Intercooler Idea
#1
Intercooler Idea
I have been thiniking of a way to cool the intake air charge even more, I know this may be stupid and may not work, but it is just a thought.
OK here goes, you know how everyone removees there AC to save weight, well I was thinking of weldling extra end tanks on the sides of the intercooler, around 1" thick either side. NOw instead of running the refrigerant (sp) through the coil in the cabin, run it through either side of the IC. Then what you have is a chilled IC, with IAT maybe around 60 degrees.
I really have not thought this through all the way, I had the ac on while driving and gave it a brief thought. What do you guys think?
Also can you get too cold of an IAT?
OK here goes, you know how everyone removees there AC to save weight, well I was thinking of weldling extra end tanks on the sides of the intercooler, around 1" thick either side. NOw instead of running the refrigerant (sp) through the coil in the cabin, run it through either side of the IC. Then what you have is a chilled IC, with IAT maybe around 60 degrees.
I really have not thought this through all the way, I had the ac on while driving and gave it a brief thought. What do you guys think?
Also can you get too cold of an IAT?
#2
Mad Man
This is similar to the circle track Griffens that have oil coolers inside the radiator end tanks to act as a heat exchanger. They are in wide use, and work quite well. Carl
#3
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#4
Rotary Freak
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The idea definitely has merit. If you want to do this, the simplest way is probably to just use the AC evaporator as your intercooler. Reinforce the existing housing around it or make a custom one. If that system can knock incoming HVAC air down from 100 deg to around 50 deg, it should be able to create a similar temp delta in your intake air charge. I don't know why coolflow uses the extra step to convert to water -- it seems like wasted energy, space, weight, and $ -- but they must have their reasons.
I've kicked this around with a few friends, and the advantage here is that you can "pump" heat against the temp gradient, meaning you could theoretically create intake air temps lower than ambient. This would be a nice thing for folks in very hot climates.
I've kicked this around with a few friends, and the advantage here is that you can "pump" heat against the temp gradient, meaning you could theoretically create intake air temps lower than ambient. This would be a nice thing for folks in very hot climates.
#5
My grip with say water injection and other similar setups is you wil have extra weight and plumping in the car. ALso with the water injection you will at some point run out of water and just like going out on the track with a full tank of gas and coming in empty, the caharcterics of the car will differ with a full or empty load.
With my idea it will saty the same all the time. But yeah basically the the ac evaporator will now be apart of the IC. Hopefully I can try it out soon and let ou guys know how it is.
With my idea it will saty the same all the time. But yeah basically the the ac evaporator will now be apart of the IC. Hopefully I can try it out soon and let ou guys know how it is.
#6
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Originally Posted by eyecandy
I have been thiniking of a way to cool the intake air charge even more, I know this may be stupid and may not work, but it is just a thought.
Originally Posted by eyecandy
Also can you get too cold of an IAT?
#7
Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
It would work for a one-shot intercooler. It would not work for sustained used because the AC would cause more of a power drain on the engine than it would make up in cooling, and the AC could also not keep up with the heat rejection requierments of the engine.
And how would it cause a power drain??
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#8
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I had thought about this idea about a year ago... I was like of sweet I'll develope the idea then patend it... Then I read an article on the new lighting and it uses the AC condensor idea to cool the air. It says it can only be used for like 30 seconds or so.
-Edan
-Edan
#9
NorCal 7's Co-founder
Evil Aviator, do you know what the temp level of too cold is? I am currently working on an IC that will give you 34 degree intake temps no matter what your ambient temps are. I would love to explain more, but I'll be honest. I think someone here would take the idea and get it made and patented before I could. But I know the system works, it's an idea that has been used for about 40 years now.
Zach
Zach
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
i saw a car once at the local rotary shop that had that done. the owner of the shop said that the guy did it himself. it is a red third gen with a big single. just using the stock ac system he can pretty much run it continuously and sees intake temps down to around 30-40 degrees f. name of the shop is mazcare, just north of atl ga.
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Originally Posted by eyecandy
What do you mean a "one-shot" intercooler?
Originally Posted by eyecandy
And how would it cause a power drain??
Originally Posted by BoostedRex
Evil Aviator, do you know what the temp level of too cold is?
Originally Posted by BoostedRex
I would love to explain more, but I'll be honest. I think someone here would take the idea and get it made and patented before I could. But I know the system works, it's an idea that has been used for about 40 years now.
http://www.uspto.gov/
Originally Posted by modrx7
Then I read an article on the new lighting and it uses the AC condensor idea to cool the air. It says it can only be used for like 30 seconds or so.
http://www.classictruckstop.com/news...ews2003-1.html
#13
NorCal 7's Co-founder
Mod, you would probably freeze the water. I could be wrong, but that is what it seems like. I work with aircraft HVAC systems quite a bit and am pretty familiar with how easy liquids can freeze.
