Boost threshold on TO4Z with 1.31 A/R
04-12-07, 12:25 PM
#26
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Thank you very much mate i think il go for the 1.9''
Originally Posted by RICE RACING
I use 1.9" to 2.0" id with much sucsess 
as with any turbo car a top level electronic boost controller with adjustable gain in gate cracking delay will yield more benifits than almost any fancy *mechanical/fabrication* thing you can do
experienced that graphicaly last night on the T51 tire destroyer!!!
as with any turbo car a top level electronic boost controller with adjustable gain in gate cracking delay will yield more benifits than almost any fancy *mechanical/fabrication* thing you can do
experienced that graphicaly last night on the T51 tire destroyer!!!
04-12-07, 03:27 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by hondahater
this is making me want to go from a .96 on my t70 hbp to a 1.15. I did want to see how fast that .96 would spool though, especially being that it's ceramic coated and covered.
But remember the a/r from turbo to turbo is not the same, as it is a ratio of the available space in relation to turbine housing to actual turbine so a 1.00 a/r on a TO4 is not the same as a 1.00 a/r on ‘’for example a GT4202,’’ as the gt has a 82mm turbine and the TO4Z has a 74mm turbine. Both the same A/R but one has a bigger wheel to turn.
04-12-07, 03:30 PM
#29
development
Originally Posted by hondahater
this is making me want to go from a .96 on my t70 hbp to a 1.15. I did want to see how fast that .96 would spool though, especially being that it's ceramic coated and covered.
if you keep reading this forum, you'll never finish your car 
04-12-07, 09:29 PM
#30
I know man I know. Thats my damn problem! I've been thinking this anyway though as slammedblk7 hit 480rwhp on 19psi of boost with the same motor and turbo but with a 1.15 hotside. But you are absolutely correct. I need to quit reading this forum, lol
04-12-07, 10:39 PM
#31
I have two questions for you RICE RACING:
1) With your water injection system you run straight water or some sort of alcohol ? Which kit do you use (if it's not a custom kit) ?
2) Should I destroy 255 kumho mx with a TO4R@15psi .96 turbine ? Because I'm not. At 20psi it's probably another beast.
Thanks!
Nice thread btw.
1) With your water injection system you run straight water or some sort of alcohol ? Which kit do you use (if it's not a custom kit) ?
2) Should I destroy 255 kumho mx with a TO4R@15psi .96 turbine ? Because I'm not. At 20psi it's probably another beast.
Thanks!
Nice thread btw.
04-13-07, 12:03 AM
#32
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by FD3S_wanted
I have two questions for you RICE RACING:
1) With your water injection system you run straight water or some sort of alcohol ? Which kit do you use (if it's not a custom kit) ?
2) Should I destroy 255 kumho mx with a TO4R@15psi .96 turbine ? Because I'm not. At 20psi it's probably another beast.
Thanks!
Nice thread btw.
1) With your water injection system you run straight water or some sort of alcohol ? Which kit do you use (if it's not a custom kit) ?
2) Should I destroy 255 kumho mx with a TO4R@15psi .96 turbine ? Because I'm not. At 20psi it's probably another beast.
Thanks!
Nice thread btw.
Alcohol is far inferior to water in every respect and hence its not used in any application I prescribe.
*If your serious you use 100% water.
*I make my own kits.
*20 psi is what you want minimum!, but that turbine housing is a massive hold back from personal experience, 21 to 25 psi on pump fuel and WI and it will be a complete animal, much much different car to what you have now. Unless you have been in a car set up this way you realy cant convey it in words.
04-13-07, 01:29 AM
#33
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holy hell pete i didn't think you'd ever come back! 
all i can say is anything under 20psi on a large turbo is wasting your time my very first pull on the dyno with my T70 was 28psi bwaahahahahahahhaa... i'll go in to the details in another thread but guys.. water injection is the win.
all i can say is anything under 20psi on a large turbo is wasting your time
my very first pull on the dyno with my T70 was 28psi bwaahahahahahahhaa... i'll go in to the details in another thread but guys.. water injection is the win.
