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EFR 9180 Max power runs

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Old 09-10-17, 07:57 AM
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EFR 9180 Max power runs

I thought I would share the results from one of the EFR 9180s we supplied at Abel at FR performance.
The car has been run on both the 1.45 and 1.05, and its moving back to the 1.05. I am going to try and get a high boost back to back between the two housings. Abel claims the 1.45 only helps hold the power for a few more hundred rpms on the top end, but hurts the powerband considerable by adding more lag. The car is being filmed next week for street racing show. Videos, etc will be available then.

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Old 09-10-17, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
I thought I would share the results from one of the EFR 9180s we supplied at Abel at FR performance.
The car has been run on both the 1.45 and 1.05, and its moving back to the 1.05. I am going to try and get a high boost back to back between the two housings. Abel claims the 1.45 only helps hold the power for a few more hundred rpms on the top end, but hurts the powerband considerable by adding more lag. The car is being filmed next week for street racing show. Videos, etc will be available then.

NO.

There's not enough fuel for that to be possible on a 13B-RE running e85. This is absolute bullshit. Not blaming you, but it's obvious there's misinformation here, so don't spread it.
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Old 09-10-17, 04:45 PM
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I figure it's actually got enough fuel for around 876rwhp on pure e85. I'm not sure the exact concentration he's on, although I can look it up in the ECU logs when I get a moment.
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Old 09-10-17, 06:28 PM
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That car is a rocket
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Old 09-10-17, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Turblown View Post
I figure it's actually got enough fuel for around 876rwhp on pure e85. I'm not sure the exact concentration he's on, although I can look it up in the ECU logs when I get a moment.
How do you figure this?

Mind going through the calculations with me on here? This is news to me.
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Old 09-10-17, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
NO.

There's not enough fuel for that to be possible on a 13B-RE running e85. This is absolute bullshit. Not blaming you, but it's obvious there's misinformation here, so don't spread it.

Not exactly sure where he says how much fuel it has to make that statement. There are 13Bs making that kinda power, but my biggest concern is that it'd take about 110 LB/HR of compressor flow to do it, and the 9180 is all out of breath at 95 LB/HR. That said, 841whp at 400kpa is only 210whp normalized power, considerably on the conservative side for a SemiPP RE motor, unless exhaust back pressure is bananas.
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Old 09-11-17, 03:33 AM
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And what shaftspeed and turbine backpressure, may I ask? This is very interesting.

I have tons of data of the IWG 9180 running 32psi flat till 9k rpm on a mild streetport.
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Old 09-11-17, 07:19 PM
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It's okay, this is a nitrous + meth/water injection dyno run. Not purely 4x ID2000s.

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Old 09-11-17, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chamama View Post
And what shaftspeed and turbine backpressure, may I ask? This is very interesting.

I have tons of data of the IWG 9180 running 32psi flat till 9k rpm on a mild streetport.
I assume shaft speed is through the roof( like getting ready to blow the turbine in half), and exhaust back pressure is also the same.

Thanks for the email early BTW!
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Old 09-12-17, 06:49 AM
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So would that be 700ish whp on a DD or mainline chassis dyno?

can the adaptronic do target pressure and max shaft speed based wastegate control at the same time?
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Old 09-13-17, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
It's okay, this is a nitrous + meth/water injection dyno run. Not purely 4x ID2000s.
It's a Semi-P you're not surprised that it would have a custom LIM? Perhaps one with 4 injectors?
I guess 6xID2000 is impossible?
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Old 09-13-17, 09:55 AM
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Can someone explain what's going on in this thread?
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Old 09-13-17, 10:41 AM
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Abel Ibarra added 2 new photos.
September 8 at 9:08pm

How you like me now �� no it not on 91 no it's not 10 psi no it's not na and there are no Doritos here
Quote that accompanied the photos on Facebook.

Looks like 2J dyno to me. I can't see a 13B lagging that bad on a little 9180.
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Old 09-13-17, 11:40 AM
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😂 this thread is great. You guys want my go pro footage?
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Old 09-13-17, 11:52 AM
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Who says "no" to videos?
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Old 09-13-17, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
Quote that accompanied the photos on Facebook.

Looks like 2J dyno to me. I can't see a 13B lagging that bad on a little 9180.
Wasn't April Fools' day a while back? A 2JZ would make sense. No way in hell a rotary is making those numbers with 1 9180 and on boost alone.
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Old 09-13-17, 02:52 PM
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That text wasn't on Abel's Facebook post, Elliot added that.




However, I did find this looking at the comments on the individual dyno sheet photo instead of the comments in the post of the two photos.

