Guys running E85, what do you think the limit is? 700whp-800whp
09-13-08, 05:54 PM
#27
I hope pretty soon. Allready been testing at 20psi. So far so good.
My testing is not limited to the dyno because you know what works there does not mean it woks on the black top!
so it takes a little longer for me to be convinced. 
09-13-08, 06:21 PM
#28
tru dat, I will say that I love the thought of not having to drain the race gas and then filling it back w/ 93oct to take it to the local meets. I guess only time will tell
will keep you updated, runnin the car next week w/ the new wheels (correct offset) so that will take up the rest of the gas. e85 ??????? at this point i'm a lil scared of change and thats the truth
09-13-08, 06:40 PM
#29
I wonder if the "race gas" is a e85 ??????? whatever gas it is the "flattoprods" is gettin it done !!!! those damm rods 
it's all good were gettin it done as well http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...-9s_183131.htm
it's all good were gettin it done as well http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...-9s_183131.htm
09-13-08, 06:48 PM
#30
Well i can agree with crispeed as we've been using E85 and so far it's been very consistant. Car is running flawless. I wasn't able to push big boost since my brother's combination has reached it limits. I will say however If I could run big boost i would've. 30~35psi shouldn't be any issues..
09-13-08, 06:50 PM
#31
Once you have something then consider trying E85.
09-13-08, 07:39 PM
#32
Same goes for what everyone here are trying to accomplish.
09-13-08, 07:55 PM
#33
I love when i hear the following quotes from people.
"so and so has the same setup as me and he runs 9's. So my car is a 9 sec car."
09-14-08, 12:08 AM
#36
How can a wideband change the air fuel ratio of an exhaust and know when fuel is different??...........
It's going to read the real afr it sees no matter what.
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Any way, I'm really considering E85. I have some cooling issues on the track here in AZ and extra cooling would be great.
09-14-08, 11:29 AM
#38
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if you learn to tune by lambda then your fine. you would have to re scale the wideband to show a correct air fuel ratio. but lambda is lambda! I think we tuned to .75-.80 lambda on my cousins car with e85(piston engine) 27psi
09-14-08, 11:56 AM
#39
Two nights ago on a certain application I made just over 800whp through a 3-speed auto running between 34-38psi with a 125hp nitrous shot. Took the car out on to the streets and made numerous runs to about 170mph to check gearing and tune etc.
Went to the local 1/8mile last night and made numerous 6.20's@120's mph passes.
This car been running on E-85 since it was put together about a year ago. It's been through about 6x55 gallon drums of E85 allready and lost count on the nitrous refills.
On all the E85 applications I've done so far I can safely say I've never had to make any corrections frorn inconsistency in fuel supply. I also can say it's probably the most consistent fuel I've used and the results show that also.
Anyone basing the performance of E85 on it's octane rating are not looking at the big picture. Alcohol/Methanol/Ethanol fuels cannot be compared to regular fuels based on it's octane rating. These fuels contain the most important factor when it comes to antiknock properties and that would be their cooling properties.
On a rotary cooling effect is most important than octane rating from my experience. I've seen many different types of lower octane fuels that have greater cooling properties perform better than higher octane fuels with less cooling properties.
Very high compression two stroke racing is proof of that. Any application where a lot of combustion heat is present(rotary engines) fuels that have the greatest effect on cooling the combustion temps. are going to perfom the best.
From what I've learnt in the past year on non rotary applications I can only hope or say the rotary is going to benefit greatly form E85 use. Only time will till. I will be pushing the limits of E85 on a rotary later this week!
Went to the local 1/8mile last night and made numerous 6.20's@120's mph passes.
This car been running on E-85 since it was put together about a year ago. It's been through about 6x55 gallon drums of E85 allready and lost count on the nitrous refills.
On all the E85 applications I've done so far I can safely say I've never had to make any corrections frorn inconsistency in fuel supply. I also can say it's probably the most consistent fuel I've used and the results show that also.
Anyone basing the performance of E85 on it's octane rating are not looking at the big picture. Alcohol/Methanol/Ethanol fuels cannot be compared to regular fuels based on it's octane rating. These fuels contain the most important factor when it comes to antiknock properties and that would be their cooling properties.
On a rotary cooling effect is most important than octane rating from my experience. I've seen many different types of lower octane fuels that have greater cooling properties perform better than higher octane fuels with less cooling properties.
Very high compression two stroke racing is proof of that. Any application where a lot of combustion heat is present(rotary engines) fuels that have the greatest effect on cooling the combustion temps. are going to perfom the best.
From what I've learnt in the past year on non rotary applications I can only hope or say the rotary is going to benefit greatly form E85 use. Only time will till. I will be pushing the limits of E85 on a rotary later this week!
Chris,
You bring up some great points/facts and are very knowledgeable and I know most of them are from real world experience.... But believe me I totally understand the flaw in comparing octane ratings when discussing E85. I said what I said because I was just "throwing it out there" so to speak. E85 is over 80% ethanol which as I know you know is a form of alcohol. Alcohol has a 30% higher auto ignition temperature than that of "pump" gas. Buuut it also only contains 76,000 BTUs of energy per gallon in comparison to gasoline (pump if you will) which can contain up to 115,000 BTUs of energy per gallon.
But the BIGGEST (and what we are most concerned with) difference is the cooling effects that alcohol has that gasoline does not. Because alcohol needs a higher heat for vaporization it actually improves the VE of the engine with its cooling effects (more power). It is also easier on the internal engine mechanics than most other fuels are.
I am a huge supporter of ethanol E85 and am looking forward to what the future has in store for it in conjunction with the rotary! I will be using it on my personal car when it's finished as well.......
