BorgWarner EFR 8374 IWG Dyno Results
 

Boost Response and Power Output from our 8374 BorgWarner EFR( T4 .92 IWG) FD3S Turbo System. Adaptronic E440D Universal, stock port engine, E85, IGN-1A coils, Vmount, 4" ambient air intake, 3.5" full exhaust, Xcessive Manufacturing LIM, Injector Dynamics ID2000s x 4. Ran out of fuel pump on the top end.

BorgWarner EFR IWG FD3S Turbo System

nice job Elliot... i am impressed w 420 hp at 5500. SAE or STD? either way it should be a midrange rocket. what's w the fuel pump? what pump, hard wired?

i recommend a Walbro 9000267.

howard

Its a Fuelab 1500hp pump 1/2 jumper-ed. I was only getting 11.5V reading on the ECU so I think I need a new battery/alternator. Pump gets power right off the battery with a Relay activated by the ECU

Looks great! Look at how early that power is coming on!

It still makes peak power around 6500rpm, similar to a stock engine. That's pretty good when you're going for a high revving setup in our modern world of turbo engines that fall on their face at 5000rpm. I've come to appreciate stock ports more and more over time.

You are using a PWM output from the Adaptronic to control boost with the 3 port solenoid that comes with the turbo? I'm familiar with the software. Can you post a screenshot of your boost control settings? I'm curious what gains you were using on the PID controller and what kind of base duty cycles to expect with the 3 port solenoid + internal gate combination.

We are actually not using a electric boost controller.. we are using a manual controller... I brought he car to elliot on monday with no turbo kit and we tuned on thursday... only worked on the car 2 8 hour days... going to retune once I work out the electrical issues and wire up the boost controller.

the boost response and torque numbers are making me smile. Time to break out the credit card haha

These torque and response numbers are just ridiculous! Would love to see the torque numbers on this turbo at 15lbs and 20lbs on pump gas as that is what the majority of people would run.

What fuel is Jacob using on his fd? He just was the other one posted with same kit last week.

Torque is greatly increased with the stock port motor. Do you have a plot on a ported engine?

I believe Jacob used 93 octane.

Looks excellent. Does anyone know if there's much of a spool up diff between a 3.5" and 4" exhaust?

Thank you

I remember when these turbos first came out. They were backordered for so long and decided to cancel my order and switch over to precision 6766. The itch is coming back and I'm really curious as to how the 9180 performs.

airflow makes power and it may be this dyno sheet that most clearly proves the point. i am always first and foremost a hp under the curve (HPUC) fan.

HPUC is what wins races and also contributes to a more pleasurable overall driving experience.

i have an Excel spreadsheet w 69 dynosheets all corrected to SAE with seven power inputs.... from 5000 to 7500. largest total wins.

when you shift to the next gear it is important to have hp at 5500!

maybe i will repeat that.

when you shift to the next gear it is important to have power at 5500.

next time you look at a dyno sheet, i suggest you consider more than the top tick number.

one of the ways i evaluate HUPC is at what RPM does the motor make 200 hp.

generally i find 200 at between 3900 and 4400.

the 8374 made it at a tick below 3200! for a single turbo that is in another zipcode. of course if you look at the boost curve it is no mystery... at 3200 it is almost at 25 psi!

i don't know what effect stock ports have but they are probably more supportive of early power/spool. as may be the 3.5 exhaust. i do suspect the turbo is the key to the early airflow.

of course in a racing situation you would almost never see 3000 rpm as, even with the crappy wide spaced gearing and shifting around 7800 you see something in the 5000 area. i do figure that the dynamics that create the early airflow would still be working at higher rpm so the turbo appears to have an edge, though decreasing w rpm, everywhere.

not too surprising given the turbine weight among other things.

here's the 8374 part of my thread in this section re the EFR line:

BW EFR 8374

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3010/bwefr8374.jpg

BW EFR 8374 compressor area................ 6.626
the compressor is just a bit smaller than the Garrett TO4Z, GT500, PT67 which all measure right around 7 square inches.

58 pounds of air at 14.7 psi boost good for 437 hp
66 pounds at 20 psi 497 hp
75 pounds at 35 psi 565

all of the above are plotted at 65% efficiency so there is a bit more (significantly more) power than i calculate as well as more pounds output if you want to extend to 60%

the 8374 hotside is a large efficient 6.23 square inches of a Titanium composite.