04-13-07, 02:04 AM
#34
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by No_Rotor_RX7
holy hell pete i didn't think you'd ever come back!
all i can say is anything under 20psi on a large turbo is wasting your time my very first pull on the dyno with my T70 was 28psi bwaahahahahahahhaa... i'll go in to the details in another thread but guys.. water injection is the win.
all i can say is anything under 20psi on a large turbo is wasting your time
my very first pull on the dyno with my T70 was 28psi bwaahahahahahahhaa... i'll go in to the details in another thread but guys.. water injection is the win.cant wait to hear about it
*single turbo and RR WI a match made in heaven
04-13-07, 07:19 AM
#36
Originally Posted by hondahater
well lets do it here. No Rotor what is your water injection comprised of? Are you injecting pre turbo? How much water are you using (what size nozles)? What is your ignition setup? what spark plugs do you use? Thanks!
04-13-07, 08:32 AM
#37
lol, I hear ya, but really I wouldn't mind being the test bed for water injection if done in a safe way (ie, monitoring egts, iat's, knock etc...) on a dyno. I believe my ignition system will be fine for dumping huge amounts of water in with two fireball hi-6's and two lx-92 coils. If I could really correctly tune my car to 25psi on my setup while using a free addative to obtain those goals then why not try? Correct? Maybe when I go get my car tuned by brian we can do this. If anything we will have good data proving one or the other. I'd really like to try all my options before being stuck on any one substance.
04-13-07, 08:44 AM
#38
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I have nearly finished my AQmist install this weekend so will be tuning on 100 percent water on pump fuel with 15% of fuel taken out of my map. Currently running a 1.15 hotside on my TO4Z.
Will run 1.3BAR for the first time on my Half bridge motor see if I can beat my previous personal record of 450rwhp at the same boost level that was done on race gas and on a street port.
May go 1.3 hotside and upgrade the map sensor to run past 1.4BAR
Will run 1.3BAR for the first time on my Half bridge motor see if I can beat my previous personal record of 450rwhp at the same boost level that was done on race gas and on a street port.
May go 1.3 hotside and upgrade the map sensor to run past 1.4BAR
04-13-07, 09:15 AM
#39
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I have posted this heaps before but the ****'s deleted it or choose to ignore it.
You DONT need a fuel reduction policy when using Water injection (the only fair dinkum detonation supressor).
As an example i ran 10.85 to 11.25:1 AFR on Optimax pump gasoline at around 21.6psi a few nights ago with T51 that simply is uncontrolable on road, it will be on dyno in about 12 hours time and i will post up some results for you all.
On this set up it uses a rice racing jet at around 600cc/min flow rate to work on the heavily ported block and large turbocharger, and as stated the power is so excessive you cant accelerate properly when its all on tap up to 100mph.
The ignition system compises of shitty microwreak on trailings with crane set up (one box for each leading) & touch wood it as strong as an ox ! compared to last set up where it was pushed of the dyno after one power pull... there is no guess work needed nor trail and error, all you need to do is PM me.
The only tuning we needed to conduct on road was the triming of fuel setting to suit new fuel injector combination, nothing touched regarding WI rate as i pre set that & the philosophy is the same RE target mixture richness (though you can run it much leaner if need be) we actualy were running the engine soooo cold that the bottom plugs were not getting hot enough (B10EGV's). You dont have to do anything extravigant or odd except learn how to swing the steering wheel very quickly in the opposite direction to where you want to go :p
You DONT need a fuel reduction policy when using Water injection (the only fair dinkum detonation supressor).
As an example i ran 10.85 to 11.25:1 AFR on Optimax pump gasoline at around 21.6psi a few nights ago with T51 that simply is uncontrolable on road, it will be on dyno in about 12 hours time and i will post up some results for you all.
On this set up it uses a rice racing jet at around 600cc/min flow rate to work on the heavily ported block and large turbocharger, and as stated the power is so excessive you cant accelerate properly when its all on tap up to 100mph.
The ignition system compises of shitty microwreak on trailings with crane set up (one box for each leading) & touch wood it as strong as an ox ! compared to last set up where it was pushed of the dyno after one power pull... there is no guess work needed nor trail and error, all you need to do is PM me.
The only tuning we needed to conduct on road was the triming of fuel setting to suit new fuel injector combination, nothing touched regarding WI rate as i pre set that & the philosophy is the same RE target mixture richness (though you can run it much leaner if need be) we actualy were running the engine soooo cold that the bottom plugs were not getting hot enough (B10EGV's). You dont have to do anything extravigant or odd except learn how to swing the steering wheel very quickly in the opposite direction to where you want to go :p
Last edited by RICE RACING; 04-13-07 at 09:23 AM.
04-13-07, 01:06 PM
#40
Originally Posted by RICE RACING
for your application unless you get over your boost paranoia and the use of proper proven technologies then you should be looking at very small turbo's like the GT35R
Again well said. I don't see why everyone here runs such large compressors and such low boost..
04-13-07, 01:55 PM
#41
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at the time i was running cheap *** BR10ES plugs gapped to .025. i do not run trailing ignition and use a jacobs pro energy pak on the leading plugs firing thru the stock second gen coil. i use a Blow-thru Holley setup so my results could be different from others. Half bridge combined with a large street port, 9.4:1 rotors, RA apex seals, mazda springs, MP T70 Q-trim 1.15 housing (the guy i got it from told me a 1.0 but it's not), 3.5" downpipe to 3" corksport catback. You'll have to ask Pete about the flow rate of my WI nozzle, but it is pre-turbo and comes on at 7psi. NO pumps, no nothing to worry about. it's so damn simple.
i'm going back to the dyno because i blew out my intake gasket! hahaha but the couple decent pulls i got i'll just leave it at this...
over 450rwhp under 6000rpms at 22psi where i shut it down (i had to turn boost down from the near 30psi i was hitting when i got there, the boost comes on way too damn fast haahha) oh and i did have a gallon of race fuel in there mixed with a tank of 93 because at first i wasn't going to test the WI yet, but i went ahead with it. next dyno session (about 2 weeks) it will be all pump 93 octane in there.
should do pretty good by 8500 eh?
oh and i was able to hit 28psi by 5400rpms with a q-trim!
here's a pic before i added the WI nozzle. i have a 4" ss pipe that curves out and the nozzle is about 4" away from the turbo inlet. let me tell you people, i was sort of a disbeliever too, but i won't mock it until i try it and omfg i'm not going back IT IS SO ******* SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm going back to the dyno because i blew out my intake gasket! hahaha but the couple decent pulls i got i'll just leave it at this...
over 450rwhp under 6000rpms at 22psi where i shut it down (i had to turn boost down from the near 30psi i was hitting when i got there, the boost comes on way too damn fast haahha) oh and i did have a gallon of race fuel in there mixed with a tank of 93 because at first i wasn't going to test the WI yet, but i went ahead with it. next dyno session (about 2 weeks) it will be all pump 93 octane in there.
should do pretty good by 8500 eh?
oh and i was able to hit 28psi by 5400rpms with a q-trim!
here's a pic before i added the WI nozzle. i have a 4" ss pipe that curves out and the nozzle is about 4" away from the turbo inlet. let me tell you people, i was sort of a disbeliever too, but i won't mock it until i try it and omfg i'm not going back
IT IS SO ******* SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by No_Rotor_RX7; 04-13-07 at 02:01 PM.
04-13-07, 02:31 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by No_Rotor_RX7
at the time i was running cheap *** BR10ES plugs gapped to .025. i do not run trailing ignition and use a jacobs pro energy pak on the leading plugs firing thru the stock second gen coil. i use a Blow-thru Holley setup so my results could be different from others. Half bridge combined with a large street port, 9.4:1 rotors, RA apex seals, mazda springs, MP T70 Q-trim 1.15 housing (the guy i got it from told me a 1.0 but it's not), 3.5" downpipe to 3" corksport catback. You'll have to ask Pete about the flow rate of my WI nozzle, but it is pre-turbo and comes on at 7psi. NO pumps, no nothing to worry about. it's so damn simple.
i'm going back to the dyno because i blew out my intake gasket! hahaha but the couple decent pulls i got i'll just leave it at this...
