Jumping ship
12-31-10, 11:54 AM
#51
Senior Member
I Agree. 600-700hp 13b's are a comfortable level. You can get away with alot and the motors live. In a light car with good drivetrain and you will go fast.
This I would honestly say you can race all year with one engine.
The problem becomes when you start pushing power levels.
This I would honestly say you can race all year with one engine.
The problem becomes when you start pushing power levels.
12-31-10, 01:05 PM
#53
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It's kinda like this!!secrets are for the military,those who choose to cheat on there wives,all the stuff like that!!I have asked a million questions and got 10 answers in return.my wallet can not take all this research and development any longer.with the last four builds in six months I could have had my twin turbo SBC running!!!I used our mill at work to stud the engine,I guessed at what I believe would be adiquit clearance for the rotors to side plates,I also guessed at removing .006 off the face of the rotor would be enough.I think this combo I had put together would have worked very well but I spun a bearing and lost oil pressure.I was so feed up with it!!when the oil pressure went away(20 psi) I was about 20 miles away from the house(driving it on the street)I said **** this mother ****** I'm going home,I drove it on the freeway with the 20 psi for about 14 miles,it went down to 10 then 0 before it died!!so **** it!!I understand these rotor specialty shops need money to keep the doors open!!but when I can do all the work myself I just need a little guidance to steer me in the right direction!believe me all I DO NOT want to put a SBC in it but the wallet can't take this anymore!!with the bone stock block FD I made at least 200 passes and 5000 street miles on it with not one problem.I had gone as fast as a 9.59 @ 135 with my street car!!!so with this SBC I should be able to run mid 8's all day every day driving it to the track and back home!!
12-31-10, 04:26 PM
#56
I Agree. 600-700hp 13b's are a comfortable level. You can get away with alot and the motors live. In a light car with good drivetrain and you will go fast.
This I would honestly say you can race all year with one engine.
The problem becomes when you start pushing power levels.
This I would honestly say you can race all year with one engine.
The problem becomes when you start pushing power levels.
I'll agree that a v8 piston engine setup will last longer in the 6 to low 7 second range. That's a no brainer and you can't compare an engine that has 4 x the displacement as it is not working as hard. Now comparing a 4 cylinder piston engine to a rotary is more fair and that's debateable. I guess you'll let us know.
It also depends on the parts and tunner. High end parts and a top notch tunner will make any combo last longer.
12-31-10, 04:46 PM
#57
Rotary Freak
that's a bit of wishful thinking. How many racers do you see running that many passes without opening their engines. Most make it to about 10-15 runs from what I see.
On the east coast at our local races the only cars I can say almost 100% that will be at the next race is pepo loco and Canaca. And they ran on the same motor all year.
The faster a rotary goes the faster you will need to pull the engine.
Hick ups occur more often then not. Spin the tires too much hurt the motor, two step too much hurt the motor, hit the rev limiter hurt the motor, tire shake hurt the motor.
You get the idea and these things happen all the time in drag racing and are almost unpreventable.
Pistons don't seem to care about that stuff and will be there for you next round.
I thought of a cute analogy.
Pistons motors are like dogs.
They are a mans best friend and will always be there for you.
Rotarys engines are like women.
They are delicate, expensive, hard to keep, high maintainence,
And after all that we still keep them. Lol.
Some of us are better off with dogs.
On the east coast at our local races the only cars I can say almost 100% that will be at the next race is pepo loco and Canaca. And they ran on the same motor all year.
The faster a rotary goes the faster you will need to pull the engine.
Hick ups occur more often then not. Spin the tires too much hurt the motor, two step too much hurt the motor, hit the rev limiter hurt the motor, tire shake hurt the motor.
You get the idea and these things happen all the time in drag racing and are almost unpreventable.
Pistons don't seem to care about that stuff and will be there for you next round.
I thought of a cute analogy.
Pistons motors are like dogs.
They are a mans best friend and will always be there for you.
Rotarys engines are like women.
They are delicate, expensive, hard to keep, high maintainence,
And after all that we still keep them. Lol.
Some of us are better off with dogs.
