*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

I have 2 Quick and possibly stupid questions about timing on the Rtek 2.1 (N332):

1) all values are ACTUAL degrees correct? as in total advance, not advance/retard based off factory value? for instance 20 would be 20*ATDC, -10 would be 10*BTDC??

2) for whatever reason my timing at idle reads -5* (im assuming this is 5*BTDC depending on the answer to question 1) for leading and -20* for trailing. Is the stock timing according to the FSM not L=20ATDC and T=5ATDC?? this would mean that the split is fine (15*) but the CAS is off 25* retarded??? i stumbled onto this while investigating my idle issues, but i dont think this is connected to them since the symptoms seem to be those of a vac leak. (also, the CAS is set to factory spec) so could this be a misreading of the Rtek or what??? thanks

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

turbo2ltr??

solareon

iTrader: (1)

it's total degrees timing.

the -5 and -20 at idle is corrected. the - stands for ATDC. You are running the boost based timing correct? Call me if you have any more questions.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

kyle, ill call you up later on today, im still a bit confused about the timing, cuz shouldnt the "-" mean BTDC??

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

well, now that im thinking of it, i guess it makes sense to have ATDC as negative since you are technically retarding the timing the further in to ATDC you go, rite? just as the further BTDC you go addvances? i guess this is the reasoning....

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

That's what I thought also... Like actual degrees of timing and not total timing advance...

I've only played with the Map based timing not the Load based timing.

But looking back it seems that map based is total timing advance, with no (-) neg numbers..

Load based is a deviation from stock timing + and - values...

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

hmmm...i duno, i thought i had it figured out, but your making me doubt myself!

o, and there are negatives in MAP mode. i wish they would have just had it listed as degrees BTDC or ATDC..

turbo2ltr, where are you dude!! hopefully vacation haha

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The term "advance" can be misleading. It is not advance over some stock value, it is BTDC. So 15 degrees advance means you are firing 15 degrees before top dead center. If you have 20 degrees of timing, you are firing 20 degrees before, meaning 5 degrees earlier than 15. If your timing advance is -5, it is 5 degrees after top dead center.

A 3 day pay advance is like getting your check on Tuesday instead of friday (friday is TDC in the analogy). A -3 day pay advance means those ******* in HR deposited your **** on the following Monday.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

Exactly! Well written and great analogy... Thanks

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

awesome, that what i thought but Nick_d_TII's comment effed me up again! why'd ya dot it nick?? haha, thanks guys

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

...hmmm.... some reason... this damn... period button... stop it... apparently it raises... some doubts... ... Srry.

So *TOUCH*

What's this about extended streetport, 60-1, FMIC, ect.? Any pics/vids/timeslips/dyno graphs? Inquiring minds would like to see.

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

thats the part that was confusing to me since there are neg. values in map mode, making me think that i might be in load mode still somehow!

also, no dyno sheets or time slips yet, but there are pics on my album which can be found on my profile page! befriend me!

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

also, no vids either. the car has been running for about 1.5 months and all the issues have been ironed out. it has ~1220 miles on the new motor so it is really running well now (why i decided to go ahead and start messing with the timing). right now the car is down for the next few days while i wait for my new exhaust to be finished (i got fined for my current one....) but after that, some vids are in order!

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

I don't have any - negative numbers in my timing maps. I've heard people running of neg. split, but haven't heard of any good reasons to try it myself.

From what I've read, don't use the stock MAP based Timing maps. Not saying that you are.

You MUST enter your own values or Engine damage can occur.

15 degrees at 15 psi is what I've read to be safe rule of thumb.

Also that running more advanced timing is dangerous with minimal gains of HP.

Please, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sounds like you'll have quite the beast there!

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

oOo!!! i thought that you were saying negative numbers werent possible in MAP mode!!! i got you now.

yea, im not running the stock map, i took one posted by either you or arghx and amended it to take into account the different mods im running (especially after i noticed slight pinging). i basically took the posted map and retarded everything 10-16 psi by 3*, everything from 5-9psi by 2* and everything from 0-4 psi by 1*. i only really needed to retard the higher boost area, but i wanted it to blend back into the low boost/ vac section of the map as that area showed no problems for me (the motor started pinging rite around full boost (with my boost controller turned all the way down that equals 11 or 12 psi due to my wg spring)). either way, i have not noticed any pinging issues since, so i guess that the map posted by you guys (i believe it was to be used on a knights hybrid with stock ports?) was just too agressive for the amount of air i am moving? and i kno it was not fuel as i have PLENTY of fuel (too much actually) and was hitting mid 10 AFRs. and my intake temps seemed normal, not great, but within an acceptable range i think.

also, yes, i looked at the stock maps...they are agressive as hell! i think at some points i was retarding timing IN BOOST by ~10*!!!!

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

yea, and it is pretty beastly, on a highway run i was running neck and neck with my cousin in his 87 supra. thing has a 60 trim, megasquirt, walbro 255, full 3 inch turbo back straight pipes, 600cc injectors, etc. he dynoed ~370rwhp and ~400rwtq @ 14psi about a year ago. this run was @ 9 psi for him and 12 for me from about 50mph up to 110mph (top of 3rd, 4th and 5th). he pulled on me a little, but not much. its just that 7M's are such tq monsters!! even with the weight advantage, i was still pleased.

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

How are you monitoring the detonation/pinging? Logging the timing retard? Maybe I should try that...

*TOUCH*

iTrader: (29)

haha, cautiously by ear. i am logging it along with boost, injector DC, intake temp, RPM and other stuff (except AFR as i dont have my wideband hooked to my rtek (if thats possible)). they way i kno where it pings is that at that point (when it pings) i let off the throttle. this is mostly cuz i dont want it to continue to ping, but also makes the spots easy to identify in the log by the drastic drop in boost, rpm and TPS. very primitive....i kno