_FC -
It doesn't matter what ports you are using.. but i have read somewhere that mazda balanced the shafts to 9000rpm (i could be wrong - I read it in a sae technical paper somwhere?) Power around 700hp mark is where they start to bend. I have seen a methanol 13b bp turbo pushed to 930hp with dowels and ceramic seals however that motor only lasted a couple of runs. From your build thread it's not going to be a race motor so I wouldn't worry too much about pushing it to the limit with your set up, depending on the power band of your setup 8000rpm to 8500rpm should be enough to make you happy and a safe limit for the bearings and seals from wearing out rapidly. |
Originally Posted by series3
(Post 9406930)
Chaotic_FC -
It doesn't matter what ports you are using.. but i have read somewhere that mazda balanced the shafts to 9000rpm (i could be wrong - I read it in a sae technical paper somwhere?) Power around 700hp mark is where they start to bend. I have seen a methanol 13b bp turbo pushed to 930hp with dowels and ceramic seals however that motor only lasted a couple of runs. From your build thread it's not going to be a race motor so I wouldn't worry too much about pushing it to the limit with your set up, depending on the power band of your setup 8000rpm to 8500rpm should be enough to make you happy and a safe limit for the bearings and seals from wearing out rapidly. |
Originally Posted by Trots*88TII-AE*
(Post 9406775)
Run your stock shaft turbo PP to 11k under boost and see what happens...
What stock shaft??? :lol::lol: |
Originally Posted by series3
(Post 9406930)
Chaotic_FC -
It doesn't matter what ports you are using.. but i have read somewhere that mazda balanced the shafts to 9000rpm (i could be wrong - I read it in a sae technical paper somwhere?) Power around 700hp mark is where they start to bend. I have seen a methanol 13b bp turbo pushed to 930hp with dowels and ceramic seals however that motor only lasted a couple of runs. From your build thread it's not going to be a race motor so I wouldn't worry too much about pushing it to the limit with your set up, depending on the power band of your setup 8000rpm to 8500rpm should be enough to make you happy and a safe limit for the bearings and seals from wearing out rapidly. :) Chris |
I dont know what you guys are on about? I ran my PP NA (NOT TURBO) to 11000 and had no issues with my shaft/....rebuild for next year and ran all year..
we usually shift at 9800 with a start cut seinz gearbox....with just 200 rpm drop in every gear so that means 9800 constantly all day long..not no 1/4 mile one off...raod course in trinidad and tobago..jamaca, puerto rico, guyana , barbadoes......all year long. from island to island... so if you guys are breaking shafts at 9000 something seems wrong....the only issue I ever have run into is bearing spin usually due to imbalance....or wrong internal match up...not rpm...of course this being said I will say that there is of course a point at which harmonics will come into play and cause issues... |
Originally Posted by ziig
(Post 9408681)
I dont know what you guys are on about? I ran my PP NA (NOT TURBO) to 11000 and had no issues with my shaft/....rebuild for next year and ran all year..
we usually shift at 9800 with a start cut seinz gearbox....with just 200 rpm drop in every gear so that means 9800 constantly all day long..not no 1/4 mile one off...raod course in trinidad and tobago..jamaca, puerto rico, guyana , barbadoes......all year long. from island to island... so if you guys are breaking shafts at 9000 something seems wrong....the only issue I ever have run into is bearing spin usually due to imbalance....or wrong internal match up...not rpm...of course this being said I will say that there is of course a point at which harmonics will come into play and cause issues... i believe thats because your setup was NA. |
i can see tht to be true Chaotic FC......as i said my whole time has been NA, jus getting to learn turbos...lol
i will get it though |
My comment wasn't directed towards your ungodly beautiful engine vest. I'm saying that there is a big difference in combustion pressures that come in to play at very high rpm's when you go turbo as opposed to N/A. Just for a small example (that may not be relevant, it seems to be to me though) check out this compression ratio calculator. With FD rotors at 18 lbs of boost, the effective compression ratio is 20:1 (or nearly 300 psi of pressure BEFORE combustion factors in), compared to even the Renesis rotors @ 10:1, tell me that doesn't make a difference when revving the snot out of it.
|
looks like a lot of invested. how much hp do you have?
|
|
Originally Posted by darkphantom
(Post 9476055)
thats only a semi-pp too! thats how extreme this kind of porting is with a turbo. hence why im doing it :icon_tup::icon_tup::icon_tup: |
hope you can handle that racecar sound. loud as hell! & dont even let me mention the gas mileage. and few can tune pp13b's it isnt easy AS YOU THINK
btw if your really serious about a PP 13b i would of advise you to go for a gt47 or bigger. reason being is the power on a pp doesnt start till after 3500-4000rpm. and it starts dying close to 10,000rpm which is perfect for a big turbo |
Originally Posted by Trots*88TII-AE*
(Post 9465455)
My comment wasn't directed towards your ungodly beautiful engine vest. I'm saying that there is a big difference in combustion pressures that come in to play at very high rpm's when you go turbo as opposed to N/A. Just for a small example (that may not be relevant, it seems to be to me though) check out this compression ratio calculator. With FD rotors at 18 lbs of boost, the effective compression ratio is 20:1 (or nearly 300 psi of pressure BEFORE combustion factors in), compared to even the Renesis rotors @ 10:1, tell me that doesn't make a difference when revving the snot out of it.
|
Wow that engine looks amazing!
|
Originally Posted by zaridar
(Post 9476567)
300 psi isn't shit compared to pressures in the chamber after combustion.
Originally Posted by zaridar
(Post 9476567)
However forced induction doesn't really create as much more wear and tear as you think.
Originally Posted by zaridar
(Post 9476567)
yes forced induction will degrade your engine faster i agree.
Originally Posted by zaridar
(Post 9476567)
it mostly allows the combustion event to last longer, with more air fuel mixture, so the engnie is gererating torque for a longer period of time which makes more HP since HP is a measure of torque/factor of time. but raising the redline will kill the engine much faster... especially on a piston engine.
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands