Rtek Android Please
08-30-11, 06:28 PM
#3
As soon as people buy $10k of Rteks needed to have it developed.
I've gotten quotes from mobile app contractors (android and iOS) and I've gotten quotes as low as $5k (from india) and and high as $15k (US).
I'm lucky if I make $10k in profit off Rteks in a year. I just can't justify the cost.
If there are any serious devs out there that are willing to put the time in, I can provide whatever you need. But I'm not going to give stuff out to anyone that asks just so they can tinker. Last two people I gave info (as well as hardware) out to, I never heard from again.
I've gotten quotes from mobile app contractors (android and iOS) and I've gotten quotes as low as $5k (from india) and and high as $15k (US).
I'm lucky if I make $10k in profit off Rteks in a year. I just can't justify the cost.
If there are any serious devs out there that are willing to put the time in, I can provide whatever you need. But I'm not going to give stuff out to anyone that asks just so they can tinker. Last two people I gave info (as well as hardware) out to, I never heard from again.
08-30-11, 07:02 PM
#4
That makes sense. It probably does not make any difference but, i know i would pay money to upgrade to an android app even without any hardware changes.
And im not talking just the sub $10 price point most apps cost. I would be worth upwards of $50 or even some higher to me...with all the problems ive had with the palms and serial cables....i love the system when it works but it has been a real pain for me with connection problems...
And im not talking just the sub $10 price point most apps cost. I would be worth upwards of $50 or even some higher to me...with all the problems ive had with the palms and serial cables....i love the system when it works but it has been a real pain for me with connection problems...
08-30-11, 07:59 PM
#5
I neither own nor like anything with the android platform. But I would immediately go out and buy one if there were a paid phone app version of RX7Logger. I think I'd pay as much as $125 or more because that's how much dyno funds it cost to recover from a recent Palm issue.
But then you'd have to consider the obsolescence of the serial interface as well. Is it feasible to devise a serial adapter and expect it to communicate with a droid, winmo, ifon, or j2me phone? And how often do you kids upgrade your phones these days? Every two years? Every time a cool one comes out? Doesn't sound like a long-lived platform to me. You'll end up with a dedicated RTek droid (two, if you prefer) plus another one to make phone calls and update your facebook.
The serial port continues to outlive its intended technological lifespan. The fact is it remains alive and well on the PC platform, albeit in the form of USB-to-serial adapters these days. Would it be more economical to develop for the PC? It doesn't have to be Windows-based. It could live on a bootable CD or USB stick, load Linux (or whatever), find a serial port, and bring up RX7Logger.
No intention to start yet another platform discussion --
In short, I'll support anything "modern-like" that talks to the RTek.
But then you'd have to consider the obsolescence of the serial interface as well. Is it feasible to devise a serial adapter and expect it to communicate with a droid, winmo, ifon, or j2me phone? And how often do you kids upgrade your phones these days? Every two years? Every time a cool one comes out? Doesn't sound like a long-lived platform to me. You'll end up with a dedicated RTek droid (two, if you prefer) plus another one to make phone calls and update your facebook.
The serial port continues to outlive its intended technological lifespan. The fact is it remains alive and well on the PC platform, albeit in the form of USB-to-serial adapters these days. Would it be more economical to develop for the PC? It doesn't have to be Windows-based. It could live on a bootable CD or USB stick, load Linux (or whatever), find a serial port, and bring up RX7Logger.
No intention to start yet another platform discussion --
In short, I'll support anything "modern-like" that talks to the RTek.
08-30-11, 08:14 PM
#6
The serial interface is definitely a concern. I mean both iOS and Android have been out for years and only recently did they get serial interfaces. The thing is there's nothing to replace it!
You can't use USB.. Even though that is SLOWLY changing with USB OnTheGo support which I think some android devices support. But i doubt iOS will support it any time soon.
Yes, there is bluetooth, but it has downsides...like halving your data rate. I'm not even sure iOS and/or Android officially support the Serial bluetooth profile. I know at one point neither did.
Ideally, you'd use wifi, and everything would be web based. I have working prototypes of streaming realtime ECU data to an iphone (well, any ) browser using AJAX. But there are issues with that as well...like dead battery really quick, Overheated iPhones (yes I overheated it) cost of hardware on the ECU side ($100+) as well as the fact that most handsets won't connect to ad-hoc networks.
Then there is the cost of the device. What if you don't have/don't want an android phone. Who's going to buy a $600 phone outside of a contract just to use it with the Rtek? At least with iOS, you have the iPod Touch. That was the nice thing about the web based stuff, you could use anything that had a browser.
There is a lot of directions you could go. I think the web based direction is the best in terms of future-proofing the product as well as compatibility with the most platforms. I mean I'd love to do it, but how much future does the Rtek have to justify the time and material cost of development?
You can't use USB.. Even though that is SLOWLY changing with USB OnTheGo support which I think some android devices support. But i doubt iOS will support it any time soon.