12-31-10, 05:51 PM
#58
The sweet spot in my car is 700hp to the back wheels without any parts coming off ..
the track is not my work shop anymore , I drive my car onto the trailer not have my friends push it . no broken or crack steels , no rotors hitting plates , and my intakes don't look like a bomb went off . I credit this to help from Rene at his dyno and share information . by no means I'm saying 700hp is good news or anything to brag about, it's old news, but this is how far I've come and how much I know and can actually afford $$$
How about you papa bear what's your goal 7sec or 6sec ? actually 7sec is old news
so is got to be the 6 sec club you going to need some serious hp and a big pit crew $$$$$$
the track is not my work shop anymore , I drive my car onto the trailer not have my friends push it . no broken or crack steels , no rotors hitting plates , and my intakes don't look like a bomb went off . I credit this to help from Rene at his dyno and share information . by no means I'm saying 700hp is good news or anything to brag about, it's old news, but this is how far I've come and how much I know and can actually afford $$$
How about you papa bear what's your goal 7sec or 6sec ? actually 7sec is old news
so is got to be the 6 sec club you going to need some serious hp and a big pit crew $$$$$$
700 rear wheel hp = 9 second et sounds about right on rene's dyno, I will be out when the time is right, I have other goals i'm chasing besides racing car's.
But believe this, You will not be disappointed when I race again. And it will be with a reliable 13B. It's rotary or nothing for me. Have a happy new year.
12-31-10, 06:35 PM
#59
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Enzo I been staying out of your stupid rambling about the rotary and your problems for a while. BUT U ARE NOBODY to talk about what a rotary engine could do and can't DO!! First and foremost I have tons of friends in Puerto Rico that run over 25 runs on Goopy apex seals using methanol and stop the clock consistently at 7.2@188 mph. 1 engine running almost a whole season without tearing it apart. horsepower they make is well over 900rwhp. You my friend are NOT AN ENGINE BUILDER.. you my friend CANNOT TUNE A ROTARY ON METHANOL. your blaming the rotary engine for failures that came about your lack of tuning a rotary on methanol. All your failures were based on warped APEX SEALS.. that my friend is YOUR FAULT AND YOUR FAULT ONLY. every time a rotary warp's a seal. is totally do to poor tuning. So don't come talking like if you know what the **** your doing and like you did every thing perfect and the rotary gave up. all your engine failures were do to your failure to understand that a rotary on meth is not tuned like a rotary on Q16. so SIT BACK RELAX and keep your mouth SHUT.. happy new year ROOKIE...
12-31-10, 06:38 PM
#60
Senior Member
Since this thread is going to waste ill chime in also
700 rear wheel hp = 9 second et sounds about right on rene's dyno, I will be out when the time is right, I have other goals i'm chasing besides racing car's.
But believe this, You will not be disappointed when I race again. And it will be with a reliable 13B. It's rotary or nothing for me. Have a happy new year.
700 rear wheel hp = 9 second et sounds about right on rene's dyno, I will be out when the time is right, I have other goals i'm chasing besides racing car's.
But believe this, You will not be disappointed when I race again. And it will be with a reliable 13B. It's rotary or nothing for me. Have a happy new year.
12-31-10, 06:41 PM
#61
Senior Member
Enzo I been staying out of your stupid rambling about the rotary and your problems for a while. BUT U ARE NOBODY to talk about what a rotary engine could do and can't DO!! First and foremost I have tons of friends in Puerto Rico that run over 25 runs on Goopy apex seals using methanol and stop the clock consistently at 7.2@188 mph. 1 engine running almost a whole season without tearing it apart. horsepower they make is well over 900rwhp. You my friend are NOT AN ENGINE BUILDER.. you my friend CANNOT TUNE A ROTARY ON METHANOL. your blaming the rotary engine for failures that came about your lack of tuning a rotary on methanol. All your failures were based on warped APEX SEALS.. that my friend is YOUR FAULT AND YOUR FAULT ONLY. every time a rotary warp's a seal. is totally do to poor tuning. So don't come talking like if you know what the **** your doing and like you did every thing perfect and the rotary gave up. all your engine failures were do to your failure to understand that a rotary on meth is not tuned like a rotary on Q16. so SIT BACK RELAX and keep your mouth SHUT.. happy new year ROOKIE...
12-31-10, 06:48 PM
#62
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12-31-10, 07:09 PM
#63
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WOW guys!!!I didn't think it would turn into this!!!I was just kidding about the V8 swap (but I did think about it)my frame rails are 20 inchs apart so the V8 swap would be all most impossible!!!the rotary will stay in the car but DAM it to hell!!!!but seriously if you know what works for rotor side clearance (the face and sides) give me a little insight!!I just finished pulling the engine out of the car and so far the irons look ok through the exhaust ports,The rotor housings look ok!!one rotor still has compression,the turbo hit the exhaust housing a little but I have a new wheel I have had for awhile(so that saves me 200)I think the front o-ring in the front cover might have let go.the o-ring kit I bought from RA stated to use the o-ring only with out the Teflon back up ring is this bad?if any of you have spun a rotor bearing do you loose all the oil pressure?Any tech tips for clearances would be appreciated!!!one more thing I think I am running out of fuel the more I think about who sells a ready to bolt on mechanical fuel pump for the 13b(first gen front cover on a FD block)thanks guys but the rotary must stay in the RX2!!!!!!!!!!!