TO4Z, PT67, GT500, 5.171 or 5.894 w "P" trim option
BW S300 63 6.31


like the 7670, the 8374 is available in a T4 .92 or 1.05 twin scroll configuration

clearly the 8374 is the mid-range (500-550) power generator in the line so it relates to the S300 63 (177283) and 66 in the non EFR in the BW lineup....

all hp numbers assume the turbo can be driven to the point on the compressor map which may not be the case. they also assume best tuning configuration. the numbers are primarily for comparison.

surge line is also a consideration. ideally you want it as far to the left (a lower number) as possible. surge point moves depending on boost, i picked 2.2 pressure ratios which is 17.64 psi boost

7670...................16 pounds
GT3582r........................24 pounds

8374...................22.5 pounds
TO4Z.............................24
BW S30063...................27.5
BW S366.......................23

9180.....................22 pounds
GT4094r..........................25
GT4294r..........................24
GT4202r..........................31
BW S475.........................32



looking good BW especially for the rotary!

howard

That powerband is amazing. Probably the most impressive 13B dyno I've seen so far. I have this big list of dyno graphs that I superimpose to get a good comparison. Of course there is a lot of room for error, but it puts things into the ballpark when all the graphs are using the same units.

Check out some of the best ones (only torque is graphed):
http://www.gimbalgame.com/misc/rx7_dynos.jpg

Notable: The brown line is HppRX7's crazy SSM autocross car ( https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...build-1013942/ ), with a rather small turbo for quick spooling. Fantastic low end, but the EFR is still ahead.

The 8374 seems like a really great match for the 13B so far. Looks like there's breathing room in the middle to turn up the boost, too.

here are my dyno graphs with the same turbo and manifold as Elliot posted above (mine is at 12psi with medium street port engine and rich tuning):

the slight dip in torque is from tuning.

the torque curve is VERY broad with this turbo setup. i got the turbo and manifold via Turbosource/Turblown, and i highly recommend their kit.

https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...91571241_n.jpg


scales changed to look a little more normal:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...50843906_n.jpg

I'll be getting one once I have saved enough quarters!

Jacob, I recall you had your dp fabbed locally, is there a reason you didn't use turblowns dp? Im assuming it wasn't available yet...

TRD, that's correct. i was also helping elliot, doing some testing to make sure the IWG was capable of handling low boost on a ported REW while they were finishing up the jigs for selling the turbo kit as a whole.

also, yes, i have a very good fab guy around here (an old friend of mine) Coffey Fabrication and Race Prep, so he made the downpipe for me, and he let me make my own hard lines and do other work at his shop to get the turbo setup complete and ready for the dyno.

you're better off with your precision probably, there's a video on youtube comparing the the 62mm BB preicsion vs the 62mm borg warner EFR, the precision made better overall power and only spooled 700 rpms slower.

Im guessing you are talking about the Supra comparison from a couple years back? Though that was the case with the 2JZ it hasnt been the case at all with the rotary in the few dynos we have seen. There are several dynos out there of guys running 62mm Precision billet setups and the spool and torque is no where close to that of the EFR. Jacob Cartmill's build thread is direct proof, he went from the 62/62 Precision to the 62mm EFR and testing them on the same engine at same boost levels. Power was similar but response/torque down low was night and day different in favor of the EFR.

that may be true in the moderate boost levels, but what about in the higher boost levels ( 30+ psi)?

Not sure how many rotary guys will be running a 62mm at 30+ psi. This application will be for autox, street and track guys for the most part. Drag guys dont care a whole lot about torque at 3k rpms.

Plus, Jacobs car is smashing on the precision torque wise at only 12 psi. Not to mention his previous setup was built for spool in mind I believe, I say this because he was using a 6262 not the more common 6266 and he was using the .84 turbine housing to help aid in the spool department.

I have no plans to boost to 30psi right now and the EFR is still the clear choice IMO of course.

We hoped on another dyno again yesterday with Shawn's car. Voltage was mainly fixed, but the fuel pump still ran dry past 5500rpms( down to 40psi , with a base fuel pressure of 50psi and 25 to 27psi).

With the voltage from moved from 11.5 to 12.7 to 13.1 volts( still not not perfect, but better) it made 516rwhp and 426rwtq by 5500rpms @ 25psi. The fuel pump's second stage is now going to be turned on and a bigger alternator put on. I have a feeling its going to be near 600rwhp all said and done. I intend to turn up the boost even more too.

