Need input on fast spooling turbo
 

I was wondering how much would you paid for a turbo that spool faster than a ball bearing turbo and it boost 1 lb. at idle? I think it spool 2k-3k rpm faster than ball bearing turbo. Please let me know what think?

I don't really know what to make of this.

I know I'm a little crazy but what if there's a turbo that does it? How much would you be willing to paid for like a gt42 that gets full boost faster 2-3k rpm than a gt42r?

Is this like: "How much is Alien technology worth?" What you are talking about is a radical technology jump which would make small turbos obsolete and lag a thing of the past. You have an idea that you would care to share or is this pie in the sky thinking?

1psi of boost at idle on a gt42? hahahaha! you better idle at lik 3k and somehow have it under a load at all times. :)

What are you talking about?! Yea I will agree, you are crazy in the head, as this question is really :bash: :rolleyes:

Three wheel turbo? Third wheel driven by engine oil pressure.

Yes my friend I'm crazy. :noyes: If someone that could do the impossible what would the turbo worth? Please keep bashing me cause I'm loving it.

It's alot simpler than you think. You'll be surprise how it's done.

So make a GT42R turbo spool FULL BOOST to 31 lbs at 3200 rpms all turbo, NO NITROUS, NO Twin charged supercharger/turbo setup, No antilag off line etc.......please let us know, we arent talking wimpy boost levels here, if you run a 42R, you are running big boost to be in that turbos efficiency range anway

I'm not saying that you would get full boost 31lb at 3200 rpm but there's a way to make it spool faster than a ball bearing. All I want to know if there's a turbo that does spool 1lb. at idle and spool alot faster than a ballbearing what do you think it's worth? I can't get into the details but all I want to know if it'e worth an investment.

i remember hearing about a turbo that had an accessory clutch that was belt driven off idle to help spool it up and give better low end response, once the engine RPMs started to kick up the clutch is released to let the exhaust kick in.

no idea if what you are implying is related to this idea but i would like to hear this radical idea.. i do hope you realize you open yourself to serious ridicule here though.

Is it a factory 12AT turbo bolted into a Full-house 20B PP?

That would probably make fullboost at idle! and then die in its arse by 200rpm off idle

James isn't pulling your leg guys. We are currently developing a turbo with these qualities for the Rx7 specifically. We are working with a company who has over 25 years of turbo manufacturing and repair experience. The turbos when in moderate sizes will have no lag at all and will hold a small amount of boost at idle and will reach higher levels of boost almost instantly.

I already have seen the development of these turbos for H-D motorcycles, and the end result of a well tuned machine with this setup. Stay tuned to development for Rx-7's. James is prototyping one for later release!

I'm sorry I can't go into details on how this is possible, but the technology isn't patented yet.

Josh

I been here for a long time and I wouldn't my reputation on a line if it's not proven. Like coxxoc I could give details about it until the inventor of the turbo lets me.

I meant I couldn't give any details until it's patented.

Well then you need to contact SAE and NASA, because currently ALL FREE TURBINES LAG.

Sorry, I spent all of my money on college where I learned about things like inertia. However, I wish you the best of luck with your scam.

lol remember when talking about scam I'm not from St.Louis ;) As for money I'm the last person to scam anyone cause I have more money than your whole family combine and only 31 years old.:D

James and i have talked about this for awhile and told me how it works. is this the impossible?not from the details he has told me! this will be badd ass turbo and like he said very simple .please dont pm me about this for i gave my word not to talk about this and i refuse to. for you mr. Evil Aviator try to open you mind alittle bit and not be so fast to put your own head up your own ass you asure you it smells like shit! james is a very reputable person here. trust what he is saying guys. james THE answer your question same answer i said before a shit load of money!!!!!

I like to know what is this turbo worth if it's proven? Like a gt42?

Here is video proof of a vehicle that this system has been equipped on:

http://myweb.cableone.net/joshcox86/...rbocharger.mpg

This is on a Dodge ram dually. Notice the boost when it is idling. 3-4lbs sound good when your normally in vacuum? Mash it, and within a very short time it is over 30lbs of boost They feel a lot like a supercharger, but without the disadvantages.

I completely understand being weary of the promises of this turbo. I know when I was first approached, it thought it was impossible. I'm a believer now and James and I are ready to put in some time to develop the perfect setup for Rx-7's with the inventor. After Rx-7's our next stop is Supra.

For the person with the NASA comment. This turbo is currently being evaluated by the US Army for use on their vehicles. It really is amazing. I am confident this will bring a new era in turbo performance.