over 450rwhp under 6000rpms at 22psi where i shut it down (i had to turn boost down from the near 30psi i was hitting when i got there, the boost comes on way too damn fast haahha) oh and i did have a gallon of race fuel in there mixed with a tank of 93 because at first i wasn't going to test the WI yet, but i went ahead with it. next dyno session (about 2 weeks) it will be all pump 93 octane in there.
should do pretty good by 8500 eh?
oh and i was able to hit 28psi by 5400rpms with a q-trim!
here's a pic before i added the WI nozzle. i have a 4" ss pipe that curves out and the nozzle is about 4" away from the turbo inlet. let me tell you people, i was sort of a disbeliever too, but i won't mock it until i try it and omfg i'm not going back IT IS SO ******* SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm going back to the dyno because i blew out my intake gasket! hahaha but the couple decent pulls i got i'll just leave it at this...
over 450rwhp under 6000rpms at 22psi where i shut it down (i had to turn boost down from the near 30psi i was hitting when i got there, the boost comes on way too damn fast haahha) oh and i did have a gallon of race fuel in there mixed with a tank of 93 because at first i wasn't going to test the WI yet, but i went ahead with it. next dyno session (about 2 weeks) it will be all pump 93 octane in there.
should do pretty good by 8500 eh?
oh and i was able to hit 28psi by 5400rpms with a q-trim!
here's a pic before i added the WI nozzle. i have a 4" ss pipe that curves out and the nozzle is about 4" away from the turbo inlet. let me tell you people, i was sort of a disbeliever too, but i won't mock it until i try it and omfg i'm not going back
IT IS SO ******* SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!! Excellent setup
but can you tell us way you don’t run trailing ignition? What are the advantages of this?
04-14-07, 12:04 AM
#43
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
^Dude that will be an animal
Just going off to dyno within hour with video camera in hand, will show you what to expect on that same boost and take some on road action footage too for all the non believers (if there are any pig headed ones left lol).
Similar set up to you but injected bridged cosmo donk with T51 (r trim turbine on very large exhaust housing), exact same WI atomizer as I supplied you
Just going off to dyno within hour with video camera in hand, will show you what to expect on that same boost and take some on road action footage too for all the non believers (if there are any pig headed ones left lol).
Similar set up to you but injected bridged cosmo donk with T51 (r trim turbine on very large exhaust housing), exact same WI atomizer as I supplied you
04-14-07, 02:20 AM
#44
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Water Injected Single Turbo !!!
just got back from dyno.
Summary
522rwhp on dyno dynamics machine on 15psi at power peak (dyno sheet to be posted tonight with special message on it !)
We could not maintain 21psi due to a fault with the boost controler when run on dynamometer it hit this boost (you will see it logged on dyno sheet) at about 5k rpm then rapidly fell down to 15psi region. Also due to the RICE RACING PHILOSOPHY of not tuning for hollywood bull **** dyno numbers air fuel ratio's were not modified to suit this environment so it was dead rich at around 10.10:1 v's on road 10.85 to 11.25:1.
All in all customer was very very happy (he will post here later on after he signes up). It would easliy do 620rwhp region at full boost (that being 25psi safe limit on pump gas and water injection only) and even on this sheet you can see that if it held the 21psi it would be well over 600rwhp on our dyno's ! this would be 650's region on your dynojets at a conservative estimate.
A great day for single turbo's & most importantly my friend Jake (who has had alot of heartache with his car leading up to this point), and water injection. I have some video of the car and the set up wich i will need to get some help with from a mate to upload andthat should not be too far away
Summary
522rwhp on dyno dynamics machine on 15psi at power peak (dyno sheet to be posted tonight with special message on it !)
We could not maintain 21psi due to a fault with the boost controler when run on dynamometer it hit this boost (you will see it logged on dyno sheet) at about 5k rpm then rapidly fell down to 15psi region. Also due to the RICE RACING PHILOSOPHY of not tuning for hollywood bull **** dyno numbers air fuel ratio's were not modified to suit this environment so it was dead rich at around 10.10:1 v's on road 10.85 to 11.25:1.