Yes, there is bluetooth, but it has downsides...like halving your data rate. I'm not even sure iOS and/or Android officially support the Serial bluetooth profile. I know at one point neither did.
Ideally, you'd use wifi, and everything would be web based. I have working prototypes of streaming realtime ECU data to an iphone (well, any ) browser using AJAX. But there are issues with that as well...like dead battery really quick, Overheated iPhones (yes I overheated it) cost of hardware on the ECU side ($100+) as well as the fact that most handsets won't connect to ad-hoc networks.
Then there is the cost of the device. What if you don't have/don't want an android phone. Who's going to buy a $600 phone outside of a contract just to use it with the Rtek? At least with iOS, you have the iPod Touch. That was the nice thing about the web based stuff, you could use anything that had a browser.
There is a lot of directions you could go. I think the web based direction is the best in terms of future-proofing the product as well as compatibility with the most platforms. I mean I'd love to do it, but how much future does the Rtek have to justify the time and material cost of development?
09-02-11, 09:21 AM
#7
What language is the current logger app in? Java or C++? Either of those could be run on an android. Not directly, but altered through the Android SDK or NDK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_OS...on_development
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...)#Applications
PalmOS is C/C++. Android apps are usually in Java, but can be "natively developed" in C/C++.
Android's phones have usb controllers (host) in them. They are not just a usb end device that requires a host (computer). A micro/mini usb adapter and serial-to-usb adapter combinations could be used with an android devices. The big thing would be to have the app created/ported.
No easy task to create or port an application from one platform to another. It's hard enough to create a complex app in a language you ALREADY know.
AndroidOS and iOS are very popular. C/C++ is a language that can be used across many platforms. There are Win, *nix, and Mac compilers. Guess what, Android is a flavor of *nix too!
In general, the cost of adding communications circuits are cheaper when using old school serial or usb connections. Wireless and bluetooth are more expensive. For development of a device or software, you also have to think of how you can accommodate the most people efficiently and cost effectively. A C/C++ app to work on windows/*nux and AndroidOS should cover a larger portion of the users. Creating an app that would work for iOS would be 'nice," but probably far away from cost effective.
For those of you that have a laptop, grab a "null modem cable" and a serial-to-usb adaptor and look into the PalmOS Emulator. It works, but it is not officially supported.
Humor:
I think there was some app on FileHippo.com that you could import a palmos app and export to ios or other platforms too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_OS...on_development
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...)#Applications
PalmOS is C/C++. Android apps are usually in Java, but can be "natively developed" in C/C++.
Android's phones have usb controllers (host) in them. They are not just a usb end device that requires a host (computer). A micro/mini usb adapter and serial-to-usb adapter combinations could be used with an android devices. The big thing would be to have the app created/ported.
No easy task to create or port an application from one platform to another. It's hard enough to create a complex app in a language you ALREADY know.
AndroidOS and iOS are very popular. C/C++ is a language that can be used across many platforms. There are Win, *nix, and Mac compilers. Guess what, Android is a flavor of *nix too!
In general, the cost of adding communications circuits are cheaper when using old school serial or usb connections. Wireless and bluetooth are more expensive. For development of a device or software, you also have to think of how you can accommodate the most people efficiently and cost effectively. A C/C++ app to work on windows/*nux and AndroidOS should cover a larger portion of the users. Creating an app that would work for iOS would be 'nice," but probably far away from cost effective.
For those of you that have a laptop, grab a "null modem cable" and a serial-to-usb adaptor and look into the PalmOS Emulator. It works, but it is not officially supported.
Humor:
I think there was some app on FileHippo.com that you could import a palmos app and export to ios or other platforms too!
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09-12-11, 10:25 PM
#9
I'll officially support this idea as well.
I can't find my palm atm and I'll be damned if I buy another antiquated piece of "technology". Yes, there is a boot leg workaround to use a pc, but I'm not interested in half-*** pseudo-solutions (truth be told I have an old laptop w/battery life about as good as a palm.
Lol) This is the same reason I don't mess around w/bit torrent and other such foolishness. Id rather pay a fair price and have something work than get it for "free" and waste so much time trouble shooting that it ends up costing more than the real thing.
I can't find my palm atm and I'll be damned if I buy another antiquated piece of "technology". Yes, there is a boot leg workaround to use a pc, but I'm not interested in half-*** pseudo-solutions (truth be told I have an old laptop w/battery life about as good as a palm.
Lol) This is the same reason I don't mess around w/bit torrent and other such foolishness. Id rather pay a fair price and have something work than get it for "free" and waste so much time trouble shooting that it ends up costing more than the real thing.
09-13-11, 01:01 AM
#10
Palm OS Emulator FTW
^I agree in spirit..... Although you can't beat torrents for watching auto racing. Even though I pay Comcast a boatload of money, their POS DVR with its tiny hard drive just doesn't cut it. They're also my ISP, so they provide the technology to bootleg programming I pay them to provide. Ironic. But I digress.....