Evil Aviator, I searched the USPTO site you listed and what I am working with has nothing listed. I know that it is a patented device, but it has always been used for manufacturing of other products and never for my intended use. If you know of a shop that would be willing to do the actual build and R&D of the product I would gladly split the profits of a success 40%/60% in favor of the shop. I am just supplying the idea so I don't think that I deserve the bigger piece of the pie.
Zach
Evil Aviator, I searched the USPTO site you listed and what I am working with has nothing listed. I know that it is a patented device, but it has always been used for manufacturing of other products and never for my intended use. If you know of a shop that would be willing to do the actual build and R&D of the product I would gladly split the profits of a success 40%/60% in favor of the shop. I am just supplying the idea so I don't think that I deserve the bigger piece of the pie.
Zach
#15
Form follows function
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The air conditioning condensor would have to be place inside the liquid to air IC though right, and then this would be used to cool the water.
FWIW: This is not a new idea. I first saw these things 25 or 30 years ago and they worked very, very well--just as the ice water cooler does. Keep in mind that since the liquid will store considerable energy, or lack thereof, it will not be necessary to run the compressor during runs. I am currently fabricating one of these for my own FD.
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Originally Posted by BoostedRex
Evil Aviator, I searched the USPTO site you listed and what I am working with has nothing listed. I know that it is a patented device, but it has always been used for manufacturing of other products and never for my intended use. If you know of a shop that would be willing to do the actual build and R&D of the product I would gladly split the profits of a success 40%/60% in favor of the shop. I am just supplying the idea so I don't think that I deserve the bigger piece of the pie.
LOL, nice try on the 40/60. FYI you will probably only get about 1% of the profit, but free income for the rest of your life is always a good thing, no matter how small the percentage.
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Originally Posted by BoostedRex
Good call on the 1% thing. I read over my post and it did sound kinda funny to me. But I would like to pocket more than 1%.
Zach
Zach
#20
No it's not Turbo'd
Isn't there a reason for the heat exchanger !? To exchange heat with Ambient Air !? maybe I'm not undertsanding this right, but if you use the heat exchanger on the rad to flow freeon through to cool the IC , won't you need another heat exchanger to get rid of the heat you just generated by re-compressing the freeon !?
#22
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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My link on the first page is now old and doesnt work. Here is the new link...
http://www.coolflow.com/Intercooler/index.htm
They sell a/c intercoolers and explain it pretty well on thier site
I dont have any idea how well a a/c ic would work but I can tell ya that if you want to go liquid/air you need to use a real large heat exchanger. People that use a oil cooler and stuff for a heat exchanger will find its not adequate on something like a road course. When your exchanging heat from water into air you need 4x more air than water. This means that unless your heat exchanger is 4x larger than your IC core then your eventually going to build up heat in your IC. How much you build up just depends on how many BTU's of heat your having to pull out of your charge air and how much smaller the heat exchanger is versus the IC core.
I looked into a liquid/air and almost bought everything then I realized for it to work better than a air/air with extended periods of boost like highway runs I was going to need a heat exchanger basically the size of my radiator.
Stephen
http://www.coolflow.com/Intercooler/index.htm
They sell a/c intercoolers and explain it pretty well on thier site
I dont have any idea how well a a/c ic would work but I can tell ya that if you want to go liquid/air you need to use a real large heat exchanger. People that use a oil cooler and stuff for a heat exchanger will find its not adequate on something like a road course. When your exchanging heat from water into air you need 4x more air than water. This means that unless your heat exchanger is 4x larger than your IC core then your eventually going to build up heat in your IC. How much you build up just depends on how many BTU's of heat your having to pull out of your charge air and how much smaller the heat exchanger is versus the IC core.
I looked into a liquid/air and almost bought everything then I realized for it to work better than a air/air with extended periods of boost like highway runs I was going to need a heat exchanger basically the size of my radiator.
Stephen
Last edited by SPOautos; 12-13-04 at 04:22 PM.
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Hi, just sorted through this thread. I am in the process of fitting a PWR charge cooler system and i am going to try the following;
Using a heat exchanger made for the job, send the gas from the air-con sytem into it's core after it has left the air-con cooling rad, send the water from the c/c to flow over that core after it has left the c/c cooling rad.
I will have to see if i need to always have the air-con on, have switching system so main air-con is cut out of the loop until required?, see what power is gained/ lost when on the rolling road. If it turns out to be a no go then i will have a re-think CO 2.
All your views welcolm. Please note I live in the UK so not live on your site due to time diff. My e-mail is listed on this site but for easy ref its mgwr51@dsl.pipex.com
Regards John CLAYTON.
Using a heat exchanger made for the job, send the gas from the air-con sytem into it's core after it has left the air-con cooling rad, send the water from the c/c to flow over that core after it has left the c/c cooling rad.
I will have to see if i need to always have the air-con on, have switching system so main air-con is cut out of the loop until required?, see what power is gained/ lost when on the rolling road. If it turns out to be a no go then i will have a re-think CO 2.
All your views welcolm. Please note I live in the UK so not live on your site due to time diff. My e-mail is listed on this site but for easy ref its mgwr51@dsl.pipex.com
Regards John CLAYTON.