Attn Vendors and Fabricators; 321 stainless tubing suppliers?
04-05-04, 05:38 PM
#1
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Attn Vendors and Fabricators; 321 stainless tubing suppliers?
Im trying to find the best source for 321 stainless tubing. Im trying to find material, about 16 guage, to make my manifold. and im having a hell of a time finding a retail supplier w/ online order capabilities and fair prices. and i have not found a place that sells 347 stainless GMAW wire, preferably in the .030" size.
04-05-04, 06:06 PM
#3
McMaster.com
They carry 321 stainless, seamless pipe. Works well for a manifold and is really thick (like .125). you can get bent "weld els" as well as straight tubing. Zepset used this for his manifold, and so did bad2ndgen, and now I'm in the middle of making one. Burns stainless sells quality stuff, but damn its expensive. If you insist on using a guaged tubing, you'd be better off just looking from a intustrial metal supply shop local to you.
~Mike.........
They carry 321 stainless, seamless pipe. Works well for a manifold and is really thick (like .125). you can get bent "weld els" as well as straight tubing. Zepset used this for his manifold, and so did bad2ndgen, and now I'm in the middle of making one. Burns stainless sells quality stuff, but damn its expensive. If you insist on using a guaged tubing, you'd be better off just looking from a intustrial metal supply shop local to you.
~Mike.........
Last edited by RacerXtreme7; 04-05-04 at 06:11 PM.
04-05-04, 11:48 PM
#6
There are no problems with mig welding s/s.
it's done all the time. Although i use a tri mix gas and not 100% argon. But then again i barely mig weld, i always tig everything.
You can even mig aluminum.
I've never seen 321 pipe? Are you sure your not talking about 304 or 316?
Also remember there's a big difference between pipe and tubing. Pipe is measured I.D. Tubing is Measured O.D.
For all out race applications or anyone who wants the best possible performing header/manifold, you'll want to use tubing.
If durabiliblity and cost are your primary concerns then use pipe.
it's done all the time. Although i use a tri mix gas and not 100% argon. But then again i barely mig weld, i always tig everything.
You can even mig aluminum.
I've never seen 321 pipe? Are you sure your not talking about 304 or 316?
Also remember there's a big difference between pipe and tubing. Pipe is measured I.D. Tubing is Measured O.D.
For all out race applications or anyone who wants the best possible performing header/manifold, you'll want to use tubing.
If durabiliblity and cost are your primary concerns then use pipe.
04-06-04, 05:12 PM
#7
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SS Pipe
The best prices I've seen for stainless pipe is from ATP Turbo. Here's the link:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=STL
I think it's 304 stainless but just give them a call and discuss it.
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=STL
I think it's 304 stainless but just give them a call and discuss it.
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04-06-04, 05:48 PM
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thanks for the help guys. i looked at burnsstainless already, and they are SUPER expensive. like $50 for one U-bend.
321 is about the best material you can get for an exhaust, except inconel, which is a proprietary name. the majority of the metal content is Nickle, and has a good portion of chromium in it too. its a little harder to weld and is a whole new world because the weld pool move slower and is sluggish compared to 300 series stainless and aluminum, and seems to form a skin over the molten pool... its not impossible, just different.
304 and 304L (low carbon) are good for normal exhaust but only has a max service temperature range of up to 800*C IIRC, so its not ideal for a turbo manifold at all
314 and 316 are a little bit more brittle than 304's, i think its because of the carbon content, but its great for fluids and caustic chemicals... but not ideal for high heat applications.
thats why i want 321 stainless. it has columbium in it to stabilize the grain structure at elevated temperatures. im pretty sure its the columbium that does it, unless it was the titanium..
either way, im having a hard time finding 347 wire on 2 Lb spools for my Mig.
347 is for joining 321 to 321
308 is for 321 to lower grade 300's
309 is fpr 321 to mild steel.
i can find lower grade filler rod/wire easily, but i havent found any spools of 347 yet.
as far as sheilding goes, i think there is a mix of like 98% Helium and 2% Argon... for Heli-Arc welding. problem is, you have to use alot of CFM because Helium floats away from the work zone... works great for overhead though. the other is a Tri-gas mix, i think its 90% helium, 7.5% argon, and 2.5% carbon dioxide. there is another mixture, which Spray arc welding calls for; ~2% Oxygen and 98% Argon... but that takes high current to propel the filler. id be afraid of burnthru.
its entirely possible to MIG/GMAW stainless. its simply automatically fed TIG... sort of. only difference is the lack of the tungsten electrode. anyways, if i cant get the right wire for my MIG, ill have to see about learning how to use my friends TIG at his machine shop.