12-31-10, 07:12 PM
#64
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12-31-10, 07:27 PM
#65
WOW guys!!!I didn't think it would turn into this!!!I was just kidding about the V8 swap (but I did think about it)my frame rails are 20 inchs apart so the V8 swap would be all most impossible!!!the rotary will stay in the car but DAM it to hell!!!!but seriously if you know what works for rotor side clearance (the face and sides) give me a little insight!!I just finished pulling the engine out of the car and so far the irons look ok through the exhaust ports,The rotor housings look ok!!one rotor still has compression,the turbo hit the exhaust housing a little but I have a new wheel I have had for awhile(so that saves me 200)I think the front o-ring in the front cover might have let go.the o-ring kit I bought from RA stated to use the o-ring only with out the Teflon back up ring is this bad?if any of you have spun a rotor bearing do you loose all the oil pressure?Any tech tips for clearances would be appreciated!!!one more thing I think I am running out of fuel the more I think about who sells a ready to bolt on mechanical fuel pump for the 13b(first gen front cover on a FD block)thanks guys but the rotary must stay in the RX2!!!!!!!!!!!
Give me a call and I'll solve your oiling problems once and forever. I also have two brand new rotor bearings that I said I will give you, but after pulling my chain the cost is double now.
Call me.
12-31-10, 07:36 PM
#66
Senior Member
WOW guys!!!I didn't think it would turn into this!!!I was just kidding about the V8 swap (but I did think about it)my frame rails are 20 inchs apart so the V8 swap would be all most impossible!!!the rotary will stay in the car but DAM it to hell!!!!but seriously if you know what works for rotor side clearance (the face and sides) give me a little insight!!I just finished pulling the engine out of the car and so far the irons look ok through the exhaust ports,The rotor housings look ok!!one rotor still has compression,the turbo hit the exhaust housing a little but I have a new wheel I have had for awhile(so that saves me 200)I think the front o-ring in the front cover might have let go.the o-ring kit I bought from RA stated to use the o-ring only with out the Teflon back up ring is this bad?if any of you have spun a rotor bearing do you loose all the oil pressure?Any tech tips for clearances would be appreciated!!!one more thing I think I am running out of fuel the more I think about who sells a ready to bolt on mechanical fuel pump for the 13b(first gen front cover on a FD block)thanks guys but the rotary must stay in the RX2!!!!!!!!!!!
12-31-10, 08:47 PM
#67
WOW Judge.. Happy New Year to you too...
I don't claim to be anybody and definitely not some rotary guru. Whether or not you think I'm a good engine builder or Tuner don't phase me one bit.. I know what I'm capable of and could care less what other's think...or how they "judge me" At least i'm out there trying...
My problems with the rotary as I have always stated was that it wasn't working for me both financially and time consumption. I couldn't keep up with the maintenance as there's only so much I can do and never enough time in the day.
So since you know so much about my engine failures let's recap. I've bent seals twice.
Once with 3mm mazda seals which i've been told won't work (by many in PR) and I made them last for me just fine. The other time was with 2mm seals that I kept leaning on the engine and bent a couple seals. **** happens but how else will you find the limit of something? I would never hesitate to push my own car to find any limit.. That's just the way I am.. Those are the only time's this non tuning engine builder has bent apex seals.. So there you have it.
I hope you and your family have a happy and healthy new year...
I don't claim to be anybody and definitely not some rotary guru. Whether or not you think I'm a good engine builder or Tuner don't phase me one bit.. I know what I'm capable of and could care less what other's think...or how they "judge me" At least i'm out there trying...
My problems with the rotary as I have always stated was that it wasn't working for me both financially and time consumption. I couldn't keep up with the maintenance as there's only so much I can do and never enough time in the day.
So since you know so much about my engine failures let's recap. I've bent seals twice.
Once with 3mm mazda seals which i've been told won't work (by many in PR) and I made them last for me just fine. The other time was with 2mm seals that I kept leaning on the engine and bent a couple seals. **** happens but how else will you find the limit of something? I would never hesitate to push my own car to find any limit.. That's just the way I am.. Those are the only time's this non tuning engine builder has bent apex seals.. So there you have it.
