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Originally Posted by KYPREO
It's different from what you see on the 7670 charts. The issue with the 7670 isn't the hot side. The dyno charts drop off at high rpm because the 7670 compressor runs out of flow on a 13B.
KNONFS
Quote:
I really need to completely figure out compressor maps! At plain view, its hard to understand how the BW 64cfm compressor (found on the efr 7670, S257 sxe) runs out of flow at high rpm, when the old school garrett 61cfm (60mm found on t04s, 60-1, etc) didnt.
The 60-1 ran out of flow just as the EFR 7670 does.
On my TII I went from 60-1 with P trim exhaust wheel and 60mm wastegate to same size compressor EFR 7670 that has smaller exhaust wheel and dual 44mm wastegaters.
The 60-1 (using smaller HiFi compressor cover) I ran for 14 years and dynoed many times did 340rwhp @ 10psi, 380rwhp @ 16psi and we had to struggle using fuel and retarded timing at high rpm to get it to spool to 18psi where it only made peak 385rwhp (though more under the curve).
Put my 7670 on the same engine/set-up and it would hold 21psi boost (running 26psi for power under the curve, would drop to 21psi) and made 420rwhp. That is 9% more flow. Which is about the same flow I was losing running the 60-1 in the smaller HiFi housing.
EFR 7670, T04 60-1, T04S, GT3576R, GTX3576R, GTX 3576R Gen II, etc are all 57mm x 76mm compressors and will flow roughly the same CFM with similar compressor covers.
The difference in the EFR 7670 is the light TiAl exhaust wheel gets the turbo to full flow earlier at which point HP stays about the same (flow peaked) so torque has to drop as rpms increase.
Here is Dynojet of the 60-1 definitely not running out of flow because it was at 10psi boost and would go on to make 45hp more at higher boost.
Here is EFR 7670 on same dyno completely running out of flow because it is running 26psi at 4,000rpm dying off to 21psi by 6,500rpm.
Notice how well the EFR 7670 holds horsepower to the 8,000rpm rev limiter despite being completely out of flow?
I think this preservation of top end power on my EFR is helped by the 1.05AR exhaust housing and dual 44mm wastegates which the IWG version won't have- but we are talking about compressor flow here.
Here is Dynojet of the 60-1 definitely not running out of flow because it was at 10psi boost and would go on to make 45hp more at higher boost.
Here is EFR 7670 on same dyno completely running out of flow because it is running 26psi at 4,000rpm dying off to 21psi by 6,500rpm.
Notice how well the EFR 7670 holds horsepower to the 8,000rpm rev limiter despite being completely out of flow?
I think this preservation of top end power on my EFR is helped by the 1.05AR exhaust housing and dual 44mm wastegates which the IWG version won't have- but we are talking about compressor flow here.
Man, I hate dyno charts without a rpm axis lol. It seems like in your setup, the 60-1 "gave up" at 130mph, where the 7670 didnt (despite both being out of flow), that's really cool.
Yeah, I posted those two dyno charts though because they just show the horsepower which is directly related to the compressor flow. Its same car, same dyno, same 4th gear, same tire size.
I feel like it is the torque on the dyno charts that is throwing you guys off.
Yes, torque will drop off faster in the high rpm on the EFR charts than a comparable size non-EFR turbo. This is because torque is starting off higher in the EFR dyno charts.
When my setup is up and running, I should be able to provide some more data. I've got the EFR7670 IWG version but it's running on straight LPG (propane) and will have mechanical pre-turbo water injection, running on a stock port 13B. The WI is primarily to assist with taking heat of combustion, as propane burns a bit hotter than gasoline. But I'm theorising that by effectively running the turbo at a lower pressure ratio, the WI may also help extend the compressor map. To what degree, we'll see.
Here’s mine, I’m happy with the power lever right now. Tuned by Abel Ibarra
New motor by djseven. Medium street port with cosmo upper, irons ported matched to upper.
iwg 8374 with medium canister
adaptronic boost control at 15psi. I actually couldn’t boost higher. The car drives really well, I can’t believe how smooth it is actually, and has plenty of power. I hope I can leave it alone.
Here’s mine, I’m happy with the power lever right now. Tuned by Abel Ibarra
New motor by djseven. Medium street port with cosmo upper, irons ported matched to upper.
iwg 8374 with medium canister
adaptronic boost control at 15psi. I actually couldn’t boost higher. The car drives really well, I can’t believe how smooth it is actually, and has plenty of power. I hope I can leave it alone.
Abel is the man, I just saw him this weekend for some stuff.
Swap out your gate for a Turbo Smart IWG75 Dual port and a 4 Port Mac. That's what I did. You can run a lower spring and achieve way more boost. I run 14 on gate and 23 on ethanol. You get better control with the dual port setup, it's pretty nice.
If you want a single port IWG75, I have one available that I used before going dual port. This one will work with the OEM EFR mac solenoid just fine. I have it with a 3, 5 and 11lb spring setup. So you can configure it to run any of those or a 14 or 16lb setup.
That’s what Abel recommended for me as well, the twin port with the Mac valve. I know my car has a lot of room for improvement, my intercooler wasn’t doing much for the intake temps unfortunately so that’s needed before I can up the boost more.
