Is EFR right for me?
07-10-16, 08:17 PM
#26
WANKfactor
Im wondering if 1.05EWG 7670 would be a fix for the strained top end performance i'm seeing on the dynographs getting posted..? On paper a compressor that size - especially extended tip - should cheerfully do its job to redline at moderate pump fuel friendly boost levels without dropping off. Would probably be the most likely to fit to a conventional aftermarket manifold in a tight engine bay too (not everyone has an FD, lol).
That is a good question.
Would running 1.05 EWG 7670 on low boost where you aren't maxing out the compressor flow provide more peak power than the 0.92 IWG version.
My gut says you would get 10-15rwhp peak in the 350rwhp range, but it would be a totally different application. One goes Pshaaaa and the other goes BWAAAAAAA.
Sorry I didn't get a dual port boost controller going on my 7670 with 1.05AR and dual 44mm wastegates so we could see the low boost top end.
How many people want this BWAAAAAAA when they could just turn up the boost a tiny bit and get the same power with Pshaaaaaaa?
07-10-16, 10:50 PM
#28
Nice. Im not getting droning on my 8374 ewg. But ive got the largest, best quality straight through muffler and resonator i could find. Keeping it as quiet as possible without shutting down flow was the priority. Sounds brilliant on low boost when winding it out.
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
07-10-16, 11:19 PM
#29
WANKfactor
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
I only did EWG.
My point was why would you put up with the constant racket of EWG on low boost where it will be open so much of the time when you could do IWG and run 1psi more boost to make up the power difference?
I mean 15psi boost (low boost) comes up pretty fast on the 7670. Also, anything over 1/2 throttle is going to be 15psi boost over about 4,000rpm.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
I only did EWG.
My point was why would you put up with the constant racket of EWG on low boost where it will be open so much of the time when you could do IWG and run 1psi more boost to make up the power difference?
I mean 15psi boost (low boost) comes up pretty fast on the 7670. Also, anything over 1/2 throttle is going to be 15psi boost over about 4,000rpm.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
07-10-16, 11:28 PM
#30
By droning I was just referring to the ugly rotary exhaust note that doesn't change pitch much with rpms, just gets louder and louder again when the EWG opens.
I was really happy with the Vibrant Performance "Street Power" muffler that I used. It didn't have any resonant frequency drone like the original fart cannon style muffler that was on the JIC Spec 90 exhaust did.
I was really happy with the Vibrant Performance "Street Power" muffler that I used. It didn't have any resonant frequency drone like the original fart cannon style muffler that was on the JIC Spec 90 exhaust did.
07-10-16, 11:35 PM
#31
Are you talking about screamer pipe wastegates? I was thinking plumb back. My only point of reference is my own car which is plumb back. Still, with absolutely no concrete evidence to back me whatsoever im going to have to disagree that the difference between the bigger and smaller housings on such a small turbo will be as little as 1psi and 10hp, lol
Nice vid btw. Not droney at all. That boost response was nuts.
Nice vid btw. Not droney at all. That boost response was nuts.
07-11-16, 12:20 AM
#33
WANKfactor
Are you talking about screamer pipe wastegates? I was thinking plumb back. My only point of reference is my own car which is plumb back.
Oh... that is totally different then. Yes, I was talking about externally vented external wastegates like on my car in the vids.
You are just talking about the minor difference between 0.92AR and 1.05AR exhaust housings then. Plumb back in EWG will have the same effect as IWG on top end power.
Several threads over the years on this forum of people dyno-ing their same car before and after plumbing EWG back in and from what I saw it takes off ~15-30rwhp peak on ~400rwp car.
Are you talking about screamer pipe wastegates? I was thinking plumb back. My only point of reference is my own car which is plumb back.
Oh... that is totally different then. Yes, I was talking about externally vented external wastegates like on my car in the vids.
You are just talking about the minor difference between 0.92AR and 1.05AR exhaust housings then. Plumb back in EWG will have the same effect as IWG on top end power.
Several threads over the years on this forum of people dyno-ing their same car before and after plumbing EWG back in and from what I saw it takes off ~15-30rwhp peak on ~400rwp car.
07-11-16, 03:14 AM
#34
You dont think the bigger A/R would make better numbers?
As to the plumb back v screamer thing - i suspect a well designed set up would have less hp loss - shallow angled entries further downstream, bigger down pipe ect. Most the plumb back jobs I've seen have been horrible 90degree straight in type of affair. I speculate though - i've got nothing to really compare to. Happy to be corrected.
