Picture Request: Injector Dynamics installed
10-26-09, 10:11 AM
#3
I was also interesed in this. Scotty305, was that the only modification u had to do(shortened the bracket). to fit the 1000cc. Does anybody have pics of the 2000cc injectors installed. Are they a different dimension? Or will they fix just like the 1000cc?
thanks Justin
thanks Justin
10-26-09, 10:48 AM
#4
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The ID2000's come with adapters (fixed to the injector, will not leak!) to drop in. I put a few sets into FD's without any issues. Will try to get some pictures up this afternoon.
10-26-09, 11:15 AM
#5
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good news these injectors can be installed no probs to existing aftermarket rails out there.
Im currently running 4x1680cc with the KGParts rails, Ultimately I want to run 2 bar boost so may think of upgrading to ID2000s
Im currently running 4x1680cc with the KGParts rails, Ultimately I want to run 2 bar boost so may think of upgrading to ID2000s
10-26-09, 03:53 PM
#7
That is exactly how mine seat! See the bottom part of the injector, where the silver is showing, that part needs to be farther down. I am going to modify my rails so they seat as far down as they possibly go so there is no spray pattern difflection.
I have Sard fuel rails, running 6ea. of the 1000cc's and xcessive LIM ceramichromed with the inside coated with teflon.
I have Sard fuel rails, running 6ea. of the 1000cc's and xcessive LIM ceramichromed with the inside coated with teflon.
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10-26-09, 05:10 PM
#8
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Hmm... that is on a stock LIM. The injector sits in just as a stock one would. Here's a comparison pic showing the tip length of denso style (sorry, don't have the stock side feed) vs. ID with denso donut. The difference in tip extension is minimal. However, this is in use with stock LIM with the diffusers. Unfortunately I don't have an xessive here for comparison. Are you using with denso donuts or the green bottom o-rings and xessive alum inserts?
10-26-09, 07:34 PM
#9
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DAMN, that engine makes those IDs look HOT!!
Oh Yeah, Baby!! Looking under the yella fuel-to-noise converter's bonnet after this many months away is almost as much fun as getting nudie pictures from my Chick while I was on deployment !! 
Keep 'em coming Aaron!
Keep 'em coming Aaron!
10-27-09, 10:20 AM
#11
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Just set them up as saturated drive (zero in current setting) and input the battery comp table that is provided with the injectors. They come with dead times from 43.5psi to 130psi for the ID2000's..
here's the datasheet:
here's the datasheet:
10-27-09, 05:23 PM
#14
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Yeah the 725 primary/2000 2ndary combo is pretty tasty, especially for FD's with PFC's since the primaries are small enough to control without tuning with lag times (BAD!) and the 2000's are linear enough to have a silky smooth transition..
10-27-09, 09:35 PM
#17
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I can sum it up in layman's terms from reading the ID website, positive lag is a compensation factor at different voltages and manifold pressures to compensate for the opening/closing time of the injector. It essentially adds open time to your injector map in ms to compensate for that "lag" time of opening and closing.
negative lag takes away some injector ms time from your current map, meaning at every given point (including 100% duty cycle) it's not actually running at that duty cycle, but actually lower. The reason for doing this is because at idle, if the PFC and possibly other EMS's cannot input a low enough ms value for the injector timing on big primary injectors to run lean enough, the negative lag time allows you to reduce this minimum open time so that you get a better idle. However, you do not get the full flow (or even a consistent & predictable change of rate in flow based on DC) for the rest of its operation.
Edit: Looking back at your post, I think you already knew most of the things I just wrote, but either way it's good for people to know.
negative lag takes away some injector ms time from your current map, meaning at every given point (including 100% duty cycle) it's not actually running at that duty cycle, but actually lower. The reason for doing this is because at idle, if the PFC and possibly other EMS's cannot input a low enough ms value for the injector timing on big primary injectors to run lean enough, the negative lag time allows you to reduce this minimum open time so that you get a better idle. However, you do not get the full flow (or even a consistent & predictable change of rate in flow based on DC) for the rest of its operation.
Edit: Looking back at your post, I think you already knew most of the things I just wrote, but either way it's good for people to know.
10-28-09, 09:39 AM
#18
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850's are pretty rough, Injector dynamics have been awsome. We have build at least 7 maybe even 10 cars with these injectors and they are the way to go.
Tom93r1 has been running the four 850's and has had a hell of a time getting then to run properly at low pulse width. We have run id1k's in the primary spot with no issue running very low like 1.5ms and getting a nice cruise and idle.
Tom93r1 has been running the four 850's and has had a hell of a time getting then to run properly at low pulse width. We have run id1k's in the primary spot with no issue running very low like 1.5ms and getting a nice cruise and idle.
