IGN1A coils vs OEM FD( back to back single turbo)
04-26-15, 03:57 PM
#1
IGN1A coils vs OEM FD( back to back single turbo)
This is customer supplied information. NGK r7420 11.5 plugs on both pulls, zero other changes( same dyno ). OEM FD coils broke up, and the IGN1A obviously did not. This was on PFC so both are in wasted spark. It runs our TDX61 system @ 14psi with AI. I have only seen one other dyno that was very similar. I figured a few might want to see this...
04-26-15, 05:09 PM
#3
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This is customer supplied information. NGK r7420 11.5 plugs on both pulls, zero other changes( same dyno ). OEM FD coils broke up, and the IGN1A obviously did not. This was on PFC so both are in wasted spark. It runs our TDX61 system @ 14psi with AI. I have only seen one other dyno that was very similar. I figured a few might want to see this...
the picture quality sucks.....cant see the numbers
04-28-15, 12:30 PM
#5
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05-03-15, 09:21 AM
#11
While I may agree, there is no reason to state it this way. This is supposed to be a forum of auto enthusiasts. Instead of berating, try giving a useful response please.
Yes. You could buy OEM ones. Or look at different one made by Mercury (or maybe someone else, who knows with all of the rebadging going on) One that has the flexibility to be ran however you want it to, smaller and more flexible in mounting locations. ANd puts out plenty of power with minimal dwell.
This is from a different thread:
Link to thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...992444/page10/
This is from a different thread:
These coils CAN be run with the stock ECU, we've done it before with zero issues, and it cleaned up idle and some revving inconsistencies on the two cars we've done it on. We've got a number of customers that purchased the coils before upgrading to a power FC and mentioned similar improvements. These are just far better tech than the stock 20 year old coils, with a HKS twin power bandaid. Are you realizing the full potential of the coils in high boost applications? No, but if you're on a stock ECU you're not increasing boost and they're quite happy at stock dwell times. So, yes there is some potential benefit, you can yank the stock coils out from under your UIM to improve airflow, clean up your engine bay, and change nothing when upgrading to an aftermarket ECU. The harness comes jumpered with a purple wire to run waste spark unless specifically requested (required for stock ECU and PFC), and can be switched to direct fire in minutes for other aftermarket ECU's... simply cut the purple jumper, and extend the included blue wire out to your 4th signal wire. Done and done. 
Link to thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...992444/page10/
Last edited by Monkman33; 05-03-15 at 09:24 AM.
05-03-15, 01:26 PM
#12
And to run them you still have to modify things. This is important to some people. Although, it is nice to know they can be run with the stock ecu. Again, the comparisons are not new vs. new that I've seen so it appears pretty pointless to say "wow, this coil is so great, it did X" when in reality not having a worn coil would do X just as well.
05-03-15, 09:46 PM
#13
And to run them you still have to modify things. This is important to some people. Although, it is nice to know they can be run with the stock ecu. Again, the comparisons are not new vs. new that I've seen so it appears pretty pointless to say "wow, this coil is so great, it did X" when in reality not having a worn coil would do X just as well.
Considering I have seen (with my own beady little eyes) a 20k mile ignition setup be improved upon with these coils. So I would say that is proof enough for me that these coils are better than the oem ones. Symptoms described were the same as above. smoother idle. no break up at higher rpm. Only change was coils.
If you are not looking to modify anything but want more power, you are in for a wake up call. Going back to brand new stock everything will only get you the power levels of a brand new stock vehicle. Unless that is your goal, there are far better and more effective ways to free up some ponies.
05-03-15, 10:16 PM
#14
Of course, and you can't say it wouldn't either, because you don't know. What I've seen with my own eyes is that with a proper heat range plug, the ignition system is almost never the problem unless it's on its way out. In which case, of course changing to ANYTHING not broken is going to improve the situation.