I hope you and your family have a happy and healthy new year...
12-31-10, 08:48 PM
#68
01-01-11, 07:47 AM
#69
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Beefcake that write there is what most people don't realize.
You just nailed it and that only comes from experience on both sides.
People will always try to brag on how cheap a rotary is too build.
That's only if you u put it together with used crap parts.
That might work well for 500hp engines but not for 800hp+ engines.
With me basically doing all the work myself and the help of my friend I had 6k+ into my engines.
Then after every event or every other event the motor had to come out for some reason.
Then rebuild would vary from 1k-3k depending on what needed repair.
Do that for 12-15 events and see how cheap the rotary really is.
Now spend 10-15k on a piston motor that will run all year with very little maintainence and
see which is cheaper in the long run.
I agree my passion will always be with a rotary but it's not easy to keep up with.
You just nailed it and that only comes from experience on both sides.
People will always try to brag on how cheap a rotary is too build.
That's only if you u put it together with used crap parts.
That might work well for 500hp engines but not for 800hp+ engines.
With me basically doing all the work myself and the help of my friend I had 6k+ into my engines.
Then after every event or every other event the motor had to come out for some reason.
Then rebuild would vary from 1k-3k depending on what needed repair.
Do that for 12-15 events and see how cheap the rotary really is.
Now spend 10-15k on a piston motor that will run all year with very little maintainence and
see which is cheaper in the long run.
I agree my passion will always be with a rotary but it's not easy to keep up with.
Last edited by ErnieT; 01-01-11 at 08:04 AM.
01-01-11, 09:10 AM
#70
You say you had $6k in your motor, but when I said you should try extra dowels, stud kit, and billet e-shaft you say its not necessary to make it reliable, but still couldn't make yours reliable. You also say how a junk yard engine is all thats necessary, yet you take your motor out after every event? What possibly would cost $6k if you never did any of these things? You say your motors went after burn outs and on the two step too long or over reving the motor. I've never seen this happen Enzo. I sit on the ant-lag longer then anyone I've seen. Hell look at my vids. I bounce off the limiter on every burnout. I dont claim to be a rotary genus either, but you contradict yourself on almost every post.
Ernie why would I need to do those things if I don't have any issues with broken plates or rotor's hitting? Or any flexing issue's whatsoever?
My brother's junk yard engine is all that's necessary when your making 500~700hp YES.
I will STILL SAY THAT. And with that power you can run forever as that's the rotor G spot as other's have already said...
6K Huh. What possibly could cost that much. Okay let's see.
2 rotors housing at dealer cost $1300
Good used jspec core for irons and rotater. $1500~$1800
Balancing of parts $500
Apex seals, sides, corners, close up kits, etc 1000~1500
bearings, etc,etc..
machining for semi, dowel pins, etc.. 750~1000
oh wow is that already between 5 ~ 6k and your still not figuring in labor for assembly, porting, etc. Yeah Rotary's are so cheap to build..
How would you know when my motor's went ernie when you've only been to the track maybe once or twice when I was racing anyhow. And an engine breaking doesn't mean It no longer runs. I know when it's hurt..
And I will say it again
Yes 2 steps are hard on rotary's and over revving is bad.
My 2 step is completely different then yours buddy..
Your engine isn't making anywhere near the power level to be dangerous ernie.
My brother's car hasn't had any issues on the 2 step either but you can't compare his two step to mine either.
Yeah so I guess I contradict myself.
Have a Happy New Year to you too.
You guy's won't have to worry about me rambling my bullshit anymore.
It's a new year and I have already moved on.
I can promise you this NOBODY and Bad Tuner's Car won't be bending apex seals in 2011..
01-01-11, 11:43 AM
#71
Senior Member
What i can gather from all of this is that, maybe I'm trying to go fast on a corn bread budget but rotaries parts can be re used again , again , the engines plates don't crack as much if you stud and tune right, and the rest is left to the apex seal maker of your choice to see if you get 10 passes or 30 passes , high hp application require 2 piece e shaft but you can still use the stock one but don't be surprise if you crack the front plate around the stationary area above 800rwhp+++ correct? I totally agree that the parts we need to make the rotary go fast are here now, and the rest is put in the hands of the builder and tuner .
