View Poll Results: Next Rtek PocketLOGGER Platform
Palm works fine for me, continue with the Palm
24
19.20%
Windows Laptop
92
73.60%
Linux Laptop
11
8.80%
Mac
6
4.80%
iPhone
19
15.20%
Symbian
0
0%
Android
14
11.20%
Windows Mobile
23
18.40%
Other
7
5.60%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll
Rtek Next Rtek interface platform
10-01-08, 03:32 PM
#29
I like using the palm also. Its small and easy to use. I don't know if I can see myself having to bring around a laptop all the time or when I feel like messing around with the tune at random times.
It would be nice to be able to make large changes (say entire timing map) on the computer though and then plug the palm back into the car.
It would be nice to be able to make large changes (say entire timing map) on the computer though and then plug the palm back into the car.
10-01-08, 03:46 PM
#30
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I like using the palm also. Its small and easy to use. I don't know if I can see myself having to bring around a laptop all the time or when I feel like messing around with the tune at random times.
It would be nice to be able to make large changes (say entire timing map) on the computer though and then plug the palm back into the car.
It would be nice to be able to make large changes (say entire timing map) on the computer though and then plug the palm back into the car.
That is currently what I'm using the palm for now, monitoring temps and stuff.
10-10-08, 05:22 PM
#31
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I posted it in another thread too but i'll post here as well.
Write it in Java! With screens forms for small devices as well as full-size, that way if you want to just log on a PDA you can, or if you need room to pull up full-size maps and such you can plug in the laptop.
Also, since it's cross platform you can run the Java app on Mac/Windows/Linux/etc.
Keep the ECU RS232 - it's simple, flexible, and ubiquitous. USB to RS232 adapters exist for laptops, and you can find Bluetooth to RS232 dongles that provide a bluetooth serial port for wireless stuff like PDA's.
Write it in Java! With screens forms for small devices as well as full-size, that way if you want to just log on a PDA you can, or if you need room to pull up full-size maps and such you can plug in the laptop.
Also, since it's cross platform you can run the Java app on Mac/Windows/Linux/etc.
Keep the ECU RS232 - it's simple, flexible, and ubiquitous. USB to RS232 adapters exist for laptops, and you can find Bluetooth to RS232 dongles that provide a bluetooth serial port for wireless stuff like PDA's.
10-10-08, 06:31 PM
#32
Most Phoes/PDAs (including the iPhone and at least the first version of the G1) don't support the the serial bluetooth profile. I know the Treo does, and I've done a prototype datalogger over bluetooth, but due to technical reasons, it slows the logging rate by about half. I've abandoned bluetooth quite some time ago as a viable way to log.
And while I'm no java expert by any means, I have a feeling that java runtime on phones/pdas is quite limited, especially in the speed area, which is crucial for datalogging.
And while I'm no java expert by any means, I have a feeling that java runtime on phones/pdas is quite limited, especially in the speed area, which is crucial for datalogging.
10-11-08, 03:53 PM
#33
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also agreed. bring the laptop for dyno days or for home tuning/setup/ diagnostics or dataloggit viewing......and then use a palm for simple on the fly street changes or WHY, same applies to using windows mobile or an I-phone.
ideally i would like to be able to use a laptop and SOME sort of in car interface that doesnt involve a fullsize computer (and yes, the Asus EEE counts..)
ideally i would like to be able to use a laptop and SOME sort of in car interface that doesnt involve a fullsize computer (and yes, the Asus EEE counts..)
10-14-08, 05:58 PM
#34
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Laptops suck big time. Big *** thing you can't look at while driving. Big *** thing that you can't read in bright sunlight. Inconvienent as all get out. Boooooo Laptops.
I've tried Laptops with the Zeitronix. Sucks. No laptops. Kill all laptops. This was a HP Pavilion ze4900. Not the best and certainly not the worst. Average laptop device. SUCKS compared to using a PALM M515.
Did I mention I don't like laptops? Inconvienent as all getout. Man. I wish I could really say what I think about laptops and tuning. They'd kick me off this forum. Pee on laptops. NOT meant to be humorous.
I've tried Laptops with the Zeitronix. Sucks. No laptops. Kill all laptops. This was a HP Pavilion ze4900. Not the best and certainly not the worst. Average laptop device. SUCKS compared to using a PALM M515.
Did I mention I don't like laptops? Inconvienent as all getout. Man. I wish I could really say what I think about laptops and tuning. They'd kick me off this forum. Pee on laptops. NOT meant to be humorous.
10-14-08, 09:36 PM
#35
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10-16-08, 07:51 PM
#38
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I used a laptop to tune the e-manage and I thought it was actually very convenient. Ultimately having the ability to tune via more than one platform (like the PDA/Laptop suggestion) is the best, but I don't know if it's feasible. I don't have a PDA and likely will never own one. I do have a couple of lap tops though, and I have to believe in this day and age that most people have lap tops as well.
