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thanks Topolino, will input the calibrations and give them a spin. another forum member is sending a Delphi.
For the record Howard, I'm not trying to be difficult or anything, just pushing for the most accurate data. We all appreciate your willingness to help, especially since you seem to have already found the ultimate solution. Where are you spraying your WM? Before or after the sensors?
my AI nozzle is in my Greddy elbow. i use only Meth, no water, since 2003. obviously meth will be incontact with both the thermocouple and thermistor. i do know the thermocouple works fine w meth.
i am happy to report, thanks to Topolino, i found the Triumph calibrations, 15 in all, and have entered them as a custom calibration so assuming i currently have the Triumph sensor we should finally get accurate data.
Before we start seeing a bunch of new sensor comparison data, I thought it would be fun to show just how slow the stock sensor is. Weird log as I think the tuner and I were trying to trouble shoot some intermittent fuel/spark cuts. Anyway, stock sensor was approx. 6 seconds behind on reporting true IAT's.
here are the two sensors sent to me by a forum member. i have been running the black sensor. i recently inputted what are supposed to be the Triumph calibrations but the output is pretty much flatline. i swapped in the green sensor yesterday and will take it for a spin. i do note something on the tip of the sensor frame but the element and the two connecting wires look perfect. the green sensor has what appears to be the exact same black bulb-element and also the same orangeish connecting wires.
i received a GM/Delphi sensor a week ago and will try it next.
i am currently adding a Flex Fuel sensor and will be doing some work with small amounts (starting at a total of 20% Ethanol) of alcohol to my base fuel. i am not planning to add lots as i don't like what it does to the internals but am very interested in just a slice in relation to knock.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 03-19-21 at 12:10 PM.
i did get running w 20% ethanol today and found knock to be no different than with 10%. 15/16 psi, 39% tps to a bit over 6000. in the past knock maxxed arouond 30/35 at 575 rwhp. since i switched ecus (and also moved to Georgia) i have been getting slightly higher readings. the Link G4X Extreme is the latest in the Link/ViPEC family and i don't know if the internals have changed as to dicing the sensor output. it does report 16 readings per second V the ViPEC at 6. i doubt if that is the issue. i am running IRP's new knock sensor studs, again probably not the culprit. one item near front and center is the gas. i am buying from an Exxon station (93 of course) but who knows. actually i know someone who knows and will talk to him tomorrow. i have significantly decreased timing and am running a conservative afr.
the data from the green thermosensor is similar to the black. pretty flat line. i will swap in the Delphi shortly.
i did learn something however... i removed my air thermocouple from the turbo output and placed it next to my airfilter. it logged 115 F. (amb was 65)
i switched it to just behind my IC. at 15/16 psi 6000 rpm it read 186F!!! if your air filter is anywhere downstream of your IC exhaust stream you are sucking hot air. relocate it and your IAT will drop a bunch.
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 03-23-21 at 06:10 PM.
some more data for the geeks in us. I am running a thermocouple in the stock location. setup is the same as pictured except for i changed out the old t04s setup for an efr 8474 and heat wrapped the DP and mid pipe. the most heatsoak i generally see is at idle, i can get the sensor all the way up to ECT at idle. cruising is generally about ambient. this is a cx racing core custom fabricated by my friend and fabricator with good shrouding, 3" piping. I am running ~65% ethanol according to my content sensor.
log from 3-20 ambient temps are around 28c filter placement, hood is not vented
finally had an opportunity to install the Delphi a couple of days ago. the Link G4X Extreme does have the calibration for it and i was excited to see on startup that it agreed with my two IAT thermocouples. until i started the engine. prior to startup it was reading similar to the thermocouples... around 80 F. my only run with it so far was boost limited as i am testing a couple of items but it was approx 30 F behind the thermocouple. it also was pretty flatline. this was similar to the other two thermistors i tested. i had both of them close to my thermocouples prior to startup and then they were not very responsive. i tried numerous calibrations including one where you post various ohm #s and the corresponding temp.
i do realize that others have posted some logs that look closer to the reality and don't have an answer. i will be on the dyno shortly and will have further info.