to be more precise, i think id be going for some 16 Ga. Tubing, as opposed to pipe. as long as i properly support the turbo w/ stays and brackets and avoid putting stress on the manifold itself, itll be fine. High heat + Turbo weight = cracks. last thing i want is cracks in my nice new manifold... so supporting this heavy *** turbo is key.
thanks for the help guys
321 is about the best material you can get for an exhaust, except inconel, which is a proprietary name. the majority of the metal content is Nickle, and has a good portion of chromium in it too. its a little harder to weld and is a whole new world because the weld pool move slower and is sluggish compared to 300 series stainless and aluminum, and seems to form a skin over the molten pool... its not impossible, just different.
304 and 304L (low carbon) are good for normal exhaust but only has a max service temperature range of up to 800*C IIRC, so its not ideal for a turbo manifold at all
314 and 316 are a little bit more brittle than 304's, i think its because of the carbon content, but its great for fluids and caustic chemicals... but not ideal for high heat applications.
thats why i want 321 stainless. it has columbium in it to stabilize the grain structure at elevated temperatures. im pretty sure its the columbium that does it, unless it was the titanium..
either way, im having a hard time finding 347 wire on 2 Lb spools for my Mig.
347 is for joining 321 to 321
308 is for 321 to lower grade 300's
309 is fpr 321 to mild steel.
i can find lower grade filler rod/wire easily, but i havent found any spools of 347 yet.
as far as sheilding goes, i think there is a mix of like 98% Helium and 2% Argon... for Heli-Arc welding. problem is, you have to use alot of CFM because Helium floats away from the work zone... works great for overhead though. the other is a Tri-gas mix, i think its 90% helium, 7.5% argon, and 2.5% carbon dioxide. there is another mixture, which Spray arc welding calls for; ~2% Oxygen and 98% Argon... but that takes high current to propel the filler. id be afraid of burnthru.
its entirely possible to MIG/GMAW stainless. its simply automatically fed TIG... sort of. only difference is the lack of the tungsten electrode. anyways, if i cant get the right wire for my MIG, ill have to see about learning how to use my friends TIG at his machine shop.
to be more precise, i think id be going for some 16 Ga. Tubing, as opposed to pipe. as long as i properly support the turbo w/ stays and brackets and avoid putting stress on the manifold itself, itll be fine. High heat + Turbo weight = cracks. last thing i want is cracks in my nice new manifold... so supporting this heavy *** turbo is key.
thanks for the help guys
04-06-04, 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by RacerXtreme7
.....Zepset used this for his manifold.....
~Mike.........
.....Zepset used this for his manifold.....
~Mike.........
I used 304l pipe that Xtreme7Racer mentioned and it's been working awsome for the past 3500 miles.
04-06-04, 08:34 PM
#12
It's the titanium that gives the 321 the better heat resistance. And also the reason why you use 347 wire instead of 327.
If your serious about using 321 you should seriously consider tig welding it. I wouldn't mig it. You'd be wasting your time and money.
I would only tig it and make sure you purge it as well.
Any other way would be rigging it to me.
You should also use 16 gauge.
So get practicing on your friends tig and tig weld your header. Otherwise make it using heavy gauge mild steel.
Oh. and all turbo headers should always properly support the turbo. and remember to allow some flex when designing your supports. S/S will expand and grow and if you lock your turbo solid you will still crack your header. The idea is to take the weight of the turbo off the header.
I'm lucky and have a chassis shop next door so i steal their supplies when making turbo braces
If your serious about using 321 you should seriously consider tig welding it. I wouldn't mig it. You'd be wasting your time and money.
I would only tig it and make sure you purge it as well.
Any other way would be rigging it to me.
You should also use 16 gauge.
So get practicing on your friends tig and tig weld your header. Otherwise make it using heavy gauge mild steel.
Oh. and all turbo headers should always properly support the turbo. and remember to allow some flex when designing your supports. S/S will expand and grow and if you lock your turbo solid you will still crack your header. The idea is to take the weight of the turbo off the header.
I'm lucky and have a chassis shop next door so i steal their supplies when making turbo braces
04-07-04, 02:30 PM
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04-07-04, 08:35 PM
#14
addicted to lounge
This is a little off topic but I just feel like being a hater right now...about the super high prices at burns stainless: I bought a vband clamp and flange for 80 bucks there and when it got to me it had some sizing sticker on it. Well I peeled that sucker off only to reveal a www.raceshopsupply.com stamp. I checked there and the same stuff i got from burns was $50. Well i gues that is business but they won't have mine in the future.