I too am having trouble boosting higher. I have to dual port turbosmart actuator and the turbosmart e-boost street controller with its 3 port solenoid. Ive set it up utilizing the dual port as illustrated by the turbosmart diagram and I just cant raise boost above spring pressure.
Im going to try setting my controller as if im running a single port just like the attached diagram to see if that works. This is what turbosmart USA recommended.
I too am having trouble boosting higher. I have to dual port turbosmart actuator and the turbosmart e-boost street controller with its 3 port solenoid. Ive set it up utilizing the dual port as illustrated by the turbosmart diagram and I just cant raise boost above spring pressure.
Im going to try setting my controller as if im running a single port just like the attached diagram to see if that works. This is what turbosmart USA recommended.
I would highly suggest running 2x 3 Port MACs or a single 4 Port MAC (less flow and more fluctuation) given your setup. Depends on your ECU.
A few of us have covered the reasoning behind this throughout the forum.
I too am having trouble boosting higher. I have to dual port turbosmart actuator and the turbosmart e-boost street controller with its 3 port solenoid. Ive set it up utilizing the dual port as illustrated by the turbosmart diagram and I just cant raise boost above spring pressure.
Im going to try setting my controller as if im running a single port just like the attached diagram to see if that works. This is what turbosmart USA recommended.
Sounds like something is wrong to me with your current boost controller.
I have a PFC w/ a simplified harness for single turbo. I dont know how I could wire in a MAC solenoid.
I suggested to turbosmart that my controller may be acting up however they told me to try the above solution first. Im a bit disappointed, what the point of running a 2 port then?
I had the same issue with my TS actuator on my 9180. When I took it apart to put a stiffer spring in, it had a ton of brass filings inside the body. The bushing in the bottom of the gate had worn and was PISSING air around the rod. Their design sucks -there is no seal between the shaft and bushing. I'm not even sure it was oil impregnated bronze like a typical dry bearing. Either way, I went back and forth with TS until they agreed to take a look at it. I had to pay shipping to get it repaired too. A friend with an 8374 IWG on a BMW had a similar experience also. Last TS product I ever buy.
I think this is the perfect thread to ask this question. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my S8 FD, and while I'm at it, I bought a Turblown IWG EFR manifold. My goals right now are to keep the ports stock, but rebuild the engine properly, and I'm aiming for roughly 300 - 350 WHP this year. However, I would like to be able to go to 450 WHP on pump gas (98 octane in the EU) supported by AI. Would the EFR 8374 with internal wastegate work well for this? After seeing the dyno charts, I'm quite impressed with the quick spool of the 8374, and I assume it flows more on the turbine side? Because that would be quite beneficial IMO, any input is greatly appreciated.
Where did the power increase come from? Having more fuel pump won't give you more power?
Lol, I find the answer pretty straight forward. When pushing a turbo and climbing up in psi you will notice that injector duty will rise and eventually max out. So if you have a fuel pump that does not have adequate voltage supply you will max injectors sooner, so one the voltage issue is addressed then your fuel pump will be working more as advertised, hence providing more fuel over previous. Any tuner should no this type of stuff
How much cooling should one expect to have to reach 400+ RWHP? Is it achievable on SMIC or do i need a V-Mount?
Also, have anyone tested the short cast manifold with the AutoExe intake?
How much cooling should one expect to have to reach 400+ RWHP? Is it achievable on SMIC or do i need a V-Mount?
Also, have anyone tested the short cast manifold with the AutoExe intake?
You can easily reach 400rwhp on a stock location intercooler, I would just not use a small one( like BLITZ for example).
If you can unbolt the inlet section( where the hoses) attache to the duct work, and make your own inlet portion that you should be able to use that intake tract. I cannot recall exactly as its a rare item stateside. We have installed a few of the IWG kits with the PFS intake system which is similar.
You can easily reach 400rwhp on a stock location intercooler, I would just not use a small one( like BLITZ for example).
If i go that route i would get one custom made, possibly a U-type like knightsport or the PWR type the australian guy is selling But i want to keep the battery location (altho with a smaller battery) and possibly the Autoexe intake for a few extra inches on either side. AI would also be a must.
Would a 8374 offer me any advantages over say BNR in terms of how easy its to make power within the limitations of a "stock" looking engine bay, or are the limitations turbo-agnostic and only based on IAT, water injection and intercooler capabilites?
Originally Posted by Turblown
If you can unbolt the inlet section( where the hoses) attache to the duct work, and make your own inlet portion that you should be able to use that intake tract. I cannot recall exactly as its a rare item stateside. We have installed a few of the IWG kits with the PFS intake system which is similar.
I have seen the Autoexe in combination with single turbo. The only question here is how far back the turbo inlet is placed with the stubby manifold. Here is a picture of the combination. Can you gauge anything about fitment of the 8374 with this?
Mainline dyno is the #1 heartbreaker dyno which typically reads 15-18% lower than Dynapac/Dynojet. Not adjustable to fluff the numbers up like DynoDynamics dyno.
That 346rwhp Mainline is easy 400rwhp Dynojet which is great for what 14.5psi boost in my opinion.
Dyno Dynamics cannot be fluffed up. The old ones yes. New ones NO.
Mainline on the contrary can actually be fluffed, they allow you to choose different correction standards including one that will show similar numbers to dynojet.
10-18-18, 01:30 PM
