An excellent turbo brand read
Braaaap Tshhhh!
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 113
Likes: 5
From: Sydney, Australia
Interesting, but everyone I've spoken to hasn't had an issue in recent times with the Precision stuff. When was that article published though? Haven't precision undergone manufacturing changes?
Last edited by Enigmatic; Oct 21, 2013 at 08:26 PM.
Ive seen the precision stuff most recently fail left and right on both rotary and non-rotary cars. A couple RB's putting down 500 - 1000 AWHP. All of them had bearing failure.
I also noticed that the precision turbos seemed to really heat the compressed air more so than the borg warners. On two almost identical RB's 2.6L, same cams, exhaust manifolds and exhaust. Only difference was the stock intake manifold versus the Greddy intake manifold. However, my point about heating up the compressed air.
The RB with the precision turbo got so hot that you could not touch the intercooler pipe going from the compressor cover to the intercooler end tank.
The RB with the borg warner (which made more power at the same boost) you could touch the same intercooler pipe no problem.
Needless to say, the precision failed about 2 days later. The car with the Borg warner is still being raped on a daily basis, that car has two modes, idling and rev limiter.
Not saying one is better than the other. I have personally never had a precision turbo. I just run Borg Warners b/c I've made great power with them and have never had any issues even under less than ideal conditions.
I also noticed that the precision turbos seemed to really heat the compressed air more so than the borg warners. On two almost identical RB's 2.6L, same cams, exhaust manifolds and exhaust. Only difference was the stock intake manifold versus the Greddy intake manifold. However, my point about heating up the compressed air.
The RB with the precision turbo got so hot that you could not touch the intercooler pipe going from the compressor cover to the intercooler end tank.
The RB with the borg warner (which made more power at the same boost) you could touch the same intercooler pipe no problem.
Needless to say, the precision failed about 2 days later. The car with the Borg warner is still being raped on a daily basis, that car has two modes, idling and rev limiter.
Not saying one is better than the other. I have personally never had a precision turbo. I just run Borg Warners b/c I've made great power with them and have never had any issues even under less than ideal conditions.
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Ive seen the precision stuff most recently fail left and right on both rotary and non-rotary cars. A couple RB's putting down 500 - 1000 AWHP. All of them had bearing failure.
I also noticed that the precision turbos seemed to really heat the compressed air more so than the borg warners. On two almost identical RB's 2.6L, same cams, exhaust manifolds and exhaust. Only difference was the stock intake manifold versus the Greddy intake manifold. However, my point about heating up the compressed air.
The RB with the precision turbo got so hot that you could not touch the intercooler pipe going from the compressor cover to the intercooler end tank.
The RB with the borg warner (which made more power at the same boost) you could touch the same intercooler pipe no problem.
Needless to say, the precision failed about 2 days later. The car with the Borg warner is still being raped on a daily basis, that car has two modes, idling and rev limiter.
Not saying one is better than the other. I have personally never had a precision turbo. I just run Borg Warners b/c I've made great power with them and have never had any issues even under less than ideal conditions.
I also noticed that the precision turbos seemed to really heat the compressed air more so than the borg warners. On two almost identical RB's 2.6L, same cams, exhaust manifolds and exhaust. Only difference was the stock intake manifold versus the Greddy intake manifold. However, my point about heating up the compressed air.
The RB with the precision turbo got so hot that you could not touch the intercooler pipe going from the compressor cover to the intercooler end tank.
The RB with the borg warner (which made more power at the same boost) you could touch the same intercooler pipe no problem.
Needless to say, the precision failed about 2 days later. The car with the Borg warner is still being raped on a daily basis, that car has two modes, idling and rev limiter.
Not saying one is better than the other. I have personally never had a precision turbo. I just run Borg Warners b/c I've made great power with them and have never had any issues even under less than ideal conditions.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 846
Likes: 14
From: hsv al
AWESOME FIND!
i have allways said that out of all my friends who have ran precision turbos on many different cars and set ups. from 6.01 1/8th mile turbo ls1 rx to a 650 honda civic type R every precision unit has had to be rebuilt at some point.
i have allways said that out of all my friends who have ran precision turbos on many different cars and set ups. from 6.01 1/8th mile turbo ls1 rx to a 650 honda civic type R every precision unit has had to be rebuilt at some point.
