Boostn7

OK, so what's the reason? motors coming apart from too much power???

I hate to break the news to you, but so far side ports are better....they have gone quicker and faster !!!
WHY ??? now that's the question that sparked this debate.
Why we don't see de-tuned PP-turbo motors running side by side ?

JD

Boostn7

this happened back in 1998-99 :-) good old days..

JD

RICE RACING

Its this kind of attitude that will get this thread locked too, do you want that?

I did not think so

The truth is staring you in the face and your answering your own questions, if you have no self imposed boost pressure limit then the +5% extra power a PP will give over a full house BP is neither here nor there, same for the 15% power differential to goos street ported engine........ And lets not forget that you **** up any one element in the heavier ported engine and you wont even get the gains possible through the porting. You know being an old head like me how many times you have seen this ! Hence you get street ports making 900bhp and some boys with bridges making the same power (not more) on the same boost !

Boostn7

Hehe......that's not fair:-)


Agree 100%
You'll see more loss then gain sometimes!!!

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

any development team ever try adding those good ole values like pistons engines uses for timing?
i know its kind of counter productive ( just like carbing rotarys :-P ).
or would the shear RPM of the rotary be to much for a cam/valve setup?
just a thought...

RETed

This is the kinda...stuff...that gets your foot in your mouth.

JD did this about 10 years ago and with the STOCK ECU...on an FC.

Still think any "nobody" can claim this?


-Ted

Rhode_Dog

Here is a P ported/turbocharged engine that someone could buy and "test".

http://www.racingbeat.com/resultset....tNumber=Engine

turboR1

[QUOTE=RETed]This is the kinda...stuff...that gets your foot in your mouth.

JD did this about 10 years ago and with the STOCK ECU...on an FC.

Still think any "nobody" can claim this?


you missed my point and your way off topic. what does having a 10 sec car having anything to do with knowing whether or not a PP turbo works better then a side port.

10 years ago yea thats a great acomplishment congrats. JD is the man when it comes to that, even did it on stock twins. that proved many wrong right there..good for him

but it is 10 years later now, building a 10 sec RX is pretty easy I think. and how much farther has he come from that 10 sec pass 10 years ago???????????????????

ur using him having a 10 sec car as evidence of him knowing what he is doing when it comes to PP motors, sorry thats not enough proof for me.. for you that might be... to each is own.

Nihilanthic

Peripherial porting is just bumping up the VE curve and trading total flow for velocity. Its not typical to do this much for a boosted engine unless youre doing top end drag racing but hey, if you want to, why not?

Duh, you can turbo a PP engine just like any other. But it will spool late because the VE% curve is higher, and youre most likely going to be using a big turbo anyway if youre going to bother to do, so this would most likely be best for drag racing. Tractability of that kind of powerband would most likely be craptacular for anything on the street and even road racing Id be surprised, but Im sure it oculd be done.

As far as making a 10 second rx-7, you need 416 whp with traction to get a 2800 lbs car to run a 10.9. Thats not hard. Getting more power or less weight isnt exactly difficult.

The real challenge will be in tuning it, getting it to idle, and putting the power down. You'd also prolly do well to get a strong stat. gear and e-shaft (and well make sure your rotors are balanced, good seals, blah blah blah) to rev high enough to take full advantage of the porting youre doing.

As far as a drivetrain, I'd say do what the big boys do and get a built automatic with a slip stall converter so you can leave the line under boost. If youre talking about doing this for racing then expect to need some short *** gears and a BUILT rear end and dog engagement... and one hell of a suspension setup.

Unless of course this is for a dyno queen, then go get some 18" dubs so it spools up from higher load and put stickers everywhere

Boostn7

Yes, building a 10sec RX is much easier now then it was 10 years ago....all you have to do is duplicate setups which have been proven by others....
order the right turbo kit, ECU, fuel system, clutch..etc...but you still have to go out there and get your 10sec RX to RUN 10's.

This is not about me or any of my cars.....this is about you guys proving the proof or examples of turbo-PP cars making xxxx hp or running x.xx numbers !!!
You or your brother have yet to mention what kinda power levels you have your turbo-pp engine at.

