I have a PFS SMIC. Do I need to replace this with a FMIC if I go single?

Thanks,

 

I depends, but it will heat soak faster with a larger single turbo. Go with a FMIC or M2 large.

 

If your not plannig to run more boost than your running with the stock turbo (15-17PSI is possible), the single turbo should actually create less heat than the stock turbos. A FMIC will certainly be more efficient but you don't have to get one just because you going single turbo. I used a PFS IC for quite a while with a T78, I now have a big M2. FMIC's have certain advantage but when your running tight road courses in the middle of a TX summer you need that radiator out front not the IC adding heat. I have run my SMIC 7 against similiar setup RX7's with FMIC's, there was no noticeble HP difference. In fact I pulled them more often than not. Obviously this is not very scientific, there are to many other variables to consider. My point is the performance difference between FMIC and a good SMIC are not nearly as big as some would lead you to believe.

 

Good question. I also have a PFS IC. I plan to go single VERY SHORTLY!! I am not going big (T78) I will probably go TO4e or RX6. I think the my present IC will be adequate since I will not run over 17 or 18 psi.

 

Adam S used to run 10's on a stock mount IC, the thing ive found, or figured, is that in drag racing, there is only so much an IC can heat up in 10 seconds, that PFS IC is a POS, as with any stock mount IC ( IMHO), they all heat soak since they are above the point which the radiator's air comes into the engine bay. In my opinion, you dont have to necessarily buy a front mount, but buy a large stock mount at least, that PFS intercooler is like 8 years old in design, is small as crap, and doesnt lower air temps nearly as much as the others. Yes, adam S used to run that PFS IC, but if you notice, alot of turbo drag cars run no intercooler at all, partly because of the use of NOS, and partly because in 10 seconds, the intercooler will hardly come into effect, now road racing is different.....point being, if you are simply a street racer, go with a bigger stock mount, or better a front mount, all that mumbo jumbo on cooling is pure rx7 list crap, noone actually does studies, everyone just listens to others and repeats. So many people i know drive a car with the stock radiator, front mounted IC, and single turbo, and have no problems at all.
Rob
93 base.

 

Whoa, finally someone admits this...
GReddy FMIC all the way...


-Ted

 

Ok, I am a member at this club in the D/FW area http://www.motorsportranch.com I invite any FMIC FD to come down July-August and run just one 20 minute session at speed (that means max 1:30 avg lap time). If you can do it without over-heating, your day is free and I will even buy dinner, don't make it? you pay session fees and buy dinner. I think Steve Kahn made about four laps before he had to abort due to over heating.
I am serious about my offer but trust me you won't make it.
In cool weather on the street yeah you won't have a problem but 90-100 degree day on a tight road course? not a chance. Use a little common sense, you have a car that runs hot to begin with, then you restrict air flow and heat the air up with a big intercooler in front of the radiator and you think thats going to make it work better?

 

Front-mount IC
Custom large double-pass radiator mounted "correctly"
Double Spal electric fans
Appropriate airflow shields
Stock turbos
Stock boost
No problem.



-Ted

 

No problem? You need to be much more specific, do you race it in 105F days or just put around town with no AC? I have run 13 PSI all day long on a 105F day on a very tight road course (data logging with Haltech) my max temp was 235. This track is notorious for frying engines and brakes, many cars have had problems out here that tell me they never had problems elsewhere. I have done a lot of modifications to the cooling system in order to be able to do this, I also have AC IMO it is not a luxury down here.

I can run hard all day long in the TX heat on one of the most demanding road courses in the country and then drive home in air conditioned comfort, can you? If you say yes, come down and prove it, otherwise its just talk.

My original message was that a FMIC will provide slightly cooler air but they are not for everyone. If you are a drag racer and/or live up North and are only concerned with punching it once and a while then a FMIC is definitely the way to go. If you live in a high temperature climate, like to run AC and still drive your car hard or like to road race then a SMIC would IMO be a better choice for you. Everyone talks about heat soak but most of what your seeing is the intake runners heating up because there is very little cool air flowing through them at idle, this happens on a FMIC also. Once you start moving these temperatures drop very quickly even on a SMIC.
My own road and track comparisons with FMIC RX7's showed a 10-15 degree advantage compared to my big M2. This was done driving the same streets and tracks at the same time and then comparing data log results. At some points the temperatures were almost identical but under acceleration the FMIC definately has an advantage.

 

my point really is that the PFS IC is a piece of junk compared to some of the M2 and pettit intercoolers, i totally agree with eric about street/drag racing with a FMIC, its better, you dont have to worry about overheating, funny though, i actually experianced lower temps with my radiator placed more upright, and the apexi FMIC, designed to let air through to the radiator....
Rob

 

FC3S, 13B-REW engine, stock FC3S turbo, Haltech, Thunderhill Raceway, 103+F degree ambient, 115+F degree track temps...we thought we blew the motor up cause the water temp and oil temp went up to 250F and STAYED THERE.&nbsp Spearco 2-180 core in front with the STOCK FC3S radiator.&nbsp All we did was change it to our custom double-pass radiator, and that dropped water temps down to 190F and oil temps doesn to 180F.

Sure, but I don't feel the NEED to have AC.&nbsp I have AC in my car, but it doesn't run.&nbsp I've been through 105F Sacramento summers and 110F Las Vegas summers - I still don't feel the NEED to have AC.&nbsp I am broke right now; I've been laid off since 5/31/01.&nbsp If I find the time and the money to go down there, I would.

That's bullshit.&nbsp The SMIC and radiator design was a compromise in design by Mazda.&nbsp Even Mazda knew they screwed up with revisions on the '96 and later models of the FD, which didn't make it into the U.S. SMIC upgrades are a waste of money; if I were to spend that kinda cash for an upgrade intercooler, it'll go up in front.&nbsp The stock FD radiator is a joke; the stock location for the FD radiator is a joke.&nbsp You seen all the "big power" FD's in Japan?&nbsp They upright everything in the front nose...

That's a really absurd comment to make.&nbsp Everyone should know the entire car will heatsoak just sitting there.


Any comment on the radiator type and position?



-Ted

 

The stock mount intercoolers don't work for drag racing in summer, for sure. My M2 large heat soaked crazily while staging. Drag racers need water intercoolers for the very reasons VTECThis stated above.

Road course...well, the M2 large worked well for me in the past, but you need to be moving really fast before it's useful. It is a compromise, like RETed said.

My HKS 013 FMIC can't hack it. 65'F day at Thunderhill and the water temperature wouldn't level out.

(MazdaComp radiator in all cases.)

The FD plain doesn't have enough frontal area for a compromise-free setup.

 

RETed,

comments such as:

and:

Tell me that you and I are comming from two very different places. I don't think I could convince you that the sky is blue, let alone the benefits of a SMIC. I don't have the time or inclination to maintain a dialog when it degrads like this one has.

Good luck with your hot car and your job search.

Kind regards,



Eric