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please post your fuel injector sizes. i assume since you aren't running the Excessive manifold you are running 2 secondary injectors, correct? i want to calculate your power.
oil pressure only 40 at 7554? seems low to me. should be around 70.
are you running a thermocouple or thermistor for IAT?
the G40-1150 has a 4 inch hotside flange. i have numerous pulls from 72 to 100 (road limited) at 2650 altitude and it is making 530 rwhp off my spring at 15.9 psi.
the turbo manifold is quite important to get right. the HKS is a significant discount due to the mismatched runners. there are no good turbo manifolds on the market and i suggest you make your own.
So been out testing today and i'm running into a strange issue.
3rd gear acceleration to 8000rpm and beyond all great, no issues. Feels fun and Fast!
4th gear beyond to 7300rpm all great but beyond 7400rpm, my afr's start to shoot rich....? It feels like the acceleration has hit a wall..or suddenly not very keen to accelerate.
pushed on in 3rd to get my boost settings correct and at 22psi now. So wont be long before i have some dragy data to share!
Have you checked logs for how much fuel trim is being applied due to coolant or air temperature? The only other thing I can think of is the higher driveline resistance is causing more twist on the engine mounts and you are seeing a ground resistance or connector issue somewhere, system voltage looks solid though.
Have you checked logs for how much fuel trim is being applied due to coolant or air temperature? The only other thing I can think of is the higher driveline resistance is causing more twist on the engine mounts and you are seeing a ground resistance or connector issue somewhere, system voltage looks solid though.
What coils are you running?
No additional fuel is being added because ait fuel trims or otherwise. Yh i did think the load in 4th would be higher. The only other thing i can think off is because its a street port on oem intake manifolds....past 7300rpm....in 4th is a choke point of restriction by either the turbo or the street port itelf?
I'm gonna have to change my boost control strategy and maybe bleed off boost after 7300rpm.
it is great to see you up and running again after winter. i think your problem relates to mismatches and heat cumulation during your more than a ten second run. you were making 519 at 7352 and had been running hard for about 10 seconds. heat cumulates and at that power level and length of run things get pretty hot. intercooler heat soak can be good for a 50 hp discount. if you air filter is anywhere near the lee side of your intercooler IATs will skyrocket... i do remember you fixed it after it collapsed... did you relocate the filter?
you are running, i believe, an OE LIM. the rear runners are quite restrictive. i really like, and run, the OE UIM but any serious build, like yours, needs a better LIM.
depending on your turbine location your front runners can get very hot and move the front AFR easily more than a full number. during an extended run.
you are doing about 69 pounds per minute at 20.6 psi. the G35-1050 can do 95 pounds at 20 psi.
you have uprated your exhaust but a chain is as strong as... you need to uprate more of your flow related items. i think you have both a flow and a heat problem which you will need to solve. you may find a larger turbo will not significantly change your power if you have a flow restriction from just average ports and intercooler. i would focus on getting your current turbo to max out before upgrading to the G40-1150.
proper instrumentation will answer all your questions as to why your system is laying down at top end. if, for example, you had a thermocouple rather than a thermistor reporting IAT you would know your intercooler efficacy. your current sensor moves like a glacier. i remember in 2003 doing a dyno run, around 450, to 8500 and seeing all the cells at 27 C. that led me to thermocouples which generate 4 readings per second and are accurate +/- .4 tenths of one percent.. in other words .4 of one degree +/- at 100 F. you may find your IAT over 200 F at the end of a run... it is coming out of your turbo between 300 and 400. a really good intercooler removes up to 67% of the rise from ambient. ambient is not outside air temp but temp at the air filter.
for instance:
temp at filter 125 F
temp out of turbo 350 F
IAT IF IC is really good (67% efficient).....150 F
i use 100% methanol as AI and my real IATs are around 75 F at 535, 15.9 psi, G40-1150. cool IATs primarily due to the methanol.
in addition to an air temp thermocouple i would add EGTs so you can trim individual rotors... trimmed out, my EGTs are less than 20 F apart at the end of a run.. finally, i would add a pressure sensor to your turbo manifold. proper instrumentation is a really good investment.