Abel Ibarra Melly Mel Cosmo bridge semi pp on e85
So, I don't know what Abel meant by "there are no Doritos here"

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Old 09-13-17, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by arghx View Post
Can someone explain what's going on in this thread?
TLDR version: People on the Internet are questioning how the arguably most famous rotary drag racer in the world makes horsepower.
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Old 09-13-17, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by HyperRex View Post
TLDR version: People on the Internet are questioning how the arguably most famous rotary drag racer in the world makes horsepower.
Bingo!!! 😂✔
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Old 09-14-17, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperRex View Post
TLDR version: People on the Internet are questioning how the arguably most famous rotary drag racer in the world makes horsepower.
What's there to argue?
A well-tuned rotary takes about 0.13 pounds per minute of compressor flow per wheel HP.
The number hes claiming is WAY off the deep end of the compressor map. The 9180 can make a max of 95lb/hr.
The power hes claiming to make would take 105lb/hr. Hes 100whp higher than the next highest claim for that turbo on a rotary.
I know hes one of the best rotary tuners around, but he cant make a turbo do more than its designed to do.
If this were a much more efficient piston engine, then itd be much more reasonable. But there is no way that turbo made those number on a properly calibrated dyno.
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Old 09-14-17, 09:07 AM
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as you can see the EFR9180 is in stall/max air at 95 pounds per minute. the wheel is doing 116,000 RPM which is BW's max suggested RPM.

since the line is vertical there is no more air.

power is about burning oxygen. once you have burned the O there is no more power available UNLESS you are adding additional O contained in the base fuel or are using something similar to NO2.

various types of engines produce different amounts of power from X amount of O.

generally, piston engines max out around a 10 to one ratio w the mass of air injested. a piston engine would max out around 950 rwhp from the 95 pounds of air.

a pretty good relationship for the typical rotary would be taking the piston output and dividing it by 1.3. 950 / 1.3 = 730 rw rotary hp

or CFM / 1.92

95 X 14.471 = 1375 (CFM) / 1.92 = 716 rw rotary hp.

based on the above the power looks around 14% high.

i am very comfortable on the above calculations for a non peripheral port motor but have no idea re a peripheral ported motor. when i raced in SCCA (NA) i ran J ported motors which are extreme bridgeports.

SCCA added a considerable penalty to peripheral ported motors.

my Roger Mandeville/Daryl Drummond motors made 259 flywheel hp (12A) whereas the 12A peripherals were just over 300.

i totally agree w the previous posts about the 9180 as to MAX air at 95 but the peripheral conversion may (probably is) larger so the power is certainly possible.

it would be nice if the dyno sheet was in SAE and was also a complete sheet w RPM etc. i realize that the OP just copied what was avail on the FB page.

the interesting takeaway here is that the peripheral port changes the relationship between airflow and power.

most of the time there is a large trade-off as to range of power and peak power. my J port motors made power only, and i mean only, between 7000 and 10,000. that may be the reason for the highly redacted dyno sheet.

that is also the reason i ran a Saenz adj ratio five speed.

Last edited by Howard Coleman CPR; 09-15-17 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 09-14-17, 06:40 PM
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There will be two effects which help the semi PP to potentially eclipse side port air efficiency slightly, which might, in combination with long injector to port volume/flash time improve air efficiency enough to be reasonable. I had previously figured this turbo was good for close to a max 700 DD whp on a side port which when converted using the figure turblown suggest for soft American horses could be reasonable.

So obvious his intercooling, exhaust and ignition tuning will be as good or better than anyone running a sideport motor. Also the large injector to chamber distance gives the very best post intercooled evaporative charge cooling, more density for less turbo pumping effort (remembering that neither the turbine or compressor are anywhere near 100% efficient so a small pumping gain is a big difference in EMP and exhaust stroke pumping loss). Potentially quiet a few % just there in total air efficiency in reduced pumping loss/lowered EMP from lower compressor required power to move the same air mass to the motor and slightly lower dump pressure with good exhaust requiring less EMP again for the required PR drop over turbine for that shaft power delivery.

Then you go to specifics of semi PP. The semi PP presents less intake flow resistance, but also depending on the engine speed represents less inefficient chamber compression due to LATE port close with intercooled charge air to the same final mass vs early port close higher compression ratio and pumping loss while achieving the same chamber charge mass and power stroke expansion ratio. I'm pretty sure this is why all the very late close big EP/BP/PP motors still make really good turbo power at lower rpm (but high boost) on turbos which arguably are "too small" for the NA peak power rpm of the motor and target boost would suggest. It is effectively running a modest miller cycle. Not as radical as you might do with a piston motor designed for fixed operating conditions but it would seem enough difference in air efficiency to show on the dyno. Given they actually run thier cars on the strip, mass and terminal speed would stop the bullshit so they have no reason to try and tweak dyno figures like guys who only "race the rollers"?

Last edited by Slides; 09-14-17 at 06:44 PM.
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