Full-Race Geoff

hey I dont post on here too often, but wanted to give my 2cents. I have limited rotary experience, but the few guys ive worked with they are like any other motor and hate restriction on the turbine side. One friend had a very accomplished 13b road race/drift car, so we tested a twinscroll gt3071R . it had decent response, the engine didnt miss a beat but the WG and turbine housing melted lol. we switched to s300sx and the car gained power spoolup and response everywhere in the powerband. it was a low boost setup but worked extremely well

I agree with your decision to use the .91 a/r on the cupped tip turbine wheel Ive used the 1.00 a/r on occasion and its just a little too lazy. the quicker response on the 0.91 I think is worth it unless you need to run higher boost. We have one person who will try this same turbo on a 0.83 a/r because his 2jzge will not see "Gte" boost levels so they prefer a little quicker spool. We also have had a lot of diesel customers who love this turbo and run a lot of boost on the .83 a/r. last but not least - you get the 6 pad bearing and machining associated with that. on a rotary i'd want all the thrust handling capabilities possible, and there is no journal bearing from any other mfg burlier than this

attached is my friend's photos he sent me of the car in progress, s400sx is BIG

Grinch

iTrader: (2)

Any updates on this? Can't decide on this or a persison 6266

Gilgamesh

considering i picked up a brand new from a dealer s366 for under 700 shipped..... its a no brainer for me.

ScorpionT

iTrader: (3)

BW. The quality of the turbos is superior and they stand behind their products.

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

No updates yet. I have been out of town the past 2 weeks. I'm probably going to start fitting things up this or next weekend.

bdarepat

Any update on this?

The reason I am asking is that I am pretty close to ordering an S300SX FMW myself, but facts about its performance in the real world seem hard to find.

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

I am curious how the s300x compares to a journal bearing TD61x as far as response and power potential. I think that power should be pretty much the same, but I am super curious about the response.

These two turbos seem to be the new "celebrities" as everyone is talking about them.

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Im keen to see how you go too.

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

So I FINALLY started my build thread. I still need some components, but I should at least have the FD pulled in the garage to start initial fitment soon.

https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...2-1-a-1029178/

bdarepat

Due to my prolonged wait in a queue for BW to produce some decent quantities of their EFR 8374 turbos and the almost total lack of solid performance figures for them produced on 13B motors atm, I have also purchased an S300SX FMW in the above configuration instead.

Do I sound a little frustrated?

Probably.

wangracing

^^^ Was waiting on the EFR7670 myself. Would be a year now. Was over Full Race lack of feedback and ability to honour a delivery date so have grabbed a TDX61R ball bearing unit from Elliot at Turblown with his new twin 11 blade billet comp wheel. Just waiting on completing my build to fit it.

Full-Race Geoff

with regards to rotary 13B applications - the S300SX FMW is a great match. Everything that makes the standard S300 turbos good is improved, one of the better journal bearing turbos on the market - especially for the 75lb flow rate (gt35R, pt62, etc). The cupped tip turbine wheel and housing options are high flowing which compliments these engines. Weve had great feedback since this turbo came out last year, a lot of people requesting a larger S300SX fmw with 80lb/hr flow rate, so that is coming from BW next. fortunately they CAN ship those..



sorry youve both been frustrated with BorgWarner, you are not alone.. nobody expected it could take this long to get their act together.. we are receiving some 8374's and 9180's again but for how long I do not know.

wangracing - Still no 7670's, but if youre looking at a 61mm turbo that is 8374 size and we are seeing them with more consistency than some of the other models

chohakai

iTrader: (1)

Geoff,

Great to see you pitching in. Howard Coleman insisted that the EFR turbine wheels are not heat resistant enough for the rotary heat, which could be over 1700 degrees, while those wheels are rated to 1600 or so.

Can you confirm that? If that's the case then the S300SX FMW is the way to go over the EFR 8374's anyways. They are very similar, except EFR's cost more and are ball bearing, and should be more responsive due to the exotic meterial and lightweight exhaust wheel, correct?