it is great to see you up and running again after winter. i think your problem relates to mismatches and heat cumulation during your more than a ten second run. you were making 519 at 7352 and had been running hard for about 10 seconds. heat cumulates and at that power level and length of run things get pretty hot. intercooler heat soak can be good for a 50 hp discount. if you air filter is anywhere near the lee side of your intercooler IATs will skyrocket... i do remember you fixed it after it collapsed... did you relocate the filter?
you are running, i believe, an OE LIM. the rear runners are quite restrictive. i really like, and run, the OE UIM but any serious build, like yours, needs a better LIM.
depending on your turbine location your front runners can get very hot and move the front AFR easily more than a full number. during an extended run.
you are doing about 69 pounds per minute at 20.6 psi. the G35-1050 can do 95 pounds at 20 psi.
you have uprated your exhaust but a chain is as strong as... you need to uprate more of your flow related items. i think you have both a flow and a heat problem which you will need to solve. you may find a larger turbo will not significantly change your power if you have a flow restriction from just average ports and intercooler. i would focus on getting your current turbo to max out before upgrading to the G40-1150.
proper instrumentation will answer all your questions as to why your system is laying down at top end. if, for example, you had a thermocouple rather than a thermistor reporting IAT you would know your intercooler efficacy. your current sensor moves like a glacier. i remember in 2003 doing a dyno run, around 450, to 8500 and seeing all the cells at 27 C. that led me to thermocouples which generate 4 readings per second and are accurate +/- .4 tenths of one percent.. in other words .4 of one degree +/- at 100 F. you may find your IAT over 200 F at the end of a run... it is coming out of your turbo between 300 and 400. a really good intercooler removes up to 67% of the rise from ambient. ambient is not outside air temp but temp at the air filter.
for instance:
temp at filter 125 F
temp out of turbo 350 F
IAT IF IC is really good (67% efficient).....150 F
i use 100% methanol as AI and my real IATs are around 75 F at 535, 15.9 psi, G40-1150. cool IATs primarily due to the methanol.
in addition to an air temp thermocouple i would add EGTs so you can trim individual rotors... trimmed out, my EGTs are less than 20 F apart at the end of a run.. finally, i would add a pressure sensor to your turbo manifold. proper instrumentation is a really good investment.
it never ends
Don't want to derail the thread, but what boost threshold are you seeing with the G40?
i mentioned my G40-1150 metrics as the OP has the turbo incoming.
while i have lots of pulls and a few thou miles on my G40 i have been only running off the spring which is just shy of 16. (at 2650 altitude). i see no significant diff as to spool V my EFR 9180. of course this is totally subjective. logs support this.
with the the boost control at 100% WG DC until low 4000s the 9180 was way ahead of the pedal V running off the spring. i assume the G40 will be similar.
i can say that my EMP backpressure crossover is about 350 rpm later than the 9180 and my IATs and EGTs are lower. all good. it is going to be a fun ride at 20 psi and above.
it is great to see you up and running again after winter. i think your problem relates to mismatches and heat cumulation during your more than a ten second run. you were making 519 at 7352 and had been running hard for about 10 seconds. heat cumulates and at that power level and length of run things get pretty hot. intercooler heat soak can be good for a 50 hp discount. if you air filter is anywhere near the lee side of your intercooler IATs will skyrocket... i do remember you fixed it after it collapsed... did you relocate the filter?
you are running, i believe, an OE LIM. the rear runners are quite restrictive. i really like, and run, the OE UIM but any serious build, like yours, needs a better LIM.
depending on your turbine location your front runners can get very hot and move the front AFR easily more than a full number. during an extended run.
you are doing about 69 pounds per minute at 20.6 psi. the G35-1050 can do 95 pounds at 20 psi.
you have uprated your exhaust but a chain is as strong as... you need to uprate more of your flow related items. i think you have both a flow and a heat problem which you will need to solve. you may find a larger turbo will not significantly change your power if you have a flow restriction from just average ports and intercooler. i would focus on getting your current turbo to max out before upgrading to the G40-1150.
