hello,

i'm in the middle of designing my own vmount kit for my 3rd gen and i've got my radiator sorted out and mounted. but now im measuring up for the intercooler/airbox setup. now im designing the system so that the only things that have to be changed are the turbo intake pipe and turbo to cooler pipe when i go single. now i've measure up the area and the biggest core i can fit is 220mm high, 430mm long and whatever thickness my budget allows (preferably 90mm or so). so my question (sorry for rambling on so much) is; will a core this big be suitable for a streetported motor running a garrett t04z hoping to make 300-350rwkw? all the other bits are done. the airbox will have a single 4" filter thats ted straight from the opening of the bumper also.

reason for asking is i rang a local company (PWR) and asked if a core that size would be suitable and they said no, but then i figure there is how many people making bulk power on SMIC round the world, why wouldnt that size core work on my setup? or are they just telling little white lies?

thanks in advance,
Brad.

 

nobody has any input?

 

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...tercoolers.htm

This should provide some better guidance. Keep in mind that these are all just loose swag guesses. Efficiencies and such are going to be based on your setup. Don't underestimate the importance of good ducting and you'll be well off.

:edit:

Based on my "back of the napkin" calculations, an IC the size you described will be very nearly perfect for your power goals using the chart I linked as guidance.

Again, just be sure to duct up.
Cheers.

 

I would look at 3.5"T x 12"H x 14"L as the smallest this should give you a CFM of close to what your motor will need. If you don't mind dropping a bit more flow step up to a 18" length. If you want a good amount of flow run 4.5" core. Usually the higher the flow the less the cooling but if you get a good core with good fin density it wont be too much of an issue.
I'm not sure why you can only run a 8" tall core, I've made countless v-mounts and all can easily fit a 11" core or larger. Heck I just fit a 11.5" core on a 20B car so you should have more room unless you have a turbo or something in the way. Not sure as to what your core manufacturers flow tests are done at but my guess is the core you chose is not much good over 420cfm. You're going to need at to look at a higher flowing core or it will be pointless. The turbo will be working to hard to make any power through that restriction. Hope that helps some.

~S~

 

yeah ducting will be good to say the least, here is a pic of the ducting for my radiator:
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/p...u/100_0908.jpg

and here is an example of how the intercooler will sit in the setup:


in my setup the bottom of the core of the IC will be sitting just on the top tank of the radiator (with some closed cell foam tape to seal the join).

basically there is no limit to how thick it can be but the height is limited to 220mm as thats the distance between the hood latch to the radiator top tank.

what is optimal cfm? how do i work out whats needed?

Thanks,
Brad.

 

well i think i may have found the answer to my problems:

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/aachart450.html

in particular part number A450160080
dimensions are:
4.50 thick; 16.00 long; 8.00 high; 1350 cfm; $398.00 Retail MSRP;

so when i get home from work i will dummy up something this size out of cardboard to see if it fits.

now i just have to hope they ship to AUS,
Brad.

ps please speak up if yous see any problems with doing this; thanks.

 

I am pretty sure that is a vertical flow intercooler, if it flows that much with that height. However, there's no reason why that wouldn't work, you would just have to run the tubing differently.

 

For the core you chose to fit the same dimensionally as the RE car pictured, it would read 4.5"t x 16"H x 8"L you want part numbers near, A450116140 or A450116180 if your going with a 4.5" core.
Or A350116140 or A350116180 in a 3.5" core. Hope that helps.

~S~

 

well i've had more of a think about this and spent a couple hours doing some (very simple haha) maths and looking at figures and Zero a core the size you reccommended originally (3.5"T x 12"H x 14"L) would have a flow rate of about 690 cfm, cost $400 (part # A350121140)

and so i've found a core that fits my dimensions and is about the same flow rate as that one:

dimensions: 4.5"T x 9.2"H x 14"L
flow: 675 cfm
cost: $328
part #: A450092140

now hopefully i have all this right and i will get to work on making my carboard intercooler 2morro after work. please throw any suggestions you's have in the ring guys as i'm new to this calculating cooler requirements business... and again, sorry for being so "trying"for lack of a better word haha,

thankyou
brad.

 

can anyone help me with the flow questions or at least point me in the directoin of somewhere to read up on how to calculate what flow rate i need etc.

Thanks;
Brad.

 

These are 2 good links:
http://bellintercoolers.com/pages/techFAQ.html
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...tercoolers.htm

There are many factors involved in picking the right sized IC. One of them is available space and packaging concerns. Pick enough CFM for you desired HP rating and then pick a size that fits the allotted space. Don't make it anymore complicated than that.

I will share one anecdote from my experience with a VMIC. I personally wouldn't go thicker than a 3.5" core. The IC (and radiator) cool the medium passing through it (air or water) by having air run through the fins. Most rads and ICs are designed to be mounted vertically so that air can pass through the cores. When you mount in a v-mount setup, the cores are mounted at somewhere around 15-25 degrees off horizontal. This creates a little bit of "inefficiency" IMO at getting air through b/c there will some some "reversion" in the V. A thicker core has the potential to make it harder for air to get through. So does a core with a high fin density.

Fin density = the amount of fins per square inch

If you look at the OEM Mazda radiator, it doesn't have a high fin density and its kinda thin. I understand this design was used b/c the radiator is mounted at around a 25 degree angle in stock configuration. The lower fin density makes it easier for air to pass through more quickly which results in better cooling - particularly at low speeds.


I use an old M2 Large / Sparco core setup in my Vmount.


Its probably too big for my needs since I run 99 twins and only aim to run about 320 RWHP but its a pretty decent fit overall. I've been thinking of going with a smaller IC to facilitate packaging of some other things I want to add and also to size it more appropriately to my power levels.

In my experience, ducting (airflow management) does help efficiency but isn't as critical as with a SMIC or FMIC setup.

 

well i measured the angles of my radiator and my mocked up my intercooler fitment and took some snaps also; radiator is 28 deb and IC is 41deg. Gracer7 - thats the reason i wanted so much angle on my core to help with airflow through it.

anyway heres a picture of the mock-up core whats everyones opinions? (the black painted areas are the end tanks and the outlets will just be 3" 45* bends coming off.:


and room for airbox and CAI feed:

 

maybe this thread needs to be moved to the tech section so i can get more help with this?

 

If you're going to run 3" inlet pipe run 2.75" outlet pipe. No need to run 3" on the IC discharge. The smaller diameter will help with flow on that side. Also things to help get air through the core better are good ducting as well as either bell mouthing with half round or using angle on the bars on the front to help direct air into the fins.



~S~

 

Take a look at this one

http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/s...dinrex/Engine/

 

Looks great IMO. Get 'er done.

My rad is positioned further back than yours limiting the angle I could use on the IC. We did this to give me some extra cushion up front for unforeseen circumstances.

Off topic - Do consider an idler pulley.

 

I noticed that no one has mentioned end-tanks.

why not?

 

Gracer - yer i am getting one from a local bearing shop

and it looks like i'll be getting this bad boy for xmas hopefully i can have it all done before the new year.. maybe

watch this space for pictures of the real deal.

Brad.

 

B/c you are usually at the mercy of whatever end tanks are available commercially. Unless you are a master fabricator, the cost/benefit beyond what is available starts to go downhill fast.

Feel free to share thoughts on end tank design though either on this thread or another. I always like to learn.

 

This is what I was referring to with regards to the idler pulley thing
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/here-what-happens-when-you-remove-airpump-810990/