I remember over a year ago when I was calling them junk trying to protect people. Some people were trying to give me a bad name over it... It's nice to know I'm right on the money 
i wouldn't read too much into it.
garrett ball bearings fail and with quite a bit of regularity, add in the fact that garrett does not sell rebuild kits to anyone outside a garrett certified shop is a little discouraging also since you generally have to pay for a virtually new CHRA(may as well just buy a new turbo and have spare parts).
it bothers me more when a company tries to discredit another, if it was an article done by a third party i would be more willing to accept it. or using a $170,000 loss as a scare tactic, it is a racecar and any of a thousand components can fail at any given time and cause a total loss...
but for the money i would buy a garrett over a PT or turbonetics anyday, regardless of what modifications they have done or parts used to build their upgrades with(even if it used garrett internals).
there quite simply is no bulletproof turbo, no matter how you slice it.
billions of cars run around the earth everyday, they all have the potential to do destructive things in many ways, shapes and forms.
garrett ball bearings fail and with quite a bit of regularity, add in the fact that garrett does not sell rebuild kits to anyone outside a garrett certified shop is a little discouraging also since you generally have to pay for a virtually new CHRA(may as well just buy a new turbo and have spare parts).
it bothers me more when a company tries to discredit another, if it was an article done by a third party i would be more willing to accept it. or using a $170,000 loss as a scare tactic, it is a racecar and any of a thousand components can fail at any given time and cause a total loss...
but for the money i would buy a garrett over a PT or turbonetics anyday, regardless of what modifications they have done or parts used to build their upgrades with(even if it used garrett internals).
there quite simply is no bulletproof turbo, no matter how you slice it.
billions of cars run around the earth everyday, they all have the potential to do destructive things in many ways, shapes and forms.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; Oct 22, 2013 at 02:25 PM.
^^^ Agreed, that page has been around for awhile and some of that info is out of date and some is simply wrong. Precision lost it's Garrett distributorship the same way a few others much bigger than them did. Honeywell was trying to sell off Garrett and in doing so screwed over MD's some who had been selling tens of millions of dollars of Garrett product to the ag and diesel industries, their plan fell through and the buyer walked, Garrett came back hat in hand to some of their MD's and were basically told we don't need you or your business. Can't blame them, some of them were MD's for over 30yrs and were their sales leaders. Garrett's aftermarket performance division counts for less than 2% of their total sales. I doubt they were even noticing what Precision does since part of that 2% was precision sales.
I can honestly say as humbly as possible I have sold as many Garrett's and Precisions as anyone on this board and both perform well. Both have failed as well neither one has seemed that much more reliable than the other and usually when a failure does occur it is less likely the turbo that is the cause. Garrett has some slight advantages by being as large as they are but I watch precision turbo's here almost daily on the dyno perform very well and in certain areas are putting better numbers than the Garrett turbos and vice versa. Will the precision turbo's last as long as Garrett turbo's in daily use? I can't be certain I haven't had Precision units on the same car for 10+yrs as I have had on some of the Garrett units, but they do seem to be pretty good for the past few years.
That site comes off as being written by someone who is not happy he is losing sales to precision turbo's in his backyard, kinda stupid because he could be selling both. I will always sell what I think best fits the application at hand. If a 35R will work better so be it, if a 62/66 will work so better so be it. I'm more concerned about sizing the turbo appropriately for the application than I am for which is the current hottest brand name and I wont sell either if I thought they weren't reliable.
~S~
a-spec.com
I can honestly say as humbly as possible I have sold as many Garrett's and Precisions as anyone on this board and both perform well. Both have failed as well neither one has seemed that much more reliable than the other and usually when a failure does occur it is less likely the turbo that is the cause. Garrett has some slight advantages by being as large as they are but I watch precision turbo's here almost daily on the dyno perform very well and in certain areas are putting better numbers than the Garrett turbos and vice versa. Will the precision turbo's last as long as Garrett turbo's in daily use? I can't be certain I haven't had Precision units on the same car for 10+yrs as I have had on some of the Garrett units, but they do seem to be pretty good for the past few years.
That site comes off as being written by someone who is not happy he is losing sales to precision turbo's in his backyard, kinda stupid because he could be selling both. I will always sell what I think best fits the application at hand. If a 35R will work better so be it, if a 62/66 will work so better so be it. I'm more concerned about sizing the turbo appropriately for the application than I am for which is the current hottest brand name and I wont sell either if I thought they weren't reliable.
~S~
a-spec.com
Last edited by Zero R; Oct 22, 2013 at 03:46 PM.
not to mention how often are you going to see a turbo explosion around here?
maybe the super rare occasion in pure drag racing areas, pushing far more than what everyone else is using a turbo for and well beyond what the turbo was ever meant to handle.
big woop, so they built a 6 second car pushing 70psi through a turbo spinning 200,000+ RPMs and it blew up. what did they expect? that is why you have safety implementations to save your $170,000 investment instead of the additional .05 second time or risk losing it for that quicker time. hell, even a basic extinguisher could have turned a total loss into a fraction of that, but what fun would it be without the ability of throwing around big numbers?
then they went off on a tangent about fake turbo parts. well of course, it's just a biased page written by a biased salesman.
to top it off we'll throw in a 2 minute super slow motion video of a turbo eating itself alive... yeah, because a component that is turning 700 horses into 1500+ won't do that without possibility!
and what is causing them to explode anyways? nitrous. and we all love nitrous.
i've seen some pretty spectacular turbo failures but never anything even remotely that gruesome. that whole page is a waste of space and should remove all the text and focus on sympathy for the car losses.
maybe the super rare occasion in pure drag racing areas, pushing far more than what everyone else is using a turbo for and well beyond what the turbo was ever meant to handle.
