Borgwarner EFR 8474 Dyno Thread
09-06-19, 05:53 AM
#26
I’m by no means an expert in anything other than “dyslexic”, but i was kinda disappointed with that power figure for the fuel and boost.
Wouldn’t there be more power available for that amount of fuel, even for E85, and even allowing for a rich tune??
also to sort out the tune and get more towards redline, and while already strapped to the Dino, why wouldn’t you up the base fuel pressure, there is plenty of fuel pump headroom for that
i too have seen (on youtube so it must be true yeah???) similiar power from a 7670 on around 28-30psi and similiar power with less boost from a 8374.
Krem
Wouldn’t there be more power available for that amount of fuel, even for E85, and even allowing for a rich tune??
also to sort out the tune and get more towards redline, and while already strapped to the Dino, why wouldn’t you up the base fuel pressure, there is plenty of fuel pump headroom for that
i too have seen (on youtube so it must be true yeah???) similiar power from a 7670 on around 28-30psi and similiar power with less boost from a 8374.
Krem
09-06-19, 06:30 AM
#27
Braaaap Tshhhh!
I’m by no means an expert in anything other than “dyslexic”, but i was kinda disappointed with that power figure for the fuel and boost.
Wouldn’t there be more power available for that amount of fuel, even for E85, and even allowing for a rich tune??
also to sort out the tune and get more towards redline, and while already strapped to the Dino, why wouldn’t you up the base fuel pressure, there is plenty of fuel pump headroom for that
i too have seen (on youtube so it must be true yeah???) similiar power from a 7670 on around 28-30psi and similiar power with less boost from a 8374.
Krem
Wouldn’t there be more power available for that amount of fuel, even for E85, and even allowing for a rich tune??
also to sort out the tune and get more towards redline, and while already strapped to the Dino, why wouldn’t you up the base fuel pressure, there is plenty of fuel pump headroom for that
i too have seen (on youtube so it must be true yeah???) similiar power from a 7670 on around 28-30psi and similiar power with less boost from a 8374.
Krem
09-06-19, 09:34 AM
#29
Hes on 20 inch wheels, so its much easier to get the tires to spin.
A lot of you guys need to remember that this dyno reads lower than the most of the readings we are used to seeing on the dynojets stateside.
For example the 7670 EWG runs showing 400rwhp @ 22 psi, is what we usually see 450ish rwhp on with a dynojet. So if you want to try and compare more, think of adding 10% to Raceonly dyno.
Prelimary dyno results are show as, its always better to have more data, always.
Raceonly just tuned an 8374 with a similar port on E85 this morning( same cast kit) on E85. I will get that dyno sheet from Omar for a better comparison between the 8474 and 8374.
In a perfect world we would swap turbos and show back to back results etc. I need to finish a customers 8374 IWG in house build before I can move forward with any dyno comparison etc.
By monday we should see the HPB and Adam's 8474 builds both tuned at 30psi ish range.
A lot of you guys need to remember that this dyno reads lower than the most of the readings we are used to seeing on the dynojets stateside.
For example the 7670 EWG runs showing 400rwhp @ 22 psi, is what we usually see 450ish rwhp on with a dynojet. So if you want to try and compare more, think of adding 10% to Raceonly dyno.
Prelimary dyno results are show as, its always better to have more data, always.
Raceonly just tuned an 8374 with a similar port on E85 this morning( same cast kit) on E85. I will get that dyno sheet from Omar for a better comparison between the 8474 and 8374.
In a perfect world we would swap turbos and show back to back results etc. I need to finish a customers 8374 IWG in house build before I can move forward with any dyno comparison etc.
By monday we should see the HPB and Adam's 8474 builds both tuned at 30psi ish range.
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09-06-19, 06:12 PM
#32
Braaaap Tshhhh!
My tyres are 5 years old - Michelin Super Sports. Whacking some cup 2's on when we're done. We'll look at just putting some other wheels on from another car to see if we can alleviate it.
09-09-19, 04:19 AM
#33
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I owe you an apology, Adam. This will do well and we'll have the results in time. Best of luck.
09-09-19, 05:12 AM
#34
Braaaap Tshhhh!
09-09-19, 08:27 AM
#35
All bullshit aside its nice to see these comparisons and I'm glad more FD owners are going the EFR route.
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09-09-19, 04:21 PM
#36
I don't know anyone involved and in my opinion the guy is asking very valid questions. These threads are generally designed to build hype to help sell turbo kits. Id personally love to see a 1/8 or 1/4 mile trap speeds with back to back setups to go along with the dynos. For me, the dyno graph is about the torque curve. I hate playing the "add 10-15% for x dyno compared to x dyno" when guys can't justify the numbers. My old 8374 setup put up almost identical numbers on 20.5lbs with a stock port and pump gas and Elliot told me it was disappointing. LOL Hilarious to see the spin factor in effect here.
