Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

Figured I would post my latest pic of the turbo installed. I have the A-spec T3 gt35r kit with the FP3586R on it.

94touringFD

iTrader: (30)

This is exactly what I've been wanting to see, lol. My friend makes ~750whp in his civic hatch with a B18 and a 0.8X A/R T3 hotside. What A/R are you using, divided or undivided? Are you going to use AI so you can turn the boost up?

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

1.06 hotside undivided and I have a coolingmist kit with two jets in the intake manifold.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

thanks for sharing. the Forced Performance GT3586 (Billet comp wheel) should be very interesting to evaluate on our rotaries.

since the wheel is 62 X 86 versus 62 X 82 it carries 7% more average area as well as it may have more effective ( ie vanes rather than a fat cast hub) area.

i look forward to your evaluation.

hc

arghx

iTrader: (3)

is this ball bearing?

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

Yes and dear as poison. Close to $2000USD. That said those compressors are meant to be based upon Holset extended tips, and are billet so the blades are really long with a small hub section. There are 2 models, with the smaller having an inducer that is only 58mm but has more flow than a normal gt3582r (61mm inducer).

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

Taken from their website:

This 62mm inlet / 86mm exducer HTA™ wheel extends mass flow well beyond 75 lb/min with observed power output in the 730+whp range on well prepared cars. This turbo is available with a variety of turbine housings, but using anything smaller than a .82 is stupid.

Only time will tell. As mentioned by Howard in another thread, we will see how well the turbine can keep up. I am hoping this will be an awesome street turbo with fast spool and good usable power all the way to redline.

The car needs an engine harness, front harness and igintion harness at the moment which are suppose to be in the mail now. I have to wire in the Kenne bell BAP, wideband, boost controller, FJO injector driver and then wire my fans back to stock because the previous owner had them running off the heater switch. After that I will reconnect the UIM and all the vaccum lines and it should be ready to turn over!

Zero R

iTrader: (1)

I think you will notice a drop in response when compared directly with the 35R compressor, you've increased the leverage of the compressor on the turbine. This doesn't mean it wont perform and perform well, just throwing that out there, I know when we've had the 62 billet wheel stuck on the 35R CHRA it definitely felt different, kind of "softer"

~S~

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

True, I dint expect the same response just more flow. I am really just trying to see what the max a t3 can do since so far 515whp is the most enzo could get out of the regular 35r t3. Does the billet 62 have the larger exducer like the 3586?

G's 3rd Gen

iTrader: (11)

Is your manifold undivided? Just wondering why that option? Because its a T3? G

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

It is undivided.

Long story short I bought the car and it came with the A-spec t3 35r kit. I originally sent the turbo to Forced performance for a HTA86 upgrade which is only 600.00. Come to find out the turbo was so bad it was not able to be rebuilt without a new center section.

Rather than selling the t3 kit and going t4 I was convinced that a t3 35r turbo can make more than the 515whp Enzo made with his brothers car when it had the t3 35r on it. (there is a whole thread on it somewhere).

I feel this is the best avaible t3 variant turbo out there and I know pistons motors are different than rotary but it has still made 804whp on a dynojet and 730whp on mustang dyno on Evos and the Sti makes over 700whp on it too which is rediculous for a t3.

dabigesii

iTrader: (4)

Any update with this?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

He is working through some issues right now, I have been helping him over PM a little.

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

To give a quick update the horsepower numbers are on my Sig. I did a compression test using a piston type tester with the valve removed and got 85-90 all three faces on the front and only 60psi on all three faces on the rear. I have been getting some advice from ARGHX on some issues. At this point the car starts up and idles good and drives fine but compression seems low as do he HP numbers so I'm at a cross roads as to wether I should see if the seals need to seat as the motor only has 600miles on it or as soon as I get a few bucks I'll rebuild the motor with 2mm rotors as I think the used 3mm rotors I got may be the reason for the even weal compression.

Thanks for the interest and ill try to keep this thread more current.

dabigesii

iTrader: (4)

Ok, thanks for the update. I hope the best for you in your outcome.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

the sig didn't show up for me in this thread. The numbers were

"17psi- 432whp pump/meth
23psi- 470whp pump/meth "

I have not seen the dyno sheet nor do I know the torque numbers. For the record, that's very close to what I expected with this turbo. Even Dynojets can all vary significantly so just because somebody broke 500 on a 35R doesn't mean your engine is underperforming. The numbers are equal to or higher than what you would expect from a regular old GT35R. The thing about those billet wheels is that they are really optimized for high boost levels. The 4 cylinders you see doing 600+ on these turbos are also running around 30 pounds of boost. If you want more power out of this turbo you will have to see if you can squeeze more boost out of it. The hotside may be the restriction here as we all suspected.
Based only on the symptoms I have heard so far, I am also skeptical of the compression test because all the faces were even on each rotor. Without a Mazda tester there are lots of factors that can affect the reading.