proper instrumentation will answer all your questions as to why your system is laying down at top end. if, for example, you had a thermocouple rather than a thermistor reporting IAT you would know your intercooler efficacy. your current sensor moves like a glacier. i remember in 2003 doing a dyno run, around 450, to 8500 and seeing all the cells at 27 C. that led me to thermocouples which generate 4 readings per second and are accurate +/- .4 tenths of one percent.. in other words .4 of one degree +/- at 100 F. you may find your IAT over 200 F at the end of a run... it is coming out of your turbo between 300 and 400. a really good intercooler removes up to 67% of the rise from ambient. ambient is not outside air temp but temp at the air filter.
for instance:
temp at filter 125 F
temp out of turbo 350 F
IAT IF IC is really good (67% efficient).....150 F
i use 100% methanol as AI and my real IATs are around 75 F at 535, 15.9 psi, G40-1150. cool IATs primarily due to the methanol.
in addition to an air temp thermocouple i would add EGTs so you can trim individual rotors... trimmed out, my EGTs are less than 20 F apart at the end of a run.. finally, i would add a pressure sensor to your turbo manifold. proper instrumentation is a really good investment.
it never ends
I agree the setup is far from optimized or even well thought out and the additional heat of the summer is also not helping. I haven't gone any faster(well marginally) even with more boost but because of the afrs shooting rich in 4th but not in 3rd. So your theory about the heat of the front runner makes sense. There is no heat shield there!!
I got an excessive lim to go on soon and I've made it a top priority to go overkill and get as much heat shielding between the dp, the exhaust manifold and the lim. (Currently there is none, except for an HKS heat shield. The DP is inches away from the lim and the mani right under it haha!)
I haven't got any high amp relays in my ignition system either so I need to order a haltech 100 amp solid state relay to ensure the ignition system is getting all the juice it needs. I'm not seeing any battery voltage drops or dwell time falling away but I want to be sure. Perhaps even check the plug gaps as im running the gaps the plugs came with from ngk for the 10.5 variations.
Yes i hear you, i need to retire the hks cast mani and get a new mani with emap and egt sensors and a fast reacting AIT to get the other side of the story! (Get there eventually)
I know if i dont get break up in 4th even with the hotter ambient conditions it will break into low 6s range. In 3rd it feels amazing.....but 4th its feels like its hit a wall.....even with that....it ran a pb time....so if i can fix whatever the issues are in 4th I feel a low 6s range is possible. I am starting to doubt if a high 5s range is possible now but time will tell!
Yes i hear you, i need to retire the hks cast mani and get a new mani with emap and egt sensors and a fast reacting AIT to get the other side of the story! (Get there eventually)
if possible, you should put the pressure and temp sensors in the manifold first. basically if you know the temp and pressure in and out of the turbo, and run the equations, it'll tell you what part(s) to change
While I try to rectify the above mentioned issues and there's quite a few to resolve. Thought I'd share some other aspects of the build! In the meantime, I got some dream spec 18" TE37SL and Cup 2 Tyres - Fueling the Journey to Greatness! Precision Meets Performance: The keen eye among you may spot the Dragy GPS device! (A Cruel Mistress) Fine-Tuning for Effortless Speed: Streamlining without the Big Wing. (Dragy proven to be 0.2 tenths faster on mine ) Embracing the Thrill with 18" TE37SL and Cup 2 Tyres
Was trying to install the excessive lower intake mani today. This was sold to me as a brand new piece but two of the runners have severe cracks and the outside has what can only be described as a repair.
Is it a known issue that excessive lim have poor casting and overall poor overall finish?
Just trying to figure out if this is one which should have gone in the Bin but the engineer at excessive decided to do a poor job of repairing it and selling it on as new? or have I been scammed by the seller?
Any thoughts and feedback on excessive lim casting and quality welcomed as i'm not sure what to do next. Does anyone have experience with running excessive lim's and their quality in general? are they all like this one or similar?
They're usually solid but once in a while there's a bad one. I had a bad one and they exchanged it. Have you contacted the seller?
Regardless, they do benefit from porting at least port cleanup and gasket match.
The seller has washed his hands off this! He claims he sold me a new product which has a manufacturing defect from excessive. Failed to provide proof of purchase as well. He claims this is how all their products are and is in perfect working condition and will work just fine because excessive sold this to him as new.
