Other than being an actual victim, I am not a "victim," I do not have the "victim" mentality. I don't sit around and wonder why things HAPPEN to me. I have watched and listened to no less than 50 live interviews with prominent leaders in the muslim world and they ALL skirt the issue when it is brought up. When directly asked if they denounce or condemn (depends on interview) these attacks they wouldn't. They did however REPEATEDLY say "the muslim religion is one of peace" If you are saying that is condemning or denouncing these actions then you have a VERY lose interpretation of the meaning of these words. As I said if 98% (not 5%) of the people in a group are not completely opposed to an action then it is NOT RADICAL. Just so we are clear a statement denouncing the actions of a person or group would say something about how disgusted or appalled they are that people would take such actions in the name of "whatever." It would not be something that states only that "muslims are peaceful people."

I am not blind or stupid I see through the deception of MY government more clearly than most. I also understand how the media twists and manipulates things (though not nearly as efficiently or effectively as Aljazeerah) but in my searches I have found no evidence of muslims (as a majority) having ANY sympathy for America or well deserved HOSTILITY towards those who would tarnish their "good" name.

I have an open mind. Share with me these alleged condemnations and maybe you will sway my opinion on this matter. Muslims in the middle of the Midwest were celebrating OPENLY in schools on 9-11 and after. I know that over most of the world the 9-11 attacks were misrepresented as attacks on a "Jewish financial district" but that does not excuse the celebrating

If Americas politics are too pushy and too "evil" then why is it that when we move in and protect the innocent (or as you might say push our will on people) why do we, historically, give the land back. Ever since and including W.W.II we have done nothing to the countries we have "conquered" other than give them aid and help them rebuild to become a better place than before we were there. Japan, for example, we rebuilt that nation using mostly our own funds and gave them the means (meaning technology and financial backing) to be the great society that they are today.

Do you feel that Sadam should have been left in power? Do you honestly think that America has killed more INNOCENT people than Sadam? I am not saying that we should have entered under false pretenses but the man was a menace to society.

I notice you didn't comment on my feelings about how to deal with terrorism. Why is that?

 

You simply didn't search hard enough. But that's only 50% your fault, because we (as Muslims) also have the responsibility of making sure the message is disseminated widely enough. But again, it's hard when there's essentially a media blackout to anything not controversial lol. But I'll stop talking and allow the PROOF speak for itself. Here's a list of condemnations SO LONG, some of which are so drastic as to having purchased entire pages in newspapers. http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

I disagree w/ you. America pours money into countries which it sees to be beneficial to US foreign interest. If a country harbors feelings or attitutes that are NOT in line with US views, the US pretty much gives it the boot, or finds someone that does NOT represent the people, and supports him enough until he's forced into power. Hardly the democratic ideal we tout to the world, now is it?

Well said. But I just don't think it was the US' place to do anything, because every helping hand is followed through w/ a stab in the back when dealing w/ the US in the Middle East.

Because I didn't catch it. You mean killing the entire family etc? No offense, I think that's retarded. That makes you a terrorist as well. You can't stoop to those levels. Terrorism stems out of two things: misplaced/uncontrolled anger/desparation, and lack of knowledge. If you believe that terrorism and killing of civilians is anti-Islamic (as it really is), then you should fight by teaching and educating people this, and telling them of the GRAVE sin of killing an innocent (which Allah likens in the Qur'an to killing all of humanity). And for the anger/desparation, simply said, stop giving 'em reasons to hate you. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, whether or not it is acceptable or correct. If you bully the world and perpetuate hate due to your one-sided pursuits of selfish wants and desires at the expense of that given nation's wellbeing and native inhabitants, then I'm sorry, but you're asking for it...be it right or wrong. You're still asking for it. The responsibility is two-fold.

 

By the way if you truly feel that the American government is so awful (not that I agree with everything they do), then go back to whatever backaswards (wiping your *** with your hand) nation you hale from.

America uses smart weapons to limit civilian casualties we do everything possible to fight fair that is why we lose in places like Vietnam.

OK I do not feel that killing civilians is anti-islamic I feel that is what some want us to believe. Everything I have seen thus far is that the muslim religion acts much like a government speaking one thing and quietly suggesting another (more violent) path. The concept of dont stoop to their level is the ENTIRE problem we are talking about, as you said, uneducated angry people. Now in my words that translates to people that understand nothing other than violence. Have you tried to reason with a wolf? It is easier than reasoning with a terrorist.

If it makes me a terrorist to want to end terrorism by the most efficient means necessary then so be it. You have to admit that it would work. Even these ANIMALS that blow themselves up would not do it knowing that they would be killing there own family.

 

Go back to DC? Hell no man...Northern VA is much nicer

And FYI, I wouldn't be one to talk about hygeine. The US is probably the nastiest country I've seen to date when it comes to personal hygeine. Guys don't even bother cleaning jack (body part let alone their hands) after using the restroom. Simply nasty.

Of course we do. That's why we use cluster bombs, napalm, nerve gas, atomic bombs, nuclear weapons, etc, etc, You crack me up...

 

yes lets go back 30 years we havent used napalm, nerve gas, atomic bomb (50 years) NEVER USED A NUKE. You argue like a woman bringing up ancient history. You must get your news from aljazeerah if you think we use that crap IN CIVILIAN AREAS. I am not gonna say that we dont use clusters and napalm in close air support situations against hostiles but nerve gas? PLEASE!

Hygeine? Really why is it that people in these nations in the middle east eat only with the right hand? We have hygeine options in America not all people use these options but at least they are available. Aparently you have not been to Iraq, Mexico, Iran, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. I am sorry but not washing your hands after you **** is a far cry from wiping your *** with your hand and then not washing it.

Media blackout my *** I have SEEN your religious leaders in interviews refusing to denounce the actions of terrorist groups.

 

Oh I'm sorry...the 100,000+ innocent lives in Hiroshima were obviously all military targets right? And have you seen the cluster bombs being used IN VILLAGES in the Middle East? They make civilian casualties an absolutely CERTAINTY. You're seeing things the way you WANT to see them. Our track record speaks for itself. And just because you don't see coverage of us using such weapons doesn't mean it isn't happening. The media simply got smart ever since Viet Nam and realized they can't cover the things that the public won't want to see...

Absolutely. Eat with your right, clean yourself with your left. You don't mix the two.

Your point? Who cares what's available; it's the decisions people make BASED on what's available that makes a huge difference. If you have no other choice, it's understandable. But to have the choices there, ready and available, and not use it...that's the pinnacle of dirtiness.

Yes I've been to countries in the Middle East, and yes, there's a reason why there's either a jug near every toilet or a faucet, because after cleaning one's self (which is not even an option), you clean your hands. You do BOTH. What problem you have w/ that is beyond my understanding. I guess you're just REALLY far from understanding hygiene.

First, did you see the link? Did you see ANY coverage of ANY of those statements? Obviously not. There's your media blackout. Second, the media covers inflammatory ppl who are NOT religious leaders. They're political leaders of whatever rouge non-representative party they lead. You, being an outsider, have absolutely no knowledge on whether or not these individuals are actually religious leaders within the Muslim world, and if they're even in a position to be representative of Muslims. You just see someone they WANT you to see going off on a hate tirad, and say oh yea, that's how all Muslims think. I thought you were smarter than that... I could do the same about ANY group...

 

Like I said you argue like a woman Hiroshima was almost 60 years ago let it go they have.
This is why we are so hated people are living in the past women should have no rights and America dropped an atomic weapon or two! You realize of course that back in those days of primitive warfare more civilians died than enlisted people in EVERY country that saw battle on its own land, and the numbers were in the millions. MILLIONS! So 100,000 at one time with the threat of, we can get you wherever you hide was worth the 500,000 Japanese civilial lives that WOULD HAVE been lost when the land invasion began.

Again with the cluster bombs you are getting your news from aljazeerah aren't you? Were you in a "village" when it was cluster bombed? I refuse to believe such ridiculousness. We are under a magnifying glass, every move we make is instantly reported on around the world if this was a common practice we would know, I get and watch BBC. Just because we cluster bomb the **** out of a terrorist training camp and the media, and terrorists drag every woman and child corps in from a 100 mile radius and films it as a "village" does not make it true. These aleged radicals would bring in LIVING women and children and slaughter them to make us look like the bad guy. I thought YOU were smarter than that. I wont say that there has NEVER been bad intel but we didn't fire VX at our own citizens we didn't rush across the border of a lightly defended country to claim the land and resources as our own. Do we try to protect oil? Yes it is necessary, our economy, unfortunately, depends upon it.

Do you think that humiliating prisoners of war (that you are feeding 3 meals a day, much more food than what most of them would be getting if free) is horrible? I don't, we are not starving them or pulling their nails from their fingers with vice grips we are not beheading them or force feeding them pork. A little mind screw to try to get info is the best we can do to keep within their rights (which for the record, I don't feel they should have ANY rights at all but I feel that way about felons in America also)

Look we are both obviously well educated individuals who simply believe different media outlets. Neither of us has witnessed these events first hand so the best we can do is pick and choose what we believe. I agree with some of your points and you agree with some of mine but we both have our biases and that is unlikely to change.

Yes I spent three hours going over the link and searched on some of the items in there. Just because someone set up a site with a bunch of people saying that it was evil and not within the muslim beliefs doesn't mean that 98% of the muslims feel that way. I think that deep down inside you may even feel a little bit of what you spoke of earlier, about America getting a well deserved taste of what it has been spreading for decades. If you didn't then that thought would not have crossed your mind.