All bullshit aside its nice to see these comparisons and I'm glad more FD owners are going the EFR route.
All bullshit aside its nice to see these comparisons and I'm glad more FD owners are going the EFR route.
That is one thing I have plenty of. Most of the cars that come off my dyno actually race.
FD's making 500 rwhp on my dyno have trapped between 132-135mph . Other FD's that make closer to 570ish rwhp have trapped 138-140mph
09-09-19, 08:20 PM
#37
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I don't know anyone involved and in my opinion the guy is asking very valid questions. These threads are generally designed to build hype to help sell turbo kits. Id personally love to see a 1/8 or 1/4 mile trap speeds with back to back setups to go along with the dynos. For me, the dyno graph is about the torque curve. I hate playing the "add 10-15% for x dyno compared to x dyno" when guys can't justify the numbers. My old 8374 setup put up almost identical numbers on 20.5lbs with a stock port and pump gas and Elliot told me it was disappointing. LOL Hilarious to see the spin factor in effect here.
All bullshit aside its nice to see these comparisons and I'm glad more FD owners are going the EFR route.
All bullshit aside its nice to see these comparisons and I'm glad more FD owners are going the EFR route.
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Brettus (09-10-19)
09-09-19, 08:34 PM
#38
Full Member
By way of comparison, if someone puts a road race or drift platform on the drag strip, the 330' mph can be off as much as 10mph, which at the same power level, won't make it up on the back half. You gotta use the entire 1/4 mile, rolling out won't show the potential of the hp.
09-10-19, 09:21 AM
#39
On an FD that's close to factory weight, from what I've seen at the drag strip, the FD's that can 60', meaning cut 1.4's or better, there can be an additional 5-8mph vs someone not launching or not set up to launch the car. Skinnies up front are worth 2mph. Weight reduction even more mph. I've seen 450 rwhp cars pull mid 130's in 90 degree weather.
By way of comparison, if someone puts a road race or drift platform on the drag strip, the 330' mph can be off as much as 10mph, which at the same power level, won't make it up on the back half. You gotta use the entire 1/4 mile, rolling out won't show the potential of the hp.
By way of comparison, if someone puts a road race or drift platform on the drag strip, the 330' mph can be off as much as 10mph, which at the same power level, won't make it up on the back half. You gotta use the entire 1/4 mile, rolling out won't show the potential of the hp.
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KNONFS (09-10-19)
09-10-19, 02:33 PM
#40
Full Member
A 2.2 and a 1.7 will be quite different.
When you look at a time slip or a datalog, you can see the difference and adjust, we always go to a track that has the 330' mph to base our set ups on and for a fact, there can be a huge mph difference based on how well you dial in the short times.
Trap speeds measuring horsepower are a pretty thin method of comparison unless it's done on one car, one track, same day, same DA, and that's not gonna happen.
When you look at a time slip or a datalog, you can see the difference and adjust, we always go to a track that has the 330' mph to base our set ups on and for a fact, there can be a huge mph difference based on how well you dial in the short times.
Trap speeds measuring horsepower are a pretty thin method of comparison unless it's done on one car, one track, same day, same DA, and that's not gonna happen.
09-10-19, 05:08 PM
#41
I agree with DJ seven, no matter how good or bad I launch my car (assuming that I grab traction soon after the launch) MPH doesn't seem to be more than a few MPH different. Hell, even the roll race guys trap about the same as they do starting from 0 mph... It makes sense if you think about it, it may only take 100 feet to hit 40 mph, which just shortens the 1/4 mile by 100 feet.... How much mph can you possibly gain the last 100 feet when you are moving at 120mph+....
09-10-19, 06:27 PM
#42
Full Member
I agree with DJ seven, no matter how good or bad I launch my car (assuming that I grab traction soon after the launch) MPH doesn't seem to be more than a few MPH different. Hell, even the roll race guys trap about the same as they do starting from 0 mph... It makes sense if you think about it, it may only take 100 feet to hit 40 mph, which just shortens the 1/4 mile by 100 feet.... How much mph can you possibly gain the last 100 feet when you are moving at 120mph+....
Same length on swingarm.
60' 1.62
1/8 6.03
Mph 119
Re gearing, no other changes
60' 1.42
1/8 5.68
Mph 125
The 1/4 mile will reflect the same gain in mph.
We changed gearing for roll on street racing alot, so this isn't some fluke.
You put a turbo on a 2 step and leave on the correct boost, WOT sooner equates to more mph and quicker ET's.
5 mph more on a car set up the same and leaving the same will equate to 75hp, we know that. But we also know that there have been a few guys on here run nearly 130mph (128 to be exact) on just 400rwhp (stock twins). It's set up that pulls better ET and mph.