He mentioned this is a known issue with excessive products and i should have done my research. I am yet to find multiple threads by many owners who claim to have such issues. Anyways I'm nearly 700usd down and may have to put this in the bin unless excessive sort this out for me? It is brand new. How did you reach out to excessive? Is there an email address or something?
The seller has washed his hands off this! He claims he sold me a new product which has a manufacturing defect from excessive. Failed to provide proof of purchase as well. He claims this is how all their products are and is in perfect working condition and will work just fine because excessive sold this to him as new.
He mentioned this is a known issue with excessive products and i should have done my research. I am yet to find multiple threads by many owners who claim to have such issues. Anyways I'm nearly 700usd down and may have to put this in the bin unless excessive sort this out for me? It is brand new. How did you reach out to excessive? Is there an email address or something?
Most country's consumer law places the obligation in the retailer regardless of manufacturing defects. I'd find that law and how to formalise a complaint, often as soon as a complaint is found they are up for a fine of more than the item cost as well as rectification, will usually pull their finger out if they think you are serious.
I'm not sure if xcessive mfg are easy to get a hold of but you can try email/phone. My claim was years ago so idk how's that working nowadays.
Or you could take various pictures, package it, label it and take more pictures, send it back with signature confirmation, and open a claim with your credit card.
I also ran into a quality issue with the Xcessive LIM. I called and spoke with them directly. Ultimately, I sent them the manifold and they fixed the issues by sanding down the rough areas. Yours does look significantly worse than mine did. I dont know what the availability of new Xcessive LIMs are. I know they were switching foundries and there was a long wait. Maybe contact Xcessive directly and see if they will help. They were good to work with.
Most country's consumer law places the obligation in the retailer regardless of manufacturing defects. I'd find that law and how to formalise a complaint, often as soon as a complaint is found they are up for a fine of more than the item cost as well as rectification, will usually pull their finger out if they think you are serious.
I bought it off a senior member and admin of the fdoc.co.uk forum. This is the British version of Rx7club.com
The listing was heavily misrepresented. Said he was selling a brand new item. To me brand means immaculate, perfect working condition. I admit i was a fool to not inspect the manifold upon purchase because i bought from another senior member of the community and I thought a handshake would be sufficient to ensure honesty, integrity and transparency. When i notified the seller he admitted he had 3 excessive lims prior which also had issues....but never once mentioned this to me...or in the listing! Leads me to believe he knew the condition of this one and still sold it on. For an ADMIN of a rx7 forum to misrepresent and ultimately scam me makes me feel so stupid! Got scammed by a well respected member of the community. When i asked for a refund....i got the usual excuses...that its a manufacturing defect and that i should sell it on or go back to excessive. Never once accepting or backing himself to offer a refund as knows he's sold on a defective piece. Even now he says it fine and will work fine as excessive deem this brand new!!
Lesson learnt! What else is there when you get flogged an item by a senior member of the community. I digress!!
I also ran into a quality issue with the Xcessive LIM. I called and spoke with them directly. Ultimately, I sent them the manifold and they fixed the issues by sanding down the rough areas. Yours does look significantly worse than mine did. I dont know what the availability of new Xcessive LIMs are. I know they were switching foundries and there was a long wait. Maybe contact Xcessive directly and see if they will help. They were good to work with.
Thank you for your response. As you stated "mine is significantly worse" makes me feel better that I'm not just being pedantic. There are 2 severe cracks..if they were tiny hairline cracks this would be a non issue and one of the cracks has an obvious repair right behind it...like that piece just fell off or something worse!
What is the best method to contact them? Is there an email address?
Also quick updated the staff from excessive emailed me back very quickly and have taken my details to send me a replacement manifold. Keep you all posted as soon as I receive the new replacement.
Also quick updated the staff from excessive emailed me back very quickly and have taken my details to send me a replacement manifold. Keep you all posted as soon as I receive the new replacement.
I'm glad to hear it. I forgot I ordered an Xcessive manifold over a year ago and no longer need it because i'm going semi-pp. The quality of the Xcessive I received was quite good.
05-19-23, 05:33 PM
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