And about the media in America. PLEASE those ****** would sell tickets to their own mothers mastectomy so don't think for a second that they wouldn't jump on the chance to out every government mistake ever made. This isn't the Kennedy administration anymore the vultures prey on every tidbit. There is no such thing as keeping it quite because that is what's best for America.

About "cleaning oneself" if you call spritzing water onto feces and spreading it around a little "cleaning" then HELL YEAH clean up!! I agree that Americans have NO IDEA how to wash their hands properly and I am willing to bet $500 that you don't either. I have read the studies on how only 1 in 6 people washes after using the bathroom but that is no different from other countries. I owned a restaurant for 5 years and I had to retrain EVERYONE I EVER HIRED, how to wash properly but you know what? The way they did it before I taught them was still way better than wiping your *** with your bare hand, and then spritzing some water on it. If you think you know the proper procedure for washing your hands go ahead ant type it out I can almost guarantee you will be wrong.

 

You're right, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. But I'll remind you of one thing. There's a reason Al-Jazeera headquarters were bombed THREE TIMES in THREE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, using laser guided missles. It wasn't an accident by any stretch. America sees the world in one light, and won't accept any other light to shine. As Bush said, you're either with us or against us. And that's the attitude they practice. So much for freedom of speech and expression

 

Honestly, sarcasm does NOT tranlate at ALL online. I know this from personal experience . My fault for taking your comments too seriously, but nowadays you really don't know. I'll be careful not to be soo quick to judge.

 

Ramy, I thought you weren't gonna get involved with these "discussions" anymore? Well anyways I applaud you for trying. I'll refrain from commenting, it's just easier that way.

 

all right, well if it was run in my society Id kill you for being stupid. Do you see how well that government works? Its completley subjective to ones thought of whats "stupid" I hope you dont take offence but I am just pointing out the fallacy you've typed out.

 

YES of course we bombed that truth twisting propaganda machine. You cant honestly tell me that you think Aljazeerah reports news from an unbiased standpoint! If you think for one second that Aljazeera covers stories with less bias than say CNN, FOX, BBC or MSNBC then you are not nearly as intelligent as I have already given you credit for. With that said it is not, as you imply, a civilian target regaurdless of who owns/operates it, because when a media outlet twists the truth with the specific intent of empowering an insurgence it becomes a military target.

 

I am not stupid, and I do in fact take offense to being called stupid my theory would in fact work. The point of my theory is simply to show that terrorists are ignorant half wits and if there were consequences to their actions that hit close to home they wouldn't be doing it. The family units would become a bit closer and maybe more supportive of each other which would not allow the alleged radicals to brain wash them into killing innocent people for no reason. I feel that this exact plan would work every bit as well with gang violence (see how I did that, I showed that America has the same problem that manifests itself in a different way and as we all know this is only a small percentage of our population).

As for killing me, I don't know if you read all my posts but I offer you and any other local the opportunity to get together and have a meeting of the minds over a beer and possibly some naked women (just because we can! Praise be to AMERICA!)

So PM me if you want to get together for that beer.

Or, for the rest of you out there if you like my comments and just don't want to publicly admit it, you are welcome to PM me too.

PS when you call someone stupid you might want to spell corectly: Offense not offence and
completely not completly. No offense.

 

Riz, you're right...it's getting to the point where it's not worth my time...

 

 

At least answer the question. I will repeat it. Do you really believe that Aljazeerah tells the story with less bias than American media outlets?

 

Hell yeah I dont constantly watch my spelling, or that of others, but if your going to call someone stupid, you need to at least run a spell check.

 

So Newbie, it appears that you don't know how to wash your hands and you believe Aljazeerah to be a straight forward reliable news source. I have over estimated your intelligence

 

1) I don't waste my time in useless arguments. 10th ANNIVERSARY has already arrived at a conclusion prior to examining the evidence. And even after he examined undeniable evidence (which he claimed didn't exist), he started to make excuses in order to ignore it. I don't waste my time in useless arguments.

2) 10th ANNIVERSARY posts about spelling, but his posts were full of spelling mistakes of his own. How ironic.

3) As for how to wash my hands, you guys are in no place to even question my knowledge or ability, nor do you know about either. FYI, I TEACH patients how to maintain hygiene. In fact, my profession SETS the national policies & safety standards for cleanliness and hygiene. So know who you're talking to before you profess your ignorance publicly

4) Over or underestimate, nothing you can say can or will goad me into entering into an argument that is purely a waste of time. So say or think what you will. I, on the other hand, will leave you with my final thought in this thread...and I'll make sure it's one simple enough for your oh-so-high intellect to grasp

"Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter..." ~ Dr. Seuss

~Ramy

 

whoa