I finally got to ride in the car, and this is by far the best 2 rotor turbo system I have ever experienced. The boost response and dyno charts don't lie, this car is an absolute animal, and feels like a highly modified stock twin R35 GTR.

Where did the power increase come from? Having more fuel pump won't give you more power?

2 more pounds of boost. I think it was a typo when he said 25 lbs. The graph shows 27lbs plus also I imagine they had better spark this time with the higher voltage.

Tuned a 13B the other day with a 6266 Ball bearing.
It was slower to spool then the EFR9180 i just finished tuning.
Anyone comparing the Precision to any of turbos in the EFR series is kidding themselves.
EFR has crazy spool properties neither Precision or Garrett have.

Can anyone here build 30psi at 5000rpm in 1st gear with any of there GT42 or 6766 Precision's on 93 octane? or even e85 for that matter.
I doubt it.

:icon_tup:

Common Elliot, finish the kit for the FC and ship it out :D, we anxiously waiting to start on the car!

I am looking forward to it!! Here is an old photo I sent Yves.. Its actually been 98 Percent complete for a long time. I need to hire more people around here...

All said and done how much hp did you guys get out this build?

Thanks

515rwhp was the max recorded. We have a ported motor going in now, and we will be testing all 3 turbochargers back to back( 7670/8374/9180 IWG). I have all the turbochargers here ready to go.

@515rwhp it also makes 450rwtq( similar to what cars making past 600rwhp make). Also since it comes on so early, it is much faster than what your standard 515rwhp feels like. Just watch the videos...

on the above setup what power/ torque/ response can be expected on 99 octane shell vpower fuel at 1bar /15psi? The reason for asking is im looking to buy this turbo ideally from yourselves but wont be running e85 or 26psi boost lol. :icon_tup:

One owner made 338rwhp on a dynodynamics( around 380rwhp dynojet) on pump gas and 12 psi. Another made 400rwhp at 10psi with a raceport. We have a lot of these kits out there so more results should be popping up.

On stock ports which turbo would be more responsive at 1bar/15psi boost? 7670 or 8374?

The 7670 will be faster.

Opinions on the 0.92 IWG housing again for a stock port oem engine?:)

The videos and high boost dyno sheets are all on stock ports.

the above dyno suggests the 8374 can make 15psi at 2800 rpm.....will it still spool that quickly on pump gas but the boost remaining at 15psi?

Also whats the highest boost you can run safely/ reliably on a bone stock motor with 99 octane pump gas with the 7670/8374?

One should still see 15 psi by 3000 even on pump gas. That car in the video makes 20psi by 3000 on e85. Keep in mind the porting combo, configuration etc has an impact on this. You cannot find a faster spooling turbo system on the planet, not a soul has been disappointed with one of our kits.

thanks. what's the safest boost/highest boost i can run on my stock ports engine? on pump gas...in the uk its 99 octane. mine's a weekend car so what would you recommend?

99/100 octane would be fine to 25psi range( just tune richer for higher boost).

Just to be clear, that is 99 octane, not RON? They're not the same.

We get 99 RON in the UK :icon_tup:

99 RON is equivalent to 93-94 AKI octane which is what we use in the States. LINK

Apologies as mentioned above its93-94 the same as you get in the states. Whats the max boost u would recommend on a stock port motor?

Not to interject what Turblown is telling you but you shouldn't calculate your max PSI based on your port size because frankly its somewhat irrelevant. The smaller your port, the more boost it will take to make the same power as a larger port but both ports will peak whenever your turbo runs out of air...this means you'll make the same peak power with both.

You should determine your max PSI, if running a REW, on your apex seals (always debatable) and the confidence of your tuner. Some people have run 30 psi on stock ports with AI and pump gas, and many have blown up at 15 psi. Find a good tuner and determine his confidence level.

for a purely street fd with stock port what is the better turbo overall 7670 or 8374 at 15psi on pump gas? also whats the highest boost that can be run on stockport engine with oem mazda apex seals?

Your question was answered in the post above yours.......

P.S no one will tell you what turbo is better as at the end of the day its up to you.

at sea level the EFR8374 turbo is tough to beat. I like the IWG version.

I would run this, even at altitude I like the EFR8374. the 7670 is also a great option if you do more autox, tight circuit stuff. the efr8374 is like the michael jordan of basketball. He has a good vert, he can dribble, can shoot, has hands the size of a gigantic person, and knows the game. the efr7670 is more like a point guard who isn't as tall but can do almost all the same stuff (isiah thomas?).