10-20-08, 03:51 PM
#39
One of the great things about Palm for use with RTek has been the large number of used ones on the market. Recycling them to tune an RTek just makes good sense. I'd spend $50 for a used Palm (though I have 2 Treos in a drawer somewhere I could use) on eBay but I sure wouldn't spend $500 for a new Palm just for that.
So I suggest looking at the next platform that will hit eBay/Craig'sList in substantial numbers the coming years. Except for the fanatical few, folks aren't going to buy a phone and sign up for a multi-year contract to control their RTek. And personally I'd rather have a device for this purpose that if it is stolen I dont care. If someone stole my phone, I'd care.
So, what are the obvious candidates?
Windows Mobile 5 - I have a Motorola Q with Windows Mobile 5 that would probably work well. Its in a drawer. Has a keyboard. I searched on eBay with "motorola q phone used" and there is one for $40. Lots of em for about $125. My sense is that MSFT is losing this battle so there are likely to be a lot of Qs and Blackjacks coming on to the market especially since their 2 year agreements should be expiring.
iPhone - iPhone is cool and would look beautiful in a dash mount holder showing the information from the RTek. The problem is that in the US you limit your audience to AT&T subscribers. And I wouldnt want to use my phone to monitor my RTek.
Android - Android is cool but the question is how many devices are going to be available for repurposing that support it in the coming years. Who knows if Android will supplant iPhone and Blackberry. Either way, the used market for Android devices is probably a long ways off and again I wouldnt want to use my phone to monitor the RTek.
Blackberries - There are a bunch of used Blackberries on eBay. I dont know how hard it is to develop for Blackberries. Crappy display, lots of models (dont know if software has to be coded differently for each model) but nice keyboard (except the minimal one which I find impossible to use)
iPod Touch - Apple refreshes their product line very aggressively which "obsoletes" old models. I have close to 10 different versions of iPods including 2 Touches around the house. Obviously non-Touch iPods wouldnt be appropriate for RTek but my example illustrates why there is reason to believe that Touches will likely enter the secondary market in good numbers. While the prices for used Touches on eBay are still close to $200, they are bound to come down. Second, it provides a big, beautiful display and with an RTek I'd guess that you want to monitor a lot more than you want to do data entry. On my Q 60% of the face is the keyboard so while monitoring that 60% has no value. Three, the Touch makes a great music player for integrating with the car stereo. With the large number of iPod car stereo kits available, a lot of people already will have an iPod in their car. Why not dual purpose it? I wouldnt want to dual purpose my phone though since I might want to make a call.
So if it were me, I'd probably go with this order:
1) iPod Touch
2) Windows Mobile 5 (and 6 if it is free)
3) Blackberry
I wouldnt bother with iPhone (except that it comes free if you support Touch) or Android unless you just like coding for geekness sake.
btw, I'm a VP of Product for a software company. I HATE
having to deal with multiple platforms. Oracle vs SQLServer. Tomcat vs Weblogic vs Websphere. IE vs Firefox vs Safari vs Chrome vs Opera. All it does is waste time and money that could be used to deliver more value to the customer. In the enterprise software market, that's just life. I dont think it needs to be in yours.
Good luck on your decision.
Jim
So I suggest looking at the next platform that will hit eBay/Craig'sList in substantial numbers the coming years. Except for the fanatical few, folks aren't going to buy a phone and sign up for a multi-year contract to control their RTek. And personally I'd rather have a device for this purpose that if it is stolen I dont care. If someone stole my phone, I'd care.
So, what are the obvious candidates?
Windows Mobile 5 - I have a Motorola Q with Windows Mobile 5 that would probably work well. Its in a drawer. Has a keyboard. I searched on eBay with "motorola q phone used" and there is one for $40. Lots of em for about $125. My sense is that MSFT is losing this battle so there are likely to be a lot of Qs and Blackjacks coming on to the market especially since their 2 year agreements should be expiring.
iPhone - iPhone is cool and would look beautiful in a dash mount holder showing the information from the RTek. The problem is that in the US you limit your audience to AT&T subscribers. And I wouldnt want to use my phone to monitor my RTek.
Android - Android is cool but the question is how many devices are going to be available for repurposing that support it in the coming years. Who knows if Android will supplant iPhone and Blackberry. Either way, the used market for Android devices is probably a long ways off and again I wouldnt want to use my phone to monitor the RTek.
Blackberries - There are a bunch of used Blackberries on eBay. I dont know how hard it is to develop for Blackberries. Crappy display, lots of models (dont know if software has to be coded differently for each model) but nice keyboard (except the minimal one which I find impossible to use)
iPod Touch - Apple refreshes their product line very aggressively which "obsoletes" old models. I have close to 10 different versions of iPods including 2 Touches around the house. Obviously non-Touch iPods wouldnt be appropriate for RTek but my example illustrates why there is reason to believe that Touches will likely enter the secondary market in good numbers. While the prices for used Touches on eBay are still close to $200, they are bound to come down. Second, it provides a big, beautiful display and with an RTek I'd guess that you want to monitor a lot more than you want to do data entry. On my Q 60% of the face is the keyboard so while monitoring that 60% has no value. Three, the Touch makes a great music player for integrating with the car stereo. With the large number of iPod car stereo kits available, a lot of people already will have an iPod in their car. Why not dual purpose it? I wouldnt want to dual purpose my phone though since I might want to make a call.