As to the plumb back v screamer thing - i suspect a well designed set up would have less hp loss - shallow angled entries further downstream, bigger down pipe ect. Most the plumb back jobs I've seen have been horrible 90degree straight in type of affair. I speculate though - i've got nothing to really compare to. Happy to be corrected.
07-11-16, 07:33 AM
#35
Plumbing back in EWG's will add cost, absolutely, but will be the most reliable way to run any boost you'd like without worry. I definitely like the simplicity of the IWG, but external gates are something you'll still set and forget just the same.
Another nice thing is you can go open dump EWG for a season, and re-route them any time. Not stuck with it by any means.
BlueTII - That response is awesome!
Another nice thing is you can go open dump EWG for a season, and re-route them any time. Not stuck with it by any means.
BlueTII - That response is awesome!
07-11-16, 09:26 PM
#36
Great vids blue. You definitely have the ultimate response setup. I'm coming around a little on 83 vs 76 for my needs. On the EWG topic. 5-7% power loss eh? So they say the IWG responds faster... Seems to me that would be a similar effect as a plumbed back EWG?
*Edit: Oops, just noticed you already said this verbatim in post #33
*Edit: Oops, just noticed you already said this verbatim in post #33
Last edited by aplscrambles; 07-12-16 at 12:57 PM.
07-11-16, 09:34 PM
#37
WANKfactor
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
I only did EWG.
My point was why would you put up with the constant racket of EWG on low boost where it will be open so much of the time when you could do IWG and run 1psi more boost to make up the power difference?
I mean 15psi boost (low boost) comes up pretty fast on the 7670. Also, anything over 1/2 throttle is going to be 15psi boost over about 4,000rpm.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
So what were your findings between the ewg and iwg apart from noise? Much difference in spool and top-end? I would have thought the more free flowing exhaust housing would be a pretty big advantage all round if it doesnt hurt spool too much.
I only did EWG.
My point was why would you put up with the constant racket of EWG on low boost where it will be open so much of the time when you could do IWG and run 1psi more boost to make up the power difference?
I mean 15psi boost (low boost) comes up pretty fast on the 7670. Also, anything over 1/2 throttle is going to be 15psi boost over about 4,000rpm.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
07-11-16, 10:31 PM
#39
I was just wondering if the a/r size on the 7670 makes much difference all things being equal. Could the 1.05 7670 be the difference for someone who isnt sure whether they want an 83 or a 76? I know i could have gone either way when i was choosing - the 76 ewg would have been cheaper and easier for my application fitment wise.
Last edited by WANKfactor; 07-11-16 at 10:33 PM.
07-11-16, 11:51 PM
#41
I mean 15psi boost (low boost) comes up pretty fast on the 7670. Also, anything over 1/2 throttle is going to be 15psi boost over about 4,000rpm.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
You can see this pretty well in this video too.
Right off the line where I am babying it through 1st gear and its still boosting away at 15psi.
You can see how fast it builds boost back up on the 2-3 and 2-3-4 shifts on the short straight and the longer straight too.
Don't mind the driving, I was having fun playing with the new turbo response. I did try smooth and it was faster.
On my boost gauge (lower gauge) 15psi is with the needle straight up. 26psi when the wastegates opens is when it is nearly at the horizontal 3o-clock position.
You can see this pretty well in this video too.
Right off the line where I am babying it through 1st gear and its still boosting away at 15psi.
You can see how fast it builds boost back up on the 2-3 and 2-3-4 shifts on the short straight and the longer straight too.
Don't mind the driving, I was having fun playing with the new turbo response. I did try smooth and it was faster.
07-13-16, 07:53 AM
#42
Plumbing back in EWG's will add cost, absolutely, but will be the most reliable way to run any boost you'd like without worry. I definitely like the simplicity of the IWG, but external gates are something you'll still set and forget just the same.
Another nice thing is you can go open dump EWG for a season, and re-route them any time. Not stuck with it by any means.
BlueTII - That response is awesome!
Another nice thing is you can go open dump EWG for a season, and re-route them any time. Not stuck with it by any means.