-J
09-14-08, 12:38 PM
#40
I'm trying to find a reliable sorce for E-98-100. Seen the results of those fuels and I can say it's right on par with methanol/alcohol but without most of the headaches.
09-14-08, 01:29 PM
#41
It will have a very nontraditional (well...nontraditional to 95% of the forum goers around here anyway
) 2 rotor setup and will be street driven and will be run in the mid-high 20psi range. I have a few custom things in the works that will make for a very exciting power band.....more to come.I too have been looking into E98 but I have a hard enough time getting E85 around here much less 98. Really sucks that there isn't more stations nation wide readily carrying this stuff. A few buddies and I actually have thought about opening a gas station here locally for this very reason. Oh well we'll see.
-J
09-14-08, 01:36 PM
#42
I'm trying to find a reliable sorce for E-98-100. Seen the results of those fuels and I can say it's right on par with methanol/alcohol but without most of the headaches.[/QUOTE]
yep the same way I was thinking e98 then cut it w/ some race gas, the problem that i see is the premix I can't use my idemitsu syntec blend I know that there is the castor premix, but i think if i do make the change i will be going w/ the redline alcohol premix as for gettin my setup dialed in the power is there gettin to the ground is another story hell a novel y ya bullshitin lol............
I know criss you didn't make the comment "dialed in " if 770 whp is not dialed in i don't know what dialed in is ? chit i might make 800 at the same amount of boost
w/ corn fed !!!!!! jus wishfull thinkin
on a side note iv'e learned alot about e85/e98 from ari aka "nator" I think soon enough we will all be runnin corn juice only time will tell and the greatest part about it it's pump gas !!!!!!!!!!!!!
yep the same way I was thinking e98 then cut it w/ some race gas, the problem that i see is the premix I can't use my idemitsu syntec blend I know that there is the castor premix, but i think if i do make the change i will be going w/ the redline alcohol premix as for gettin my setup dialed in the power is there gettin to the ground is another story hell a novel y ya bullshitin lol............
I know criss you didn't make the comment "dialed in " if 770 whp is not dialed in i don't know what dialed in is ? chit i might make 800 at the same amount of boost
w/ corn fed !!!!!! jus wishfull thinkin
on a side note iv'e learned alot about e85/e98 from ari aka "nator" I think soon enough we will all be runnin corn juice only time will tell
and the greatest part about it it's pump gas !!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-14-08, 07:26 PM
#45
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man I hate living in a tiny remote country. New Zealand is about a year behind the states with Mobile phones, TVs, High Speed net Bla Bla Bla......we have only JUST got e10 and its the greatest thing ever according to the gas stations......I hope we get e86 this decade!!!! Might have to import some
Might have to import some
09-14-08, 07:45 PM
#46
I got a customers car that makes over 900hp but yet still can't get down the track due to clutch and other stupid little issues.. These issues are park of dialing a car in.. Usually it's much smarter to turn the power down and get all these issues sorted out and then bring the power back in slowly as everything on the car is working properly but some guys/customers just don't want to do that... hehe...
Last edited by enzo250; 09-14-08 at 07:50 PM.
09-15-08, 10:14 AM
#47
Rotary Enthusiast
Ok, so I have a question then:
What AFR's on my meter should I shoot for with E-85? I know it likes to run in the 7.5-9.0 range of true AFR but Wideband meters measure oxygen so if its running stoich on alcohol my meter will read 14.7 even if stoich for alcohol is 8.7(or whatever it is). Should I still shoot for a 11.0-11.7 AFR?
I have an Innovate.
Thanks,
Chris
What AFR's on my meter should I shoot for with E-85? I know it likes to run in the 7.5-9.0 range of true AFR but Wideband meters measure oxygen so if its running stoich on alcohol my meter will read 14.7 even if stoich for alcohol is 8.7(or whatever it is). Should I still shoot for a 11.0-11.7 AFR?
I have an Innovate.
Thanks,
Chris
09-15-08, 10:42 AM
#48
All a/f meters read in lambda then convert to a/f for specific types of fuel..
Since some meters don't allow you to change to different fuels it easier to just leave it in gasoline a/f.
Lambda is the same for all fuels...
So if you wanna run let's say .75 lambda, then just tune the car until your a/f meter shows 11.0.
11.7 would be .8 lambda..
Since some meters don't allow you to change to different fuels it easier to just leave it in gasoline a/f.
Lambda is the same for all fuels...
So if you wanna run let's say .75 lambda, then just tune the car until your a/f meter shows 11.0.
11.7 would be .8 lambda..
09-15-08, 10:52 AM
#49
Rotary Enthusiast
All a/f meters read in lambda then convert to a/f for specific types of fuel..
Since some meters don't allow you to change to different fuels it easier to just leave it in gasoline a/f.
Lambda is the same for all fuels...
So if you wanna run let's say .75 lambda, then just tune the car until your a/f meter shows 11.0.
11.7 would be .8 lambda..
Since some meters don't allow you to change to different fuels it easier to just leave it in gasoline a/f.
Lambda is the same for all fuels...
So if you wanna run let's say .75 lambda, then just tune the car until your a/f meter shows 11.0.
11.7 would be .8 lambda..
So what lambda would I want to keep the car at for E-85 in the range(15-25psi) I am shooting for? Same as I would want for gas or leaner? I know it is less prone to detonation so running a little leaner(12.0-12.5AFR) would be an option, no?
Thanks for the input.
Chris
09-15-08, 11:57 AM
#50
depends on the setup/motor.
I would start somewhere between .65~.75 and see what the motor wants...
With alcohol you'll notice you still will make good power even when rich...
excess will be used to help cool so don't be tempted to lean it out..
I would start somewhere between .65~.75 and see what the motor wants...
With alcohol you'll notice you still will make good power even when rich...
excess will be used to help cool so don't be tempted to lean it out..