If you think OEM ignition systems are only adequate for stock power levels, you are in for a wake up call, and I wonder how all those cars, with higher than stock power levels fixed all their problems with new OEM replacement and not this upgrade.
But hey, you seem to think if you don't have an ignition upgrade you're stuck at stock power levels. There are far better and effective ways to free up some ponies, the ignition system is almost never it, assuming of course that it's working properly.
If you think OEM ignition systems are only adequate for stock power levels, you are in for a wake up call, and I wonder how all those cars, with higher than stock power levels fixed all their problems with new OEM replacement and not this upgrade.
But hey, you seem to think if you don't have an ignition upgrade you're stuck at stock power levels. There are far better and effective ways to free up some ponies, the ignition system is almost never it, assuming of course that it's working properly.
05-04-15, 12:05 PM
#15
Of course, and you can't say it wouldn't either, because you don't know. What I've seen with my own eyes is that with a proper heat range plug, the ignition system is almost never the problem unless it's on its way out. In which case, of course changing to ANYTHING not broken is going to improve the situation.
I also never said the ignition system would be a primary modification to 'free up some ponies' but nice attempt at using my own words against me. Ignition is secondary. If the combustion chamber conditions are not being utilized effectively by your current ignition, then you have a choice to make. I would look at common failure points first. After the easy/cheap items are eliminated, then I would look at upgrading.
But anyways, enough banter on this. Stock has its place. If you are running wasted spark, chances are, it will be sufficient for most applications. Direct Fire, not going to be using stock.
05-04-15, 05:54 PM
#16
And I've seen them were stock was. And I've seen them where broken stock wasn't and new stock was.
For some one complaining about words being put in their mouth you sure seem to not know what is coming out of your own.
If you want to play the "go back and read..." game, do it yourself. Post 2 of this thread. The OP of this thread can be summed up as, "this worn/broken part is worse than this brand new part". Is anyone really surprised? Hence, post 2.
For some one complaining about words being put in their mouth you sure seem to not know what is coming out of your own.
If you want to play the "go back and read..." game, do it yourself. Post 2 of this thread. The OP of this thread can be summed up as, "this worn/broken part is worse than this brand new part". Is anyone really surprised? Hence, post 2.
05-04-15, 08:32 PM
#17
So brand new stock everything (read as the word meaning all parts, as in whole car, as in zero aftermarket) would not be the power of a brand new stock fd?
I'm done with you. Enjoy your 'getting the last word' bs combined with made up scenarios of arguing semantics and topic change.
I have already agreed with you that the comparison was not a true brand new stock coil. I have agreed that stock coils will do fine for most situations unless one wishes to run direct fire. I have already agreed with you on many things. And yet you want to single me one and keep trying to twist words. You last post was just foolish.
Now drop it.
05-04-15, 09:34 PM
#18
I'm done with you. You're trying to save face by exploiting your own poor phrasing. I don't care that you've agreed with me, you said something dumb and I've pointed it out. Deal with it. Now drop it.
05-04-15, 10:57 PM
#20
I knew you'd say this. I can't help but wonder why you even bring it up in a thread about modified cars. After saying you need an aftermarket ignition because your car is modified. Or are you dumb enough to be claiming that a well functioning OEM ignition system isn't even adequate for a 100% stock car? Your phrasing is poor and of course I'm going to choose the meaning most relevant to the discussion at hand.
I'm done with you. You're trying to save face by exploiting your own poor phrasing. I don't care that you've agreed with me, you said something dumb and I've pointed it out. Deal with it. Now drop it.
I'm done with you. You're trying to save face by exploiting your own poor phrasing. I don't care that you've agreed with me, you said something dumb and I've pointed it out. Deal with it. Now drop it.
Are you retarded? Learn how to read. And considering most of your retorts take me out of context. And now you're making things up again. Go away.
05-07-15, 07:37 AM
#21
While I may agree, there is no reason to state it this way. This is supposed to be a forum of auto enthusiasts. Instead of berating, try giving a useful response please.
