diesel dakota

HI guys I've got a track day car that I am building up.
I have a manifold on EFR 8374 IWG bolted up and I'm looking into what I should run for a fuel setup.

I already have a power fc and stock fuel setup.
I have a friend that offered me his setup from last year for 300$
It looks to be a KGP secondary rail with 1600cc's (1680's?) another friend of me told me that this was a not so great price for this stuff used, what do you guys think?




because of school etc I don't have endless money to burn on the car. My plan was to get it working and then upgrade later in the summer or next winter once I'm working. I also was planning on getting away from the powerfc to a more modern ecu as well but its also not in the budget for now.

huge power is not the goal, I was planning to run around 10-15psi. I wanted fast spool and good track reliability.
So what are some of the other options for fuel setups?
my second friend suggested that I just pick up some EV-14 2000cc's and a secondary rail, is this a good option? Am I able to rig in the stock fpr or will I need to switch to aftermarket?

unwritten-dinasty

1680 secondarys are fine even up to around 18/19psi you should be good. Have them clean/flow tested and offer $200/225 tops for it.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I suggest doing the EV14 2000CC route with a secondary rail. You will need a FPR.

I just tuned a car here that runs this exact set up. he went with the Full function engineering secondary rail package they offer.

The injectors were purchased through fuel injector connection. you will need a skinny block off plate for the UIM to run the FFE rail, you will also want the little O-rings that go around the injectors (they fit like money.

I have the full primary and secondary rails from FFE and all the O-rings and run an aeromotive A1000-6 FPR. mine runs great as well.

The guy who I just tuned runs an AEM 320LPH fuel pump. I think he got it for 80-100 shipped off amazon. I run the supra denso 290LPH fuel pump in mine. both hold good pressure for what we use (17-18PSI at altitude on GT35 turbo's (what we maxed tuning at).

diesel dakota

I know one of the local rotary gurus makes an adaptor so that the stock fd regulator can be run on aftermarket rails. I was thinking about that as that would save me quite alot of $ over an aftermarket fpr.


I already have a blockoff plate and have the tools to trim it down if needed. Is this really needed though? it seems you can buy the EV14's in 38mm 48mm or 60mm. Couldn't you just get a shorter injector and the matching rail and have it clear? what is causing the interference? I tried looking up and there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to pick 38mm over 48 or 60, is that true? the oring you are talking about are the ones FFE makes?
2000cc FIC BOSCH Top-Feed High-Impedance Injector | IRPerformance
Lower O-Ring Inserts | Full Function Engineering



I won't be upgrading my primaries in the near future for cost reasons even then the stock 550's and 2000's should extend far beyond my goals. I already have a better than stock fuel pump but I may upgrade it later this year.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

1680/550 will give you low 400 rwhp
2000/550 will give you ~450 rwhp

I would go with the 2000's cause you don't have to run resistors and you get that extra little bit of room. Running stock primaries is always a bad idea on a big power build though. Their 22-23 years old now and have a caused a great many engines to blow due to sticking and then the blame goes to the engine of coarse.

thewird

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Bosch ev14s or Injector Dynamics in 750/2000. Get ride of those stock primaries and 1970s technology 1680s. The car will be much easier to tune, smoother, and safer. I stock everything you need.

diesel dakota

It hurts a lot more here in Canada since the exchange rate is so bad. The difference in cost between the 1680's and 2000's are about 600$CAD by my calculation. Since my friend is willing to lend me a datalogit for the season to get the tune dialed in it works out to more like 800-900$ difference.

I will be graduating from university in a few months so money will likely be more plentiful later this year but right now im far from loaded. On the other hand im not gonna let my car sit for the summer while I save up money. That's kind of why I like the cheaper route but the intent is still to upgrade to modern tech down the road.

I would like to replace the primaries as well but it's not affordable right now. This isn't necissarily a big power build. I picked the 8374 because I wanted fast spool and I didn't want to be choked down at high rpms on the track, it has te added benefit of having lots of headroom if I want to turn up the power.

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

im curious with those newer style injectors that have a better spray pattern, do you remove the diffuser thing in the intake manifold? Do you need to add something in its place

diesel dakota

I would like to but I'm not willing to sink that much money into my toy right now. Do you guys offer a secondary rail kit or do I need to piece it together myself? When I was pricing everything out I was using FFE's step up kit minus injectors and your 2000's

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

I used to have 550 primaries and 1600cc. The transition was tuned decent but after i got 850 primaries the tune was a lot smoother

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

You might want to read this before considering using the oem FD reg:

http://www.adaptronic.com.au/fuel-pressure-regs-is-there-much-of-a-difference/

3rdgensleeper

iTrader: (10)

Maybe I missed it but a very important part of this equation is what type of fuel do you plan to run?

I would do 750/2000 combination personally. It's the safest set up you can go with for pump and low boost ethanol set up.

I do have some ID2000s for sale lol just throwing that out there.