So if it were me, I'd probably go with this order:
1) iPod Touch
2) Windows Mobile 5 (and 6 if it is free)
3) Blackberry
I wouldnt bother with iPhone (except that it comes free if you support Touch) or Android unless you just like coding for geekness sake.
btw, I'm a VP of Product for a software company. I HATE
having to deal with multiple platforms. Oracle vs SQLServer. Tomcat vs Weblogic vs Websphere. IE vs Firefox vs Safari vs Chrome vs Opera. All it does is waste time and money that could be used to deliver more value to the customer. In the enterprise software market, that's just life. I dont think it needs to be in yours.Good luck on your decision.
Jim
12-08-08, 07:41 AM
#42
moded not stirred
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This an opinion of just one, but why would you go to a larger device such as laptop other than for fuel map entries.
Palm has been around for quite a while, and I am willing to bet it will stay here. With the amount of software available for it, and the hardware that has been produced already, there always going to be used Palm for sale.
Also, Palm OS is one of the more stable OSs out there (mobile devices).
I am truly amazed how many people have been assimilated by the the Micro$oft Borg. If everyone jumps off the cliff, why don't you?
On the other had, everyone has the dang Windows laptop, so the potential user base is larger - from the business point of view.
Palm has been around for quite a while, and I am willing to bet it will stay here. With the amount of software available for it, and the hardware that has been produced already, there always going to be used Palm for sale.
Also, Palm OS is one of the more stable OSs out there (mobile devices).
I am truly amazed how many people have been assimilated by the the Micro$oft Borg. If everyone jumps off the cliff, why don't you?
On the other had, everyone has the dang Windows laptop, so the potential user base is larger - from the business point of view.
04-01-09, 02:09 AM
#44
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Im ok with Itouch/Iphone or a laptop Used laptops can be had cheap and also nettops are cheap and very small. Dell sells a 10" screen nettop for like $300
BC
BC
04-10-09, 10:37 AM
#45
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why not run both palm and windows for those that dont have a laptop and for those that do i have a acer mini notebook and i have a centro so i would love to use both on mimes but wouldnt that be better to do both so that those who like the pda type tuning can keep theres and for those that have a lap top can pick up the new software?
04-10-09, 10:51 AM
#46
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and speaking on laptops acer sells an 8 " which i have for like 260 it has 160gb and it runs windows when i carry it around no one even knows its a laptop until i pull it out and show them they all thinks its a dvd player but its small and easy to carry around and on the other hand you can always find a pda for cheap anywhere i voted for palm to stay but at the same time going to a laptop to do tunning would be nice and keeping the pda to do small tunning on the go if you think about it....it makes sense but will it be feesable
04-10-09, 06:11 PM
#48
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Why go out and buy new devices? Almost everyone has a laptop. As soon as a Windows laptop version Rtek is out, Ill buy it. Having to buy the palm and cables its whats held me back this whole time.
04-10-09, 08:35 PM
#50
The only reason I haven't already bought r-tek is do to the fact of not being able to tune it from a laptop. I am looking at the megasquirt now or the map ecu from nz. I would rather use the factory ecu if it was completely tunable like hondata but it has to be by laptop (windows based) or its not worth it. How else would I be able to send maps and screen shots to somebody for help if I'm stuck on a question about something or give them a copy of the sodtware to fiddle with to help me out. Hondata is the best factory tunable ecu product on the market. Its a shame honda never made a rotary or I'd use that. Make it window based. plus the laptop can be used with some widebands and is a more powerful tool for every reason possible.
I don't understand this lugging around a laptop? You only tune the car once unless you make a change to the engine configuration. Sooooo........why would you ever bring the laptop with you after the cars tuned????? Tunable ecus and stand alones aren't to be fiddled with constantly you tune the car and the tune stays the same until something warrants retuning it. Am I the only one that understands that? Why monitor the ecu? You did that when you tuned it. Its fine leave it alone and go have some fun with the car. If a problem arises then hookup to it and see what it is.
I don't understand this lugging around a laptop? You only tune the car once unless you make a change to the engine configuration. Sooooo........why would you ever bring the laptop with you after the cars tuned????? Tunable ecus and stand alones aren't to be fiddled with constantly you tune the car and the tune stays the same until something warrants retuning it. Am I the only one that understands that? Why monitor the ecu? You did that when you tuned it. Its fine leave it alone and go have some fun with the car. If a problem arises then hookup to it and see what it is.