Yes. You could buy OEM ones. Or look at different one made by Mercury (or maybe someone else, who knows with all of the rebadging going on) One that has the flexibility to be ran however you want it to, smaller and more flexible in mounting locations. ANd puts out plenty of power with minimal dwell.
This is from a different thread:
Link to thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...992444/page10/
Yes. You could buy OEM ones. Or look at different one made by Mercury (or maybe someone else, who knows with all of the rebadging going on) One that has the flexibility to be ran however you want it to, smaller and more flexible in mounting locations. ANd puts out plenty of power with minimal dwell.
This is from a different thread:
Link to thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...992444/page10/
Your right. I do apologise. Can't help but get frustrated.
Should have been nicer.
05-07-15, 08:13 AM
#22
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I have the stock coils and a twin power, so does the majority of people in our area. We run anywhere from stock power levels to mid 400WHP on the stock twin power system. most are probably peaking at low 400WHP. We also run AI with our set ups.
The question is, is there a difference between A vrs. B when it comes to the dyno, and how much is that difference.
I find it irresponsible to show a used old non-sufficient set up vrs. a new set up and say the new set up is better. A new stock coil set up might be sufficient, I don't know.
It would be like saying the OEM apex seals aren't performing on this 100K mile engine, but our E&J seals in this brand new engine show higher compression.
Yet, E&J seals leave nasty chatter marks on engines, they are soft, and who knows about the longevitiy of them. I have seen 500WHP OEM seals with AI run 50K miles, broken down and the housings look new. I also see MANY OEM seals go for a very long time, many aftermarket seals not hit 10K miles. could be due to engine builder, or tune, or both. Not sure.
In order to have accurate data to make decisions from, you would need to test multiple units, multiple cars and do a null, alternative hypotheses to determine is one if in fact better performing than the other. On this forum I see a lot of single test points, and points compared to one another using different dyno's and in different conditions and we just say one is better than the other of one data point. I wouldn't make my decisions based off of that. There are some groups where the evidence is so overwhelming that we can definitely say there is a difference. This would apply to the EFR turbo's.
I am not saying the oem coils are better than IGN1A coils, I am just saying that we cannot conclude that new oem coils with a twin power is better or worse than new IGN1A coils ran in wasted spark mode or even direct fire for that matter. that is all. It also depends on what the user is using it for. Then you also have the reliability side of things. I know OEM has done the homework, has IGN1A coils been heat cycled as much on a rotary? I don't know.
The question is, is there a difference between A vrs. B when it comes to the dyno, and how much is that difference.
I find it irresponsible to show a used old non-sufficient set up vrs. a new set up and say the new set up is better. A new stock coil set up might be sufficient, I don't know.
It would be like saying the OEM apex seals aren't performing on this 100K mile engine, but our E&J seals in this brand new engine show higher compression.
Yet, E&J seals leave nasty chatter marks on engines, they are soft, and who knows about the longevitiy of them. I have seen 500WHP OEM seals with AI run 50K miles, broken down and the housings look new. I also see MANY OEM seals go for a very long time, many aftermarket seals not hit 10K miles. could be due to engine builder, or tune, or both. Not sure.
In order to have accurate data to make decisions from, you would need to test multiple units, multiple cars and do a null, alternative hypotheses to determine is one if in fact better performing than the other. On this forum I see a lot of single test points, and points compared to one another using different dyno's and in different conditions and we just say one is better than the other of one data point. I wouldn't make my decisions based off of that. There are some groups where the evidence is so overwhelming that we can definitely say there is a difference. This would apply to the EFR turbo's.
I am not saying the oem coils are better than IGN1A coils, I am just saying that we cannot conclude that new oem coils with a twin power is better or worse than new IGN1A coils ran in wasted spark mode or even direct fire for that matter. that is all. It also depends on what the user is using it for. Then you also have the reliability side of things. I know OEM has done the homework, has IGN1A coils been heat cycled as much on a rotary? I don't know.