There are legitimate reasons to use the Palm OS emulator other than getting a "free" PDA that can talk to the RTek. I have three RTek-compatible Palms, of which I keep two setup in a known good ready-to-go configuration. But I also have, and often use, the virtual Palm via the emulator. A number of steps are needed to configure it initially, but it was a relatively trouble-free process to get it to communicate with the RTek. Afterwards, even if something goes awry, I can always revert to a known good saved state. Synch is instantaneous, since the communication doesn't go across a real port. You can capture screen shots to save your maps in a visual form. etc.
With my three Palms, I messed around with IR ports, serial ports, USB, USB-to-serial adapters, at least half a dozen PCs, and four different Windows OS's. I even bought an old school Compaq so I could get an antiquated IR protocol to work (only supported by Win 9x apparently). And all that to get Palm Desktop to hotsync.....
Until I bought the RTek, I was hoping to forget my nightmares supporting hotsync and PDAs for sales guys and marketing folks during the dot-bomb days. I never thought I'd spend so much time providing PDA support for myself!
There are legitimate reasons to use the Palm OS emulator other than getting a "free" PDA that can talk to the RTek. I have three RTek-compatible Palms, of which I keep two setup in a known good ready-to-go configuration. But I also have, and often use, the virtual Palm via the emulator. A number of steps are needed to configure it initially, but it was a relatively trouble-free process to get it to communicate with the RTek. Afterwards, even if something goes awry, I can always revert to a known good saved state. Synch is instantaneous, since the communication doesn't go across a real port. You can capture screen shots to save your maps in a visual form. etc.
With my three Palms, I messed around with IR ports, serial ports, USB, USB-to-serial adapters, at least half a dozen PCs, and four different Windows OS's. I even bought an old school Compaq so I could get an antiquated IR protocol to work (only supported by Win 9x apparently). And all that to get Palm Desktop to hotsync.....
Until I bought the RTek, I was hoping to forget my nightmares supporting hotsync and PDAs for sales guys and marketing folks during the dot-bomb days. I never thought I'd spend so much time providing PDA support for myself!
09-28-11, 04:42 PM
#12
Found my palm...It was hiding inside a turbo blanket behind the seat
Raksj04 if you really preffer the computer screen check out the Palm emulator workaroudn thread. The cable you have on your rtek can only connect to a computer anyway, so it would be one less thing to buy.
Raksj04 if you really preffer the computer screen check out the Palm emulator workaroudn thread. The cable you have on your rtek can only connect to a computer anyway, so it would be one less thing to buy.
03-07-12, 01:39 PM
#16
Would those of us who currently have a stage 2 be able to get a retrofit to this if it were to happen? I have stage 2 for n/a and will be needing to soon send in a n370 I have laying around for stage 2 treatment, but would gladly wait some amount of time if this is something truly coming to fruition.
03-07-12, 01:46 PM
#17
All I'm saying is we are looking into it. We have no plans as of yet to actually do anything.
The problem is twofold. The daughterboards we use use parts that are rather dated and they are getting scarce and more expensive. The price of a daughterboard has almost tripled over the past few years. And we all know Palms are ancient.
So the *idea* (as in we have no idea if we'll do it or if it's possible) is that 1: we'd have some sort of converter you could use to connect the standard Rtek serial port to your android device. 2: (and farther down the road) the daughterboard would be updated with new tech and would have this functionality built in.
The problem is twofold. The daughterboards we use use parts that are rather dated and they are getting scarce and more expensive. The price of a daughterboard has almost tripled over the past few years. And we all know Palms are ancient.
So the *idea* (as in we have no idea if we'll do it or if it's possible) is that 1: we'd have some sort of converter you could use to connect the standard Rtek serial port to your android device. 2: (and farther down the road) the daughterboard would be updated with new tech and would have this functionality built in.
03-12-12, 10:24 PM
#24
I am running 2.3.6, although from here on out its going to nexus phones only for the constant firmware updates.
Personally for me logging is the thing I have the most issues with, cable never wants to stay in far enough for a good log on a few minute run.
Personally for me logging is the thing I have the most issues with, cable never wants to stay in far enough for a good log on a few minute run.
03-13-12, 12:04 AM
#25
Right now the plan is to go bluetooth for the existing Rteks. BT Hardware is pretty cheap so Rteks could be retrofitted with a module you plug into the existing connector (plus power...unfortunately, there is no power on the DB9 connector so it will need to be wired in separately).
I got my Motorola Admiral talking with an ECU over bluetooth. Of course it's just sending raw messages back and forth, so it's not very useful. But as a proof of concept, it's a good start. I don't know Java or Android so I have a steep learning curve ahead...
I got my Motorola Admiral talking with an ECU over bluetooth. Of course it's just sending raw messages back and forth, so it's not very useful. But as a proof of concept, it's a good start. I don't know Java or Android so I have a steep learning curve ahead...