All in all customer was very very happy (he will post here later on after he signes up). It would easliy do 620rwhp region at full boost (that being 25psi safe limit on pump gas and water injection only) and even on this sheet you can see that if it held the 21psi it would be well over 600rwhp on our dyno's ! this would be 650's region on your dynojets at a conservative estimate.
A great day for single turbo's & most importantly my friend Jake (who has had alot of heartache with his car leading up to this point), and water injection. I have some video of the car and the set up wich i will need to get some help with from a mate to upload andthat should not be too far away
04-14-07, 02:55 AM
#45
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
close look at sheet dyno boost at peak power was 16.5 to 16.7psi 522.5rwhp dynodynamics
normaly would be 21psi so that is 590rwhp
she will be running 25psi so you can do the math on that and at normal AFR's you can add some again lol ABSOLUTLY STUPID POWER LEVELS, the car is an animal
522.5rwhp dynodynamicsnormaly would be 21psi so that is 590rwhp
she will be running 25psi so you can do the math on that and at normal AFR's you can add some again lol ABSOLUTLY STUPID POWER LEVELS, the car is an animal
04-14-07, 04:15 AM
#46
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NNOIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! 500+ @ 16psi... ****** awesome! so that guy is running the same exact pre-turbo setup as me? THAT IS SO GOOD TO HEAR!!!
what boost are you cuttin the water on at? i haven't figured out where i want to cut it on yet, so i've left it at 7psi.
Why don't I run trailing ignition?... honestly i don't have any particular reason except simplicity! i haven't had one misfire or break-up. even at high boost, no issues. before i get back to the dyno i will have another cdi box on the trailing tho so i will eventually run it as well but i will have a locked split of 14 degrees. just want to keep it safe.
again, thanks pete!
what boost are you cuttin the water on at? i haven't figured out where i want to cut it on yet, so i've left it at 7psi.
Why don't I run trailing ignition?... honestly i don't have any particular reason except simplicity! i haven't had one misfire or break-up. even at high boost, no issues. before i get back to the dyno i will have another cdi box on the trailing tho so i will eventually run it as well but i will have a locked split of 14 degrees. just want to keep it safe.
again, thanks pete!
04-14-07, 04:53 AM
#47
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by No_Rotor_RX7
NNOIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!!!!!!! 500+ @ 16psi... ****** awesome! so that guy is running the same exact pre-turbo setup as me? THAT IS SO GOOD TO HEAR!!!
what boost are you cuttin the water on at? i haven't figured out where i want to cut it on yet, so i've left it at 7psi.
Why don't I run trailing ignition?... honestly i don't have any particular reason except simplicity! i haven't had one misfire or break-up. even at high boost, no issues. before i get back to the dyno i will have another cdi box on the trailing tho so i will eventually run it as well but i will have a locked split of 14 degrees. just want to keep it safe.
again, thanks pete!
what boost are you cuttin the water on at? i haven't figured out where i want to cut it on yet, so i've left it at 7psi.
Why don't I run trailing ignition?... honestly i don't have any particular reason except simplicity! i haven't had one misfire or break-up. even at high boost, no issues. before i get back to the dyno i will have another cdi box on the trailing tho so i will eventually run it as well but i will have a locked split of 14 degrees. just want to keep it safe.
again, thanks pete!
for half bridge motors.Water gets activated at 7psi on the little RX2
Anytime, and let us know how you go with it !
p.s. 522 on a DD is alot higher if run on an inertia dyno's like you boys have. But this is a very large turbo even compared to yours.
04-14-07, 08:14 AM
#50
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Happy to share my knowledge with anyone who wants to believe
PM me and I will give you the key to the door for reliability and ultimate performance....for 100% true street driven cars. All you need is a tap (for water) and any general gas station
Its not to late to get on the bandwagon lol
PM me and I will give you the key to the door for reliability and ultimate performance....for 100% true street driven cars. All you need is a tap (for water) and any general gas station
Its not to late to get on the bandwagon lol
Last edited by RICE RACING; 04-14-07 at 08:34 AM.