Side ports are still on top as far as 2 rotor or 3 rotor hp but you're ignoring that fact.
I do understand the fact that these engines are reaching their physical limits but I'm sure many are addressing that as well:-)

It's easy to see how on paper the turbo-Port is the obviuous answer but in the real world things are much different.

You think I'm against a turbo-PP 13Bmotor making 1000+hp or a turbo-PP 3 rotor making 1500+hp ??? HELL NO.

JD

fdracer

not saying a pp won't make good power, but honestly a big street port with a big turbo and lots of boost will make more power than the motor can handle anyway. any gains in flow that a pp will give, will also be given up by the loss in combustion efficiency. it's pretty narrow minded to think that a pp will automatically be a better choice no matter what, because the reality is that it is a give and take situation. plus you guys should realize that turbo engines make really good power from the exhaust flow. look at the sport compact drag cars and you'll see the trend the past few years have been to give up some intake flow to get more exhaust flow.

BNA_ELLIS

Exhaust flow is very important on a PP port.

turboR1

So what is the most a side port 2 rotor has made from boost alone no juice and at what psi? A number you can back up and not from someone you dont know.

fdracer

wtf? why does the side port side have to back up anything when the pp side just argues from conjecture? we already know what a sp engine can do from guys like adam s., abel, ari, dee, carl martin, carlos montano, jose vidal, etc. let's see what the pp side can bring to the table.

RETed

You can't even read what I wrote and then you tell me I missed the point?
Hmmm...you started to insult JD on his accomplishments and then you tell me I'm OT?
Boy, I love your sense of reality...


Guess you missed the part where I said *FC*...


-Ted

turboR1

LOL. I never insulted JD or his accomplishments. I simply said that his 10 sec car really holds no value in this debate so it shouldnt be brought up. Im sure he feels the same way. We are comparing turbo Peri ports VS side ports and which makes the most power lb for lb. Whether or not he went 10's with an "FC" ten years ago means nothing here plus we are talking about enough power to put you in the 7 sec range so yes that would be off topic here.

Now I understand why these threads get closed and why the people who know what they are talking about dont even bother to respond. Cant even have a normal debate to compare notes without having the idoits throw there 2 cents in.. Another good thread down the drain..

Boostn7

A daily driven 10sec RX is still not very common to see today now imagine going back almost a decade !!!

Forget all that....
Individual accomplishments is what drives others to push further with these engines and not calling it quits.

Other thread was closed for no apparent reason and hopefully this one will continue and we all will benefit from it one way or another.

Name calling is not needed and the thread will continue with you or not!

JD

Jay7 Nyc

iTrader: (3)

Is there anyone on this forum who has a BP or PP turbo setup with dyno sheets to post so we can compare? Wonder if anyone from pistonsvsrotor will come and discuss this topic.. I personally know a few Ricans that are running Street port turbo setups, when 1-3 yrs back they were running Semi-PP, PP and BP setups..

z8cw

That is interesting...the Ricans were always cutting edge....wish we could get some inside scoop on this.

enzo250

Yeah this forum has all the info you want... Enjoy...

rrussell

This is s good thread! Thought I would share a pic of Abels car engine from two years ago.

z8cw

Another surprise for me. The primary injectors are in the stock postion. I thought they were there for drivability and for top end you mount injector as far away as you can from the combustion chamber.

CW

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

It aint going to happen!

Rafaelito's car had a BP + small PP back when he was using the webbers, his best time at the time was a 7.6; I don't know if his 7.4 (when he switched to EFI) was on the same motor, or if his new car is sporting the same combination.

I do know that some of the 3/4 chassis starlets, DO run at least a small pport.

RX794

I'm not taking away from those accomplishments with Rafaelito's car, BUT alot of people seem to forget that Rafaelito's car, and some of the cars that you're mentioning are NOT AT THE NHRA LEGAL WEIGHT!!, let's slap the NHRA weight requirements on those cars and then see what ET and MPH results you get(Therefore showing that they're not making as much HP as you think), I can bet you it won't be as fast as the times that you're mentioning.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Ohhh but you are WRONG!

http://www.nhraimport.com/2001/event...sults/pro.html

So tell me, if him and those cars that don't meet the NHRA weight requirements, how come they are allowed to race on the NHRA events?

It is now a misconception that the PR cars are underweight, the only ones that are under weight (and probably because there is no class for those on NHRA) are the NA + Nitrous cars