BlueTII - That response is awesome!
i will agree the EWG is better for peak power, i agree with blueTII, just run a few more psi boost to compensate. the drawbacks arent worth it. if power is really a concern, run the 8374. from looking at dyno sheets, the 8374 low end power is very similar to 7670 if not the same. not sure how different the transient response is though.
anyway the IWG is perfect for optimizing response, the manifold runners can be shorter without diversions, and boost control is way better with the wastegate runners as close as possible to the turbine wheel (IWG usually can hold lower boost with much smaller wastegate holes compared to EWG)
that and i really hate that dumped EWG sound lol
07-14-16, 06:51 PM
#43
I am going to throw a twist/monkey wrench into the discussion. My original question was, is efr right for me? So I owe it to myself to consider other setups that might work that could be considerable less expensive and save me money, and maybe would satisfy me. What about bnr's? What about the gt35, (m24, a/r.70, 1.06 hotside that came off the car that I already have? It spooled slow IMO, but maybe that was setup, injector, the shitty leaking chinese manifold, leaking vaccuum lines, poor tune problems, or porting issues, who knows. Thoughts?
Last edited by aplscrambles; 07-14-16 at 06:58 PM.
07-14-16, 07:35 PM
#44
Yeah, stock twins spool very well and do 350rwhp fairly easily with bolt ons.
If you have a tight budget and have the technical ability you can troubleshoot and re-assemble the sequential turbo system.
Don't bother with BNRs if you are on a budget, they just do high boost (over 14psi) much more reliably than 100% stock twins for that final push from 350rwp to 400rwhp ... if you have all your ducks in a row on the rest of the set-up.
If you have a tight budget and have the technical ability you can troubleshoot and re-assemble the sequential turbo system.
Don't bother with BNRs if you are on a budget, they just do high boost (over 14psi) much more reliably than 100% stock twins for that final push from 350rwp to 400rwhp ... if you have all your ducks in a row on the rest of the set-up.
07-14-16, 08:19 PM
#45
Yeah, stock twins spool very well and do 350rwhp fairly easily with bolt ons.
If you have a tight budget and have the technical ability you can troubleshoot and re-assemble the sequential turbo system.
Don't bother with BNRs if you are on a budget, they just do high boost (over 14psi) much more reliably than 100% stock twins for that final push from 350rwp to 400rwhp ... if you have all your ducks in a row on the rest of the set-up.
If you have a tight budget and have the technical ability you can troubleshoot and re-assemble the sequential turbo system.
Don't bother with BNRs if you are on a budget, they just do high boost (over 14psi) much more reliably than 100% stock twins for that final push from 350rwp to 400rwhp ... if you have all your ducks in a row on the rest of the set-up.
Well you have sort of opened up a whole can of worms with that statement. Suppose these cars become much more valuable over the next 20 years. Wouldn't a prospective buyer peering into the engine bay and seeing stock twins get a bit of a chub as he reaches for his wallet?... That is to say, someone, that can make twins reach near 400 reliably on pump, with well-ducted cooloing systems, appear stock under hood, eliminate the questions of which tuner to use, which efr kit, even though it will undoubtedbly retain heat more than any well sorted single setup. Wouldnt part of your brain say its more reliable in a way simply because its oem-ish? Forgive me--thinking outloud....this doesn't mean I'm straying from the idea of efr is king.
07-14-16, 08:37 PM
#47
Full Member
Well you have sort of opened up a whole can of worms with that statement. Suppose these cars become much more valuable over the next 20 years. Wouldn't a prospective buyer peering into the engine bay and seeing stock twins get a bit of a chub as he reaches for his wallet?... That is to say, someone, that can make twins reach near 400 reliably on pump, with well-ducted cooloing systems, appear stock under hood, eliminate the questions of which tuner to use, which efr kit, even though it will undoubtedbly retain heat more than any well sorted single setup. Wouldnt part of your brain say its more reliable in a way simply because its oem-ish? Forgive me--thinking outloud....this doesn't mean I'm straying from the idea of efr is king.
07-14-16, 09:24 PM
#49
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In any case, a turbo swap is a completely reversible modification.
07-14-16, 09:51 PM
#50
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Funny to see the 35R called a laggy turbo, not too long ago was the Ultimate FD street turbo.
I think it's that piece o garbage manifold and I'm sure other factors in the engine bay.
I love BNRs, rocked them for so many years, and my brother's SSM that I helped him build has them and it's awesome. Having said that, I love the single setup and wouldn't go back.....
I think it's that piece o garbage manifold and I'm sure other factors in the engine bay.
I love BNRs, rocked them for so many years, and my brother's SSM that I helped him build has them and it's awesome. Having said that, I love the single setup and wouldn't go back.....