So, running a 4088, big street port, running 4 ID1000 secondaries in a GZ LIM, -10 fuel lines in CJM rails, and am throwing in a pair of ID1000 primaries to run E85. Now, I'm currently running a Walbro, and I want to run a solid 450-500 whp. Preferably 5. That being said, I'm looking at either Deutchwerks(sp?) 300lph or the new Aeromotive 340lph in tank pumps. Anybody have any experience with either? I don't want to run a swirl pot or any of that stuff as this a total street car.

 

i understand that i'm not running at the 500 HP level, but i'd like to impart this insight to you. you can't disregard a surge tank (swirl pot) as not-streetable because it's sort of trying to deny reality.

i'm putting together my brother's car and we're hoping for a little less than half your goal, but the functional need for a surge tank is undeniable. i didn't like the extra complexity it added, but i felt the need outweighed my discomfort, so i found a way to incorporate it. at your level, i think you need to do the same.

 

-10 is EXTREME overkill. As far as the pump goes: I would recommend either a Bosch 044 or the new Aeromotive "stealth" pump. Also, that turbo, fuel type and fuel setup is not really mached for a 450hp build...

-J

 

why run 4 id1000's secondaries instead of just 2 id2000?

 

thought i would run the numbers for you....

500 rwhp SAE

500 X 1.92 =s 960 CFM =s 66.339 pounds per minute of air.

4088r does 68 max (512 rw), 4088 does 72 (542 rw)

66.339/ 10.75 AFR = 6.171 pounds per minute of gasoline

6.171/ 6.35 =s .9718 gallons of gas per minute to do 500.

.9718 X 124,340 (BTUs per gallon) = 120,837 BTUs to make 500

120,837/ 90,501 BTUs in a gallon of E85 = 1.3352 to correct gas to E85

1.3352 X .9718 =s 1.29755 gallons of E85 per minute to do 500

1.29755 X 1.1764 to correct for max 85% duty cycle =s 1.526 GPM

Fuel Pump Requirements for 500 hp

1.526 GPM =s 5776 CC/Min

1.526 GPM =s 346 liters/hour

ethanol weighs 6.58 pounds per gallon, gas 6.35. E85 6.54, since the blend weighs 3% more than gas flow rates will be a touch less but nothing significant.

howard

 

I'll tell you right now i've tried making 500hp with one bosch 044 and it wasn't enough.

You'll need 2..

 

How was it wired in? And I'm guessing this was not on gasoline?

 

according to Bosch... 044

200 Liters per hour at 72.5 psi (29 psi boost w 43.5 static)

200 L/H is 3333 CC/Min

at 11.0 AFR

66.3 pounds air

6.03 pounds gas/ 6.35 =s .95 gallons or 118,091 BTUs

.95 GPM is 215 LPH needed to make 500 at 29 psi

215 LPH is 3583 CC/Min

if the fuel gets warm Bosch deducts 8 GPH from the 53 at 29 psi.

it seems like Enzo and Bosch agree

howard

 

Howard, don't we need to account for pressure loss from the tank through the filter to the rail? I've seen estimates of 15psi so in this case the pump would have to go up to 87.5 psi no?

 

yes, any restrictions are deducts. good point

 

i need to decide/advice which pump to go with options are bosch 044 or areomotive a1000
specs are s5 large streetport, t62 .96 a/r,720 & 1600 cc injectors car will be used as weekend warrior.

 

T62

63 pounds per minute at 65% effic (air)
475 rw max
at 10.75 AFR .9229 gallons per minute of gas

4109 CC/Min Gross deliverabilso as to deliverability so as to deliver 3493 at 85% duty

209 liters per hour min fuel pump cap before restriction discounts such as filter.

denso supra pump or 044 w a Kenne Bell Boost A Pump

howard

 

howard
sorry for not specifying this sooner
this is going in a 1st gen rx7 i'll be using the stock fuel tank feeding a surge tank,so i would need a inline style pump after the surge, i was planning on using the a1000 but if it's not feasible which pump should i consider?

 

Yes.. E85..

 

not a chance on E85. it takes 36% more volume than gas.

 

No doubt Howard can do the math, he's a pro no doubt about it, period.

I would think, and I may be wrong, that 2 in tank Denso (Supra) pumps w/5 3/8" lines would do the trick. Assuming the rest of the fuel system/engine/etc. is up for the task. Need lots of air/gas comin in, the ability to use it up (or most of it) and get it out, all three. Yea, that should work.

Air/Fuel/Timing... Thats what makes horse power

Good luck

 

You're a genius Howard!

 

Bahaha sorry, I meant -8. For some reason I was thinking of my oil lines. The reason I was looking at the Aeromotive is that not only is it cheaper than the Bosch, it flows 60 lph-ish more. Why is this setup not matched for 450 hp?

 

So if I understand all this correctly, the short answer is no, the setup I have won't support. I'll be maxing both the injectors and pump...

 

2 Genuine Bosch 044's and more than 7200cc/min worth of injector.

 

Fuel Lab in-tank installed 1000 hp pump. They are a much smaller pump than the equivalent SX performance pump and have the speed controller inside the pump.

 

6xID1000's (4 bar) will support your HP goals. Depends on what RPM's you'll be spinning and how high your BSFC gets but they should support 500hp on E85. One 044 however will not.

Course you could always just swap out your secondaries to ID2000's. 2200cc/min FTW!

 

Swapping secondaries would cost even more $ though. I'm limiting at 8500 maybe even 8 depending on how it looks when we start tuning, and I don't know about my BSFC.

fritts- I'm interested in those FuelLab pumps, but can't seem find a price on them. If they are the equivalent to the Aeromotive for $160, I'd be all in.