10-28-09, 10:57 AM
#19
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First off, tuning with dead times (lag times, off times, battery offset, etc. whatever term makes you feel most comfortable..) is the WRONG way to tune a motor. These values are specific to each injector and should be measured with proper equipment (not an oscilliscope!) to determine how much fuel is actually flowing through the injector at a given pulswidth. When the ECU tells the injector to open, time is wasted charging the coil and opening and closing it and not flowing as much as it theoretically should.
With negative lag times, the injector would be opening very quickly and take a longer time to close, so that it would flow for a longer period of time than the given pulsewidth. I have only seen an actual zero lag or negative lag on POS hacked up injectors, never really happens with any injectors readily available.
You are basically lying to the ECU telling it that the injector stays open past the signal time when in reality almost all injectors flow less than the given pulsewidth. So all of the ECU's corrections to the fueling will be highly incorrect. So for a given MAP, air temp, and engine temp change, the ECU will use the lag time in its calculations for the needed change in fueling, and it will be WRONG. Not cool!
If anybody wants to learn more and will be attending the PRI show, you should come to the free seminar with Paul Yaw from Injector Dynamics and with Motec on "Understanding Your Fuel Injector."
With negative lag times, the injector would be opening very quickly and take a longer time to close, so that it would flow for a longer period of time than the given pulsewidth. I have only seen an actual zero lag or negative lag on POS hacked up injectors, never really happens with any injectors readily available.
You are basically lying to the ECU telling it that the injector stays open past the signal time when in reality almost all injectors flow less than the given pulsewidth. So all of the ECU's corrections to the fueling will be highly incorrect. So for a given MAP, air temp, and engine temp change, the ECU will use the lag time in its calculations for the needed change in fueling, and it will be WRONG. Not cool!
If anybody wants to learn more and will be attending the PRI show, you should come to the free seminar with Paul Yaw from Injector Dynamics and with Motec on "Understanding Your Fuel Injector."
10-28-09, 05:42 PM
#20
Rotary Enthusiast
I agree everybody on this site should go to the PRI shoe in Orlando , i went 2007-2008 and i was amazed at the available knowledge, at seminars. the best ive ever seen!
10-31-09, 11:25 AM
#22
Few questions about injectors
Excuse the noobness of my questions about these injectors:
Are the 725s a direct drop in to the stock primary rail?
Since the 2000s are high impedance, this eliminates the need for resistors, correct? I am running a Power FC. I understand that I would need an aftermarket secondary rail to run the 2000s.
Lastly, is a 550/2000 setup too much of a difference in injector sizing, or does it matter at all?
I am looking to make about 430-450 or so, and I am looking at several injector options at the moment. I am not a fan of running resistors and I am looking at the FJO driver option as well.
Appreciate the input.
Charlie
Are the 725s a direct drop in to the stock primary rail?
Since the 2000s are high impedance, this eliminates the need for resistors, correct? I am running a Power FC. I understand that I would need an aftermarket secondary rail to run the 2000s.
Lastly, is a 550/2000 setup too much of a difference in injector sizing, or does it matter at all?
I am looking to make about 430-450 or so, and I am looking at several injector options at the moment. I am not a fan of running resistors and I am looking at the FJO driver option as well.
Appreciate the input.
Charlie
10-31-09, 02:37 PM
#23
Hmm... that is on a stock LIM. The injector sits in just as a stock one would. Here's a comparison pic showing the tip length of denso style (sorry, don't have the stock side feed) vs. ID with denso donut. The difference in tip extension is minimal. However, this is in use with stock LIM with the diffusers. Unfortunately I don't have an xessive here for comparison. Are you using with denso donuts or the green bottom o-rings and xessive alum inserts?
10-31-09, 11:23 PM
#24
When I purchased my Xcessive fuel rail I asked them what they recommended for installing top-feed injectors in their LIM. They sent four rubber spacers which are apparently OEM parts used for the injectors in the FC3S. They also mentioned that the injector holes in the XS LIM are slightly smaller than the OEM FD3S LIM because they wanted a tighter fit with these rubber FC3S injector spacers. The fit is great, they are the thick black spacers in the attached photo, I used them instead of the green lower o-rings that were supplied with the ID1000 injectors.
11-01-09, 12:09 PM
#25
When I purchased my Xcessive fuel rail I asked them what they recommended for installing top-feed injectors in their LIM. They sent four rubber spacers which are apparently OEM parts used for the injectors in the FC3S. They also mentioned that the injector holes in the XS LIM are slightly smaller than the OEM FD3S LIM because they wanted a tighter fit with these rubber FC3S injector spacers. The fit is great, they are the thick black spacers in the attached photo, I used them instead of the green lower o-rings that were supplied with the ID1000 injectors.