05-07-15, 09:26 AM
#23
Some of you need to read this thread here. The IGN-1A coils provide a hotter spark and more duration than the oem coil at the same dwell settings. Duration is what's most important with rotarys and is based off the coils physical size. Basically larger coils take longer to fully discharge so the plug stays lite longer. Rotarys need the plugs to stay lite longer because of the long combustion chamber. Nothing beats the fc coil when it comes to duration however, they dont have much voltage output. The twin power only increases the voltage output.
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-as...hread-1035364/
https://www.rx7club.com/naturally-as...hread-1035364/
Last edited by t-von; 05-07-15 at 09:53 AM.
05-07-15, 01:56 PM
#24
I have the stock coils and a twin power, so does the majority of people in our area. We run anywhere from stock power levels to mid 400WHP on the stock twin power system. most are probably peaking at low 400WHP. We also run AI with our set ups.
The question is, is there a difference between A vrs. B when it comes to the dyno, and how much is that difference.
I find it irresponsible to show a used old non-sufficient set up vrs. a new set up and say the new set up is better. A new stock coil set up might be sufficient, I don't know.
It would be like saying the OEM apex seals aren't performing on this 100K mile engine, but our E&J seals in this brand new engine show higher compression.
Yet, E&J seals leave nasty chatter marks on engines, they are soft, and who knows about the longevitiy of them. I have seen 500WHP OEM seals with AI run 50K miles, broken down and the housings look new. I also see MANY OEM seals go for a very long time, many aftermarket seals not hit 10K miles. could be due to engine builder, or tune, or both. Not sure.
In order to have accurate data to make decisions from, you would need to test multiple units, multiple cars and do a null, alternative hypotheses to determine is one if in fact better performing than the other. On this forum I see a lot of single test points, and points compared to one another using different dyno's and in different conditions and we just say one is better than the other of one data point. I wouldn't make my decisions based off of that. There are some groups where the evidence is so overwhelming that we can definitely say there is a difference. This would apply to the EFR turbo's.
I am not saying the oem coils are better than IGN1A coils, I am just saying that we cannot conclude that new oem coils with a twin power is better or worse than new IGN1A coils ran in wasted spark mode or even direct fire for that matter. that is all. It also depends on what the user is using it for. Then you also have the reliability side of things. I know OEM has done the homework, has IGN1A coils been heat cycled as much on a rotary? I don't know.
The question is, is there a difference between A vrs. B when it comes to the dyno, and how much is that difference.
I find it irresponsible to show a used old non-sufficient set up vrs. a new set up and say the new set up is better. A new stock coil set up might be sufficient, I don't know.
It would be like saying the OEM apex seals aren't performing on this 100K mile engine, but our E&J seals in this brand new engine show higher compression.
Yet, E&J seals leave nasty chatter marks on engines, they are soft, and who knows about the longevitiy of them. I have seen 500WHP OEM seals with AI run 50K miles, broken down and the housings look new. I also see MANY OEM seals go for a very long time, many aftermarket seals not hit 10K miles. could be due to engine builder, or tune, or both. Not sure.
In order to have accurate data to make decisions from, you would need to test multiple units, multiple cars and do a null, alternative hypotheses to determine is one if in fact better performing than the other. On this forum I see a lot of single test points, and points compared to one another using different dyno's and in different conditions and we just say one is better than the other of one data point. I wouldn't make my decisions based off of that. There are some groups where the evidence is so overwhelming that we can definitely say there is a difference. This would apply to the EFR turbo's.
I am not saying the oem coils are better than IGN1A coils, I am just saying that we cannot conclude that new oem coils with a twin power is better or worse than new IGN1A coils ran in wasted spark mode or even direct fire for that matter. that is all. It also depends on what the user is using it for. Then you also have the reliability side of things. I know OEM has done the homework, has IGN1A coils been heat cycled as much on a rotary? I don't know.