Come race your 500hp dyno gueen against a car with 100hp less but set up right, you WILL get your *** drug ET and MPH.
09-11-19, 11:10 AM
#43
I have actual data on both my cars and my ZX-14's that proves how much mph goes up (let's use 1/8th mile) for example. On my 14, we changed gears from what we run at TX2k to +6 on the rear sprocket.
Same length on swingarm.
60' 1.62
1/8 6.03
Mph 119
Re gearing, no other changes
60' 1.42
1/8 5.68
Mph 125
The 1/4 mile will reflect the same gain in mph.
We changed gearing for roll on street racing alot, so this isn't some fluke.
You put a turbo on a 2 step and leave on the correct boost, WOT sooner equates to more mph and quicker ET's.
5 mph more on a car set up the same and leaving the same will equate to 75hp, we know that. But we also know that there have been a few guys on here run nearly 130mph (128 to be exact) on just 400rwhp (stock twins). It's set up that pulls better ET and mph.
Come race your 500hp dyno gueen against a car with 100hp less but set up right, you WILL get your *** drug ET and MPH.
Same length on swingarm.
60' 1.62
1/8 6.03
Mph 119
Re gearing, no other changes
60' 1.42
1/8 5.68
Mph 125
The 1/4 mile will reflect the same gain in mph.
We changed gearing for roll on street racing alot, so this isn't some fluke.
You put a turbo on a 2 step and leave on the correct boost, WOT sooner equates to more mph and quicker ET's.
5 mph more on a car set up the same and leaving the same will equate to 75hp, we know that. But we also know that there have been a few guys on here run nearly 130mph (128 to be exact) on just 400rwhp (stock twins). It's set up that pulls better ET and mph.
Come race your 500hp dyno gueen against a car with 100hp less but set up right, you WILL get your *** drug ET and MPH.
If you want to argue drag racing I think it'd be best if you did it somewhere else. Anecdotal evidence is just that, and I'd hope that we can keep this as empirical as we can by plots that are as back to back as possible.
I have dynos, they're not hard to get real data from (as long as the people presenting it are honest :P) so lets hope we can put this one to bed post haste.
Last edited by dguy; 09-11-19 at 11:12 AM.
09-11-19, 03:24 PM
#44
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
^That's why I love you. Hahaha
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Molotovman (09-12-19)
09-12-19, 01:26 PM
#48
Full Member
If you want to argue drag racing I think it'd be best if you did it somewhere else. Anecdotal evidence is just that, and I'd hope that we can keep this as empirical as we can by plots that are as back to back as possible.
I have dynos, they're not hard to get real data from (as long as the people presenting it are honest :P) so lets hope we can put this one to bed post haste.
I have dynos, they're not hard to get real data from (as long as the people presenting it are honest :P) so lets hope we can put this one to bed post haste.
That being said , the Bathurst SP 650 (650hp twins) absolutely needs more proof then that Dyno supplied judging by the torque reading or lack of.
Still waiting on the 8474 high boost results to see if it actually beats the 8374 number turblown posted of 573hp. If it doesn't and doesn't beat it by 100hp that's sure to raise a few questions.
Last edited by zx1441; 09-12-19 at 01:32 PM.
09-12-19, 03:54 PM
#49
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
No, I think I'll keep it right here buddy. I'm making the point that you can't judge weather there are inflated dyno numbers soley by the trap speed because of the difference in a car set up to actually run the 1/4 mile vs one that is not.
That being said , the Bathurst SP 650 (650hp twins) absolutely needs more proof then that Dyno supplied judging by the torque reading or lack of.
Still waiting on the 8474 high boost results to see if it actually beats the 8374 number turblown posted of 573hp. If it doesn't and doesn't beat it by 100hp that's sure to raise a few questions.
That being said , the Bathurst SP 650 (650hp twins) absolutely needs more proof then that Dyno supplied judging by the torque reading or lack of.
Still waiting on the 8474 high boost results to see if it actually beats the 8374 number turblown posted of 573hp. If it doesn't and doesn't beat it by 100hp that's sure to raise a few questions.
09-12-19, 04:12 PM
#50
Rotary Freak
Are we really saying that all dynos are the same? Engine dyno, I'd say more likely. Seen enough change just with wheel/tyre combos that we keep dyno wheels to limit that variation. That's why in the antipodes, there's usually derisory remarks about American power figures - at best you've got a tuning tool rather than an "empirical" device.
Funnily enough the twins have been posted elsewhere, if I was either of the two involved here, I'd say go root your boot rather than provide any info though.
Funnily enough the twins have been posted elsewhere, if I was either of the two involved here, I'd say go root your boot rather than provide any info though.