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

I couldn't agree more with having to run 30psi + boost on these turbos to make the big power. I will say that the car seemed to keep making power the more boost I ran but I had my PIM values maxed at 28psi so I kept the boost down below 26psi.

I do have an appointment next friday at the dealer and I did record the compression test from my phone so I can upload them to youtube if you don't mind checking them out, maybe my eyes didn't pick up on a bad face as it was moving really fast. I tried to email them to you but the files are too big for the phone to send.

I will post youtube links shortly.

Thanks again for the help.

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

I lost the magnet for one of the clamps for the spark plug wires so I couldn't get a torque reading which sucked but I was only using the dyno for the fine tuning as I street tuned most of the map. Also in the pick you will notice the Blitz boost controller was spiking then seemed like the stepping motor was going crazy so I either need to figure out how to fine tune the controller or just go manual. Ignore the A/F as it was a tail pipe reading that kept blowing out and I have a leak at the midpipe, I use my in car innovate gauge for tuning.



And a finished engine bay shot.

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

Here is one of the early pulls, the 406 was at 14 or 15psi and the 422 was 17psi with I believe a 12 split. I lowered it to 10 split with no change in knock and gained 10-15 whp. I ended up cutting the night short due to the meth spraying out of a bad tap job by the previous owner. I plugged the holes and tapped new locations since then.

Ignore the moron filming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSXesQtXBao

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

Front
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pghpN..._order&list=UL

Rear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dLsYhyafng

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

idle @950-1000rpms. I know I usually keep it around 850rpms but first time warming it up in over 4 months. You can see there is no fluctuation in vacuum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5DE1B1YS14

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure how your timing maps look but remember that just because knock didn't show up now doesn't mean it won't show up later when the weather or driving conditions change. You always have to make that judgment call of decreased safety margin vs increased power. The Power FC has no knock control. It's not a modern OEM engine management system like Evo/STi have. There is nothing to save you if something unpredictable happens.

Personally I run 15 split on big horsepower setups, which is similar to what Mazda uses on their OEM calibrations. I'm willing to give up the 10-15 horsepower (sometimes less than that) from having that extra safety margin in the trailing timing. This is primarily because most engine management systems for rotary engines do not have a useful knock control system. That's why the tunes that leave power on the table are the tunes that keep the engine together over the long haul. You have to keep asking yourself how much time, money, and frustration you are willing to risk in playing the numbers game.

Spiking and oscillation is usually a sign that the gain setting is too high. Try turning down the gain, which may require you to raise the "set" setting in the Blitz controller. On a Subaru you would get that same spiking and oscillation if your turbo dynamics values were too high.

For the compression test, did you have a charger hooked up to the battery for the second run? Honestly it sounds like your starter was turning slower on the second run. Here are the compensation tables for compression readings out of page C-10 of the workshop manual:



There is nothing obviously wrong in this video.

Indian

iTrader: (1)

excellent advise arghx

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

I believe I put the split back to 11 for now. I tuned in the cold so I figure if anything it will be better in warmer weather but maybe I am wrong as I'm still learning. I do run 1500cc of methanol progressivei from 13psi on. For now I keep the car on the 17psi which is running around 11.2 a/f. I am going to bring it to get tuned once I straighten everything out. The timing was conservative, I will post my map later.

I did not have a battery charger on it on the lower number, I will try the test with a charger on it this week and see. I didnt realize it made that much of a difference but like I said I'm still wet behind the ears with rotaries.

Once again thanks for all the help. Everyone seems very helpful on this forum compared to some I won't name.

Boxer2rotary

iTrader: (8)

Well I started it up today and drove it around. Car feels good. No cold start issue. After driving it around for 20-30min I stopped turned it off and it started right back up, turned it off and started 15min later and still started right up and took my buddy for a ride around the block and restarted it with no issues again so looks like no warm start issues so far. I will try driving around this week no boost and then redo the compression with a battery charger on the car and see what it looks like.