One word of advise I always give people is do it right the first time and you don't have to do it more than once.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

fuel is the last place to cut costs. I would rather run a lot more fuel with a ton of overhead than buying an expensive turbo and cheaping on the fuel.

Unfortunately the fuel part is the most important part of the equation. same with the clutch. those were my two largest costs on my car when I went single turbo.

off the top of my head. these were my costs when I upgraded my car in 2011 or 2012.

EV14 injectors 650cc primary, 2000cc secondary ($411 shipped from fuel injector connection)
Aeromotive FPR ($158 shipped of ebay)
Fuel lines made by myself ($100 for everything) parallel set up.
AEM fuel pump if going that route 320LPH ($80 shipped)
fuel rail set up $240.

total cost $989

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

I took mine out. runs great, idles great, good flow up top.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

Might be under setting 5 in powerFC, transition may have been too high with too much time.


running larger primaries than 650CC requires negative injector lag in a powerFC.

diesel dakota

that's an interesting read for sure, I wonder if there is a more in depth study of aftermarket fpr's where they are actually compared.

diesel dakota

I'll be running pump gas for street, we can get 93 octane up here, and I may or may not pick up some race fuel or something for track days. has anyone one ran avegas in these things, 100low lead?

my research shows that for my goals ID2000's over just regular EV14 2000's that aren't flow matched (etc) would be a waste of cash, and your ID2000's are more expensive than new EV2000's from IRPerformance.com

As far as doing it right the first time I agree, I would definitely like to but I have other priorities in life for my money.
For my friends used setup I could be out 300$ and spend a bunch of time tuning a setup that I will be moving away from in the future, but he was also get me a map that I can start from and he was going to lend me his datalogit for the season, so I save 200-350$ not needing to buy that.

If I buy new secondary rails and injectors I will have to buy a datalogit to tune and a fprr. I will still have to retune if I get a modern ecu and primaries in the future so time and money is still wasted, how ever the new injectors will probably tune better and be more reliable.

replacing the entire fuel system would be ideal, when I switch to a newer ecu I will still have to retune but I wouldn't have to touch the fueling again. but it will cost quite a bit of cash, especially with the Canadian dollar somewhere down around 0.70$ per us dollar. So 1400$ for a full system from IRPerformance.com is over 2000$ at my door

3rdgensleeper

iTrader: (10)

Yeah I have them priced at 390shipped per pair that's over 40 off new as these are freshly cleaned and in new condition. I feel it's a fair price. The EV14s are good injectors but as you know they are not matched as the IDs are.

3rdgensleeper

iTrader: (10)

I get what you are saying here but I just have a different mindset I guess. I would rather budget and get it done the first time and not have to do it over again. Running a Fuel set up that is less than ideal is dangerous to yourself as well as your motor. To your point about tuning, you can not run a map that your buddy has and expect it to be safe. There are to many variables in the set up, you can "run" the car off his map I am sure but I would not boost it.

diesel dakota

EV14 injectors 750cc primary, 2000cc secondary ($411 shipped from fuel injector connection)
now 458 not shipped from IRperformance.com no canadian shipping calculator

Aeromotive FPR ($158 shipped of ebay) 179 from Irperformance.com

Fuel lines made by myself ($100 for everything) parallel set up. lets assume the same price but I doubt it

AEM fuel pump if going that route 320LPH ($80 shipped)
Walbro 400lph Intank Fuel Pump + Fitting Kit (F90000262) is 225$ but my pump is good enough for a while unless I up my goals.

fuel rail set up $240. now 286

add 100$ for shipping

total cost $989 1348US dollars now
if you drop the pump its 1125$ and I tyhink the lines would be a bit more expensive, might as well get the IRperformance kit as it has all the same parts +60$ in those oring inserts

diesel dakota

Ya I get that as well, my friends map would only be a starting point as its at least tuned for the same injection setup, so most of the off boost stuff should be pretty good and the boosted part of the map should be reasonably close.

diesel dakota

ya for sure, I just don't feel for my goals I need the matched injectors, I won't be going for crazy power, I have also yet to read anyone speak about the non matched EV14's in a negative way so I still imagine they work great.

3rdgensleeper

iTrader: (10)

That's true, and to your point on the boosting the car... It really matters what turbo he was running, different boost response different cfm, different fuel curve needed.

Mitchocalypse

iTrader: (2)

do we need to get Mr. Howard Coleman in here to show us the calculations for exactly how much fuel injectors and pumps he need to blow his engine?

3rdgensleeper

iTrader: (10)

Not sure what you are trying to say here bud, unless you are trying to be sarcastic. If you were trying to be sarcastic, let me fill you in on why I stated what you had quoted.... He said he was going to run the map his buddy was running with this exact set up... But he has a different turbo and who knows is VE is the same. So running his map thinking "I can boost this no problem" is a bad idea and felt I should throw cation to that. It is that type of thinking that blows to many rotaries and give the "unreliable stereotype.

If you were not trying to be sarcastic than a I am sorry.