04-09-04, 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by flubyux2
thanks for the help guys. i looked at burnsstainless already, and they are SUPER expensive. like $50 for one U-bend.
321 is about the best material you can get for an exhaust, except inconel, which is a proprietary name. the majority of the metal content is Nickle, and has a good portion of chromium in it too. its a little harder to weld and is a whole new world because the weld pool move slower and is sluggish compared to 300 series stainless and aluminum, and seems to form a skin over the molten pool... its not impossible, just different.
304 and 304L (low carbon) are good for normal exhaust but only has a max service temperature range of up to 800*C IIRC, so its not ideal for a turbo manifold at all
314 and 316 are a little bit more brittle than 304's, i think its because of the carbon content, but its great for fluids and caustic chemicals... but not ideal for high heat applications.
thats why i want 321 stainless. it has columbium in it to stabilize the grain structure at elevated temperatures. im pretty sure its the columbium that does it, unless it was the titanium..
either way, im having a hard time finding 347 wire on 2 Lb spools for my Mig.
347 is for joining 321 to 321
308 is for 321 to lower grade 300's
309 is fpr 321 to mild steel.
i can find lower grade filler rod/wire easily, but i havent found any spools of 347 yet.
as far as sheilding goes, i think there is a mix of like 98% Helium and 2% Argon... for Heli-Arc welding. problem is, you have to use alot of CFM because Helium floats away from the work zone... works great for overhead though. the other is a Tri-gas mix, i think its 90% helium, 7.5% argon, and 2.5% carbon dioxide. there is another mixture, which Spray arc welding calls for; ~2% Oxygen and 98% Argon... but that takes high current to propel the filler. id be afraid of burnthru.
its entirely possible to MIG/GMAW stainless. its simply automatically fed TIG... sort of. only difference is the lack of the tungsten electrode. anyways, if i cant get the right wire for my MIG, ill have to see about learning how to use my friends TIG at his machine shop.
to be more precise, i think id be going for some 16 Ga. Tubing, as opposed to pipe. as long as i properly support the turbo w/ stays and brackets and avoid putting stress on the manifold itself, itll be fine. High heat + Turbo weight = cracks. last thing i want is cracks in my nice new manifold... so supporting this heavy *** turbo is key.
thanks for the help guys
thanks for the help guys. i looked at burnsstainless already, and they are SUPER expensive. like $50 for one U-bend.
321 is about the best material you can get for an exhaust, except inconel, which is a proprietary name. the majority of the metal content is Nickle, and has a good portion of chromium in it too. its a little harder to weld and is a whole new world because the weld pool move slower and is sluggish compared to 300 series stainless and aluminum, and seems to form a skin over the molten pool... its not impossible, just different.
304 and 304L (low carbon) are good for normal exhaust but only has a max service temperature range of up to 800*C IIRC, so its not ideal for a turbo manifold at all
314 and 316 are a little bit more brittle than 304's, i think its because of the carbon content, but its great for fluids and caustic chemicals... but not ideal for high heat applications.
thats why i want 321 stainless. it has columbium in it to stabilize the grain structure at elevated temperatures. im pretty sure its the columbium that does it, unless it was the titanium..
either way, im having a hard time finding 347 wire on 2 Lb spools for my Mig.
347 is for joining 321 to 321
308 is for 321 to lower grade 300's
309 is fpr 321 to mild steel.
i can find lower grade filler rod/wire easily, but i havent found any spools of 347 yet.
as far as sheilding goes, i think there is a mix of like 98% Helium and 2% Argon... for Heli-Arc welding. problem is, you have to use alot of CFM because Helium floats away from the work zone... works great for overhead though. the other is a Tri-gas mix, i think its 90% helium, 7.5% argon, and 2.5% carbon dioxide. there is another mixture, which Spray arc welding calls for; ~2% Oxygen and 98% Argon... but that takes high current to propel the filler. id be afraid of burnthru.
its entirely possible to MIG/GMAW stainless. its simply automatically fed TIG... sort of. only difference is the lack of the tungsten electrode. anyways, if i cant get the right wire for my MIG, ill have to see about learning how to use my friends TIG at his machine shop.
to be more precise, i think id be going for some 16 Ga. Tubing, as opposed to pipe. as long as i properly support the turbo w/ stays and brackets and avoid putting stress on the manifold itself, itll be fine. High heat + Turbo weight = cracks. last thing i want is cracks in my nice new manifold... so supporting this heavy *** turbo is key.
thanks for the help guys
Also, it would definetly be better to TIG weld the manifold. Don't worry, TIG welding steels is a lot easier then aluminum (at least for me
). You'll get a stronger cleaner weld.
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