Will these sensors work with, and improve readings with a Power FC? I'm looking at water injection, that should have an immediate impact on IATs, don't want to run lean all of a sudden
Will these sensors work with, and improve readings with a Power FC? I'm looking at water injection, that should have an immediate impact on IATs, don't want to run lean all of a sudden
for the thermocouple, provided the output voltage is clamped to the values the stock sensor would output per temp, it will be far more responsive but may require touching up the air temp fuel compensation. for the thermistors they would need to have the same resistance values as the stock sensor. as far as i know the PFC does not allow custom sensor calibration other than the MAP sensor.
I thought about it a bit more and the thermocouple may not even work on the PFC. the internal pull-up resistor is not adjustable as far as i know so i don't think you can use a voltage generating sensor there, if somebody has done it they can chime in and let us know what they did.
just looked at the video... the Rife sensor tracks the typical thermosensor but has 22 degrees higher peak. it is better but no where near reflecting the actual. after the run it lazily drops off. this tells you how responsive it is, as in actuality, as you close the throttle temps go vert down. ( just like they go up when you open the throttle) if it is slow on the way down it is slow on the way up.
as example, i looked at one of my (thermocouple) logs and have the following data:
at 2 minutes 54.302 seconds i was at 95.4 TPS
at 2 minutes 54.377 seconds i was at 67.9 TPS
during seven and one half HUNDRETHS of a second my IAT dropped 58.1 F
unless you run a thermocouple you will not know what your IAT is...
as to an earlier post re whether you can run a thermocouple w a PFC... i, and many others, were running EGT thermocouples in 2003. IAT thermocouple is no diff. you need a datalogit. you should already be using it to digitally log fuel pressure.
I was a little concerned it might be sticking down too far and interfere with the fuel rail or something but as you can see in the last pic, there is plenty of room.
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/159205146@N07/, on Flickr
Can anyone think of a reason why it wouldn't work? I thought maybe due to a difference of materials. I used anti-seize on it but it screwed in all the way, maybe a bit too easy lol. So I also used a lock washer. I guess I could probably leave that out as long as it's snug without it.
I was a little concerned it might be sticking down too far and interfere with the fuel rail or something but as you can see in the last pic, there is plenty of room. Screenshot_20221205_210703_Gallery by Eric Jausel, on Flickr
Can anyone think of a reason why it wouldn't work? I thought maybe due to a difference of materials. I used anti-seize on it but it screwed in all the way, maybe a bit too easy lol. So I also used a lock washer. I guess I could probably leave that out as long as it's snug without it.
I been debating doing the same as well, I have a spare haltech open tipped egt sitting in my tool box. would just need a module.
No, my car is torn apart for winter projects. I won't be able to try it until Spring probably, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. The tip of the sensor will be out into the airflow, and it doesn't look like it will hit anything under the UIM.
I ordered my amp from sensor connection, and will be using a haltech open tip egt probe I have
hopefully car should be running in a couple of weeks, I'm waiting on a pressure sensor and a nozzle for my ai system
I'll be using the Haltech TCA4 and The Sensor Connection thermocouples that Howard is using. I checked with both companies and they said it should work. So I would think yours will too.
I'm late to the party. So am I understanding this correctly that the old Triumph fast reacting sensor isn't fast reacting?
It is faster than the stock sensor though, right?
Any recommendations yet on something better that can also run with the stock ECU?
I'll be using the Haltech TCA4 and The Sensor Connection thermocouples that Howard is using. I checked with both companies and they said it should work. So I would think yours will too.
well I can't use the haltech 1/4", too thick for fitting and sensor connection looks to be a 1/2" longer compared to my 2.5" haltech probe so I had to order the 1/8" sensor connection air temp sensor. wish I ordered it at same time as I ordered amp 😒
03-06-21, 01:29 PM
Screenshot_20221205_210703_Gallery by Eric Jausel, on Flickr
20221205_182805 by Eric Jausel, on Flickr
20221205_184534 by Eric Jausel, on Flickr
20221205_184738 by Eric Jausel, on Flickr