Thanks!

bdarepat

I recently posed the EFR Ti turbine temperature range question to Turbo Dynamics Limited, the UK BW distributor. Their response was as follows:-

'Hi Mike,
This is what BW say – “950C is the rated max for the Ti wheel. That being said, we have a diesel drag race truck that is running somewhere north of that figure. I recall it being at appx 1100C for a period of about 6-7 seconds.”
Not an overly clear answer, but gives you an idea.
Kind regards,
Tom Russell
Turbo Dynamics Limited'

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

"Howard Coleman insisted that the EFR turbine wheels are not heat resistant enough for the rotary heat"

that is not what i said.

i am considering an EFR 9180 for my Texas Mile event. i have a contact who is part of the developmental process at BW-USA.

i was informed that the EFR hotside is questionable at 1650 F (890 C) and above.

if this is accurate, and it comes from BW, this may or may not rule out the EFR line for many rotaries.

i found, during the 10 years i raced and built full tilt piston motors that 1322 F produced the best power. rotaries are more like 1500 to 1800 F.

during a 5 year period (04-09) when i was dynoing w 93 pump and approx 1200 cc of meth my EGTs topped out around 1750 at 8000.

after more than doubling the meth my EGTs were stable at 1550 F.

i don't have any data on E85 ATM but i expect that EGTs will be low. my car is now converted to a Flex Fuel config and should be on the dyno and generating the E85 EGT data i need. if the EGTs are below 1650 i will be lobbying BW for a 9180 as it has an awesome compressor map.

i am aware that there are some EFR turbos in rotary service currently and am only sharing info that might prove helpful. if you are running w gas as base fuel and a typical 50/50 WM AI i would be cautious w re to the EFR turbo line.

i am merely passing on info from a source which i consider to be solid.

howard

Full-Race Geoff

yes - there is no question that if you plan to over-heat or over-speed your turbo, the EFR is not going to take abuse like an old school inconel turbine.. HOWEVER if you can properly size a turbo to your engine (not overspeed) and tune it right - there is no reason exhaust should be >950C.

to the guy asking about a EFR7670, i think that is too small for a 13B.

**Its also important to mention a twinscroll "divided" turbo manifold/turbine housing will typically have lower EGT and higher deltaP than a 'singlescroll undivided' manifold

Full-Race Geoff

*replace >1650 with >950C

(i cant edit that post for some reason)

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

from "the efr god" at BW;


"950C should be communicated as the limit.

1742F

shaft speed should not exceed the top RPM line on each comp map."

this is a different (higher) number than i was previously advised and does open the EFR line to most rotary apps. i will edit the EFR thread.

howard

WANKfactor

iTrader: (1)

Is that the flat tip or the cupped tip? Im looking at getting an FMW as well, with the same goals as you described in the 1st post; 400+ rwhp and as much response and mid-range as possible.
Im tossing up between .91 and 1.00, "cupped" tip or "flat"
The Full race website states that the cupped tip is for max flow, the flat tip is for max spool - I was wondering how a .91 cupped would compare to a 1.00 flat?
Anyway, i'll be watching this thread with great interest!
Cheers and beers!

trinirx

whats the max whp on the s362sx fmw on a 13b?

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

5 million

chohakai

iTrader: (1)

It's probably the ideal turbo with great response for someone going for 450WHP to 500WHP on a 13B, at reasonable boost levels, say 20 psi or so, so it's steetable/trackable and not just for drag.

eliminster

To everyone having questions about the efrs and rotaries ask speed junkie about his. He is running the 7670 on his car and having no problems so far and he does drive his car pretty hard to include a cross the country trip in it.

Full-Race Geoff

is there a thread on this? Would love to see

Rotary engines benefit from free flowing hotsides, combine that with the fact that these are twinscroll setups theres really no reason to use flat tip for a 13B. Based on experience, I'd recommend cupped tip and .91 for up to 23psi, 1.00 for 24-28psi and 1.10 for 29+ max boost levels.

that is the idea behind the S300SX FMW, a 450-550whp turbo that fits a broad spectrum of cars with great durability and turbine housing selection, excellent response, good value.

for the drag racers the s400sx fmw would be the call, with a high flowing 4" downpipe

eliminster

His thread is under the single turbo section labeled EFR 7640 he also has a complete build thread on the Cmzc forum which entails his entire build. Would get an efr myself just don't have the money for it.