We just need to know market interest so that we can properly invest in this project.

well josh thats badd ass!! have you got a new clutch for the hd yet lol

This is not really new technology, if its what I think it is. It has been in use for quite some time, on diesels and porsche's. There have also been numerous threads on variable geometry turbos.

However, that would be B.A. if there was one that was made affordable (I.E. $1500-ish), and also properly sized for our engines.

if it'll be a very simple turbo swap without reworking all the plumbing, i'll pay double the amount of a comparable bb turbo--2-3k extra. but if you have this technology, why limit yourself to aftermarket support for rx7's and other street cars? i'd love to see it done, but i don't understand your approach. i'm sure you can make BANK working for professional racing series and bigger trucking corporations. or patent it for bmw, mitsubishi, subaru, etc. who turbo charge some of their high end vehicles.

if it's what you really say it is, i'm sure you don't have to worry about the marketting details. it'll sell itself once proven in the races.

if it has some drawbacks you aren't disclosing at this point, then it's a different story.

evil aviator, while being an ass, does have a point. you can't just make up energy. if it's some sort of supercharger@idle/turbo@load hybrid, my interest would wane depending on the installation complexity and weight being added. if it's variable geometry turbo, good luck getting it to work on a rotary. i mean it sincerely. bottomline is this, if proven in a race (which won't be hard if what yo're saying is 80% true), i'll pay 2-3k extra for it.

AHh, yes, the variable vane technology...not that new. TDI jetta's and the diesal trucks like Ford 6.4L use this.
The turbo is worth NOTHING until its proven and reliable....the reason you get flamed is because you pre-maturely started posting about this "reinventing the wheel" turbo when there is no actual product that we know of on a RX7 that has proven track record, and most people like to rebadge technology to fit their own business plan, free enterprise works well doesnt it.
Anyway, start selling us the product with technical and real world information and then you will have some credibility with THIS venture.

I was thinking variable vain turbine also.

conventional variable vane material won't last long in the typical exhaust temp's of a rotary. it's been used for YEARS in diesel trucks and porsche finally got it to work on their 911's a year ago after spending who knows how much in the r&d. getting it to work on a rotary would be even more expensive.

I think to market something like this your prices would have to be inline with what is available on the market today, so comparable to high end ball bearing turbos.

Can you give us a more specific explanation of what this invention will do? For instance, how will it affect different areas of the power band, compared to a BB turbo? How will highway cruising be affected by this? Are there dyno charts or some more info on the H-D motorcycles they were developed on?

I understand you just want to gauge interest, but if nobody believes you then that's a waste of your time as well.

It's going to be awhile for the testing to get the result. I hope it works like it did on a Harley,Porshe,hummer,diesel dodge truck.Maybe rx7,supra,rb25;)

The best person to talk to about this is Coxxoc on this forum cause he did some test and dyno run with the Harley. I'm just testing it on my FD and hopefully supra.

You are just jealous because St. Louis has the best automotive scammers in the country, lol. Well, if not the best, then the most, anyway.

I seriously doubt it. But if you do, then you would do well to spend it on some college courses in English composition and physics. Sorry, but it is really difficult to take you seriously as you currently represent yourself.

Somebody is bullshitting you. Your attorney should research this situation with your local PTAC before you commit any time or money.

Oh, I can already tell you how the gauging of interest will go on this forum. You will have all kinds of broke people with no engineering background raving about this new and wonderous product. Then, you will have a few sticks in the mud like me who have the education and industry experience to realize that it's not going to work as well as advertised. When all is said and done, even if the product is a minor success, hardly anybody on this forum is going to buy it because they are not willing or able to pay for it. If you are serious about this project, I think you would find more tangible interest on a Porsche forum where you will find people who are willing to pay $10K for a fuel cell.

Ref: See forum threads for the Camden supercharger, Tesla bladeless disk turbine, RPI stratified charge engines, and just about every other major technical project.

VATN/VNT, VIGV/VVT, and VGT/VTG all have lag if exhaust driven. The only way to eliminate lag is to mechanically or hydraulically (incompressible) link the compressor to a driver.

thread jack
 

[/QUOTE]Oh, I can already tell you how the gauging of interest will go on this forum. You will have all kinds of broke people with no engineering background raving about this new and wonderous product. [/QUOTE]

typical of any forum, but this one is especially bad, most of the members can not even afford a journal bearing turbo let alone the rest of the equipment to install it so on the whole gauging interest part of this thread, I can tell you you will recieve about 30 pm's with the question, can you hold it till next payday for me, you then get about 40 pm's from other forum members asking you the specs that you already listed in the advertisement, and in the end you might get one person that is serious :p:


[/QUOTE]VATN/VNT, VIGV/VVT, and VGT/VTG all have lag if exhaust driven. The only way to eliminate lag is to mechanically or hydraulically (incompressible) link the compressor to a driver.[/QUOTE]


now I have often wondered why not design a turbo that uses hydraulic oil to prespool? it seems to me that a large portion of your lag would be gone, and by sizing the oil pump against the hydraulic motor you should be able to even get boost right off of idle, similiar to a positive displacement supercharger

would you have to much pumping loss from the hydraulics themselves? it might not reclaim as much exhasut energy, and there would be parasitic losses from the hydraulic pump itself, but it seems ot me a simpler proposition than building a V.V.T. turbo that can handle the heat , or maybe I just had to much coffee this morning, and my brain is on the fritz.

kenn

edit: the reason I say simpler, is its just a reconfiguration of a known technology, not quite as hard as getting a super duper material called "unobtainium" that would have all of the tensile qualities, as well as heat resisting, as well as light blah, blah blah that would be required to make a V.V.T. work on a rotary, and yeah I thought about the whole iconel route, do not think it would work well for the V.V.T. vanes, but I could be wrong.

kenn

You do realize that Diesels don't make any vacuum right? Even stock they are at about 1psi, at idle. The stock VVT turbos won't hold up to a rotary, unless you have some new fantastic materials it's not going to last long.

Read the vacuum in diesel engines stuff here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifold_vacuum

Oh, and boosting at idle can only do great things for mileage.

LOL, hes right ^^

How about on porshe and Harley engine? They're getting the same boost at idle too. Contact coxxoc cause he's the one that's involve on the Harley.

That's is why I'm going to see if it really works on a rotary engine, I seen it work on a harley.

We have done it on two Harley's. They are on a Softail and a VROD. We put turbo kits together and are about to goto final production on them. Right now we are addressing the concern you speak of, reliability. The VROD is being ridden daily and will be at the track in two weeks.

I can give you dyno charts and such after that time.

For highway cruise, all vehicles with this turbo setup on run about 4 psi at a steady cruise, but reach peak boost very quickly (lagless on the bikes). The video with the dodge above has a turbo of a size similar to a gt42. The operator does not floor the truck, but rather eases into the throttle. If he floored it, it would hit the boost level faster.

We don't want to promise the world here, but it should be exciting to see what becomes of this.

Josh

When Harleys have 2000*f egt's I'll listen to you.

Seriously, you must be using some fantastic crap, because the materials they are using for the VVT has too low of a melting point, the rotary will eat it quickly. Why would one want to cruise around at 4psi, at CRUISE I want MILEAGE, do I want to be able to step on it and have boost right away? Sure! In the mean time I will live with lag for mileage.

It doesn't matter I'm going to test it out anyway. You're just jealous that the experiment turbo is going into my FD than yours. :D

I don't have an FD, and before you say blah blah blah can't afford it, I really don't care, I think before you start comparing apples to oranges here you should know they are different. Maybe a little more research is in order.... If i really want to I will go pull a turbo off a F350 in the junk yard, for like 500 bucks, and have this mystical set up.

Time will tell my friend :bigthumb: If the harley is succesful than I think of trying it on a 2JZ, I got a donor for the supra.

Also as of now the project turbo is a gt40, I want to know what turbo would you recommend beside the gt40?

I suspect there will be major problems with "cruising at 4 psi". Assuming you have no detonation, and can tune for the same AFR, the engine simply will make more torque than it would under vacuum. Basically, for this to work usefully, you would have to drastically change the gearing in the car(taller gears, to utilise this low end power for cruise). Essentially you would just move all the stable operation points(cruise settings) lower in the rpm band.

Since you guys aren't denying VVT style technology, i guess that means the cat's out of the bag?

How about some real facts about the product? Why not just come clean with what you're doing.

From what I can gather you are modifying existing turbos and swapping out turbine housings with something you are making.

Why gather interest if absolutely nothing is revealed about this product?

-Kevin

1. not tested on my Fd yet
2.patent pending
3.too busy

I'm not here to sell the turbo(not yet) just to gather interest. This turbo is going to be test edover and over before being on the market so make it atleast 6 month or so for results.

I'm all for innovative ideas, and good luck with it. It's definitely not easy to qualify a turbo, and I hope that the person dealing with it understands this. Hopefully he knows what goes into qualification of a shelf turbo, and can get it to work with a hot burning rotary. I am very skeptical until I see any facts, data or ideas though.

Kevin

Who knows, some of us would probably be able to offer some useful input and advice on the product too.

This is a great idea, I need to gather everything about a rotary engine to present it to him so he could make it to our specification. All I know is that it tested on a piston and diesel engine with success. Since I'm a rotary guyI wanted to test it on a rotary before others. Any ideas would be appreciated.