big woop, so they built a 6 second car pushing 70psi through a turbo spinning 200,000+ RPMs and it blew up. what did they expect? that is why you have safety implementations to save your $170,000 investment instead of the additional .05 second time or risk losing it for that quicker time. hell, even a basic extinguisher could have turned a total loss into a fraction of that, but what fun would it be without the ability of throwing around big numbers?
then they went off on a tangent about fake turbo parts. well of course, it's just a biased page written by a biased salesman.
to top it off we'll throw in a 2 minute super slow motion video of a turbo eating itself alive... yeah, because a component that is turning 700 horses into 1500+ won't do that without possibility!
and what is causing them to explode anyways? nitrous. and we all love nitrous.
i've seen some pretty spectacular turbo failures but never anything even remotely that gruesome. that whole page is a waste of space and should remove all the text and focus on sympathy for the car losses.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; Oct 22, 2013 at 04:54 PM.
Last year I tuned a bunch of cars and all three single turbo cars with Precisions turbos had bearing failures. One was so extreme that you would have to rev the car above 4k rpm before the compressor wheel would even move. They don't cope well with higher than normal egt's and are not durable IMO.
I've got what people call a "Borg Warner tattoo." I've never had any problems with them once. Garrett turbos develop strange oil leak/sealing issues and their CHRA design around compressor housings and turbine housings are a joke. One year we went through 2x 42r's and 3x 35r's.
Some people have luck with specific parts and companies. I'm no different.
I've got what people call a "Borg Warner tattoo." I've never had any problems with them once. Garrett turbos develop strange oil leak/sealing issues and their CHRA design around compressor housings and turbine housings are a joke. One year we went through 2x 42r's and 3x 35r's.
Some people have luck with specific parts and companies. I'm no different.
in my experience Sean is right, every turbo requires a little more attention to certain details than others to work better/longer.
and one customer just told me his 3574R garrett CHRA cracked through the coolant passage, i'm starting to lean on not using garret for anything serious anymore, they're too expensive to repair and seem to be quite fragile where it counts(with the exception of wheels exploding... haha).
and one customer just told me his 3574R garrett CHRA cracked through the coolant passage, i'm starting to lean on not using garret for anything serious anymore, they're too expensive to repair and seem to be quite fragile where it counts(with the exception of wheels exploding... haha).
I had a T04Z that wound up having the same water jacket failure. It happens, When you consider the sheer number of turbo's Garrett makes and then the fact that their failure rate is below 2% I'd say that is pretty reliable and yet at the same time due to the numbers a lot of failures. I have never had a 42R fail and of the I don't know how many 35R's I've moved I can count on one hand the number of bad ones. I have a customer car here now with the same 35R T3 kit I sold him in 03 still running strong. It does seem to me those older 35R's spun better and were pretty darn solid. The precision stuff I haven't had much issue with it's either bad out the box (mainly my experience with Garrett) or someone screws up something. I rent my dyno out a lot I see a ton of precision stuff on there along with the other two and they all perform pretty reliably. Just had a 62/66 dyno 783whp@30psi on a 1.8ltr so they can put down decent numbers.
~S~
~S~
Straight from the evo guys....there's anything but love in this thread..seemed like nothing but cracks and failures...
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136273
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136273
I've had the same cracked housing failures on Garrett T4's usually they are either blanketed or wrapped or timing is so off the EGT's are through the roof. Two separate road course guys from Canada destroyed T4 1.0 divided housings in no time one summer, completely disintegrated the divider. I've had 35R CHRA's fail on tracked FD's and BW's fail on drag cars, it happens. I have a EVO shop four doors down from me that buys I don't know how many Precisions and so far one problem over the past few years. Same with the honda shop right next door one issue. These aren't limited to little street cars either over 1kawhp at 45psi on a 6766 or just over a week ago 6266 dynoed 783whp@ 30psi on a 1.8ltr. How many BW EFR turbo's were being chewed through on certain time attack cars, that no one seems to hear about? dozen? More? I don't run around bashing the turbo, they sorted through it. People will buy a said product misuse or abuse the crap out of said product and then claim said product sucks. Unless any one of those people can say I've sold hundreds of these and dozens of them are failing it's all a relative perspective from a biased source more often than not. Mono4lamar is a prime example basically saying Garretts are ****, few people would associate "Garrett" with poor quality but from his perspective and his experience he is biased to lean to that conclusion. I sell all three companies and all three perform very well, with honestly Garrett having the lowest amount of issues I have seen as a percentage of turbos sold. Seeing as I have sold way more Garrett's than anything it will tend to lean that way though. If I didn't feel comfortable selling the Precision turbo's I wouldn't bother.
~S~
~S~
I like how in the beginning it states that precision is not a terrible product in an article titled "beware before you buy" then goes down a laundry list of reasons why it is inferior to the garrett turbo. if this doesn't seem like a ploy to you, ive got some swamp land for sale ;-)