01-01-11, 12:53 PM
#72
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Enzo I been staying out of your stupid rambling about the rotary and your problems for a while. BUT U ARE NOBODY to talk about what a rotary engine could do and can't DO!! First and foremost I have tons of friends in Puerto Rico that run over 25 runs on Goopy apex seals using methanol and stop the clock consistently at 7.2@188 mph. 1 engine running almost a whole season without tearing it apart. horsepower they make is well over 900rwhp. You my friend are NOT AN ENGINE BUILDER.. you my friend CANNOT TUNE A ROTARY ON METHANOL. your blaming the rotary engine for failures that came about your lack of tuning a rotary on methanol. All your failures were based on warped APEX SEALS.. that my friend is YOUR FAULT AND YOUR FAULT ONLY. every time a rotary warp's a seal. is totally do to poor tuning. So don't come talking like if you know what the **** your doing and like you did every thing perfect and the rotary gave up. all your engine failures were do to your failure to understand that a rotary on meth is not tuned like a rotary on Q16. so SIT BACK RELAX and keep your mouth SHUT.. happy new year ROOKIE...
Maybe you should have continued to stay quiet cause unlike the rest of the posts in here you my friend clearly provided grounds for a commercial defamation lawsuit... look it up.
not like we would even bother or care to pursue it but just letting you know so YOU should sit back, relax, and keep your mouth shut 
in fact the more people post on here the more its republished and each time is a seperate claim. I love how the most criticism comes from people on the sidelines basing opinions on what others have done.
What a way to bring in the New Year..
01-01-11, 01:02 PM
#73
Rotary Freak
WOW Judge.. Happy New Year to you too...
I don't claim to be anybody and definitely not some rotary guru. Whether or not you think I'm a good engine builder or Tuner don't phase me one bit.. I know what I'm capable of and could care less what other's think...or how they "judge me" At least i'm out there trying...
My problems with the rotary as I have always stated was that it wasn't working for me both financially and time consumption. I couldn't keep up with the maintenance as there's only so much I can do and never enough time in the day.
So since you know so much about my engine failures let's recap. I've bent seals twice.
Once with 3mm mazda seals which i've been told won't work (by many in PR) and I made them last for me just fine. The other time was with 2mm seals that I kept leaning on the engine and bent a couple seals. **** happens but how else will you find the limit of something? I would never hesitate to push my own car to find any limit.. That's just the way I am.. Those are the only time's this non tuning engine builder has bent apex seals.. So there you have it.
I hope you and your family have a happy and healthy new year...
I don't claim to be anybody and definitely not some rotary guru. Whether or not you think I'm a good engine builder or Tuner don't phase me one bit.. I know what I'm capable of and could care less what other's think...or how they "judge me" At least i'm out there trying...
My problems with the rotary as I have always stated was that it wasn't working for me both financially and time consumption. I couldn't keep up with the maintenance as there's only so much I can do and never enough time in the day.
So since you know so much about my engine failures let's recap. I've bent seals twice.
Once with 3mm mazda seals which i've been told won't work (by many in PR) and I made them last for me just fine. The other time was with 2mm seals that I kept leaning on the engine and bent a couple seals. **** happens but how else will you find the limit of something? I would never hesitate to push my own car to find any limit.. That's just the way I am.. Those are the only time's this non tuning engine builder has bent apex seals.. So there you have it.
I hope you and your family have a happy and healthy new year...
The moral of the story is simple. YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A SPOKESMAN FOR WHAT THE ROTARY CAN AND CAN'T DO!!!!
01-01-11, 01:06 PM
#74
Rotary Freak
Maybe you should have continued to stay quiet cause unlike the rest of the posts in here you my friend clearly provided grounds for a commercial defamation lawsuit... look it up. not like we would even bother or care to pursue it but just letting you know so YOU should sit back, relax, and keep your mouth shut in fact the more people post on here the more its republished and each time is a seperate claim.
I love how the most criticism comes from people on the sidelines basing opinions on what others have done.
What a way to bring in the New Year..
not like we would even bother or care to pursue it but just letting you know so YOU should sit back, relax, and keep your mouth shut in fact the more people post on here the more its republished and each time is a seperate claim. I love how the most criticism comes from people on the sidelines basing opinions on what others have done.
What a way to bring in the New Year..
01-01-11, 01:22 PM
#75
Judge please stop with the inaccurate assumptions.
You have never seen any of my failures so who are you to comment.
No one here is acting like a kid. My turbos are melting? Dude that's funny.
My egts are high? Do you even know where they are? Or where they should be?
Borg Warner turbos are known to fail from excessive shaft speeds and with 270 bearings.
I don't want to keep arguing as this is becoming very childish.
Maybe one day you'll get your car running and I'll put in a rotary engine back in my car temporarily and well see who is who.
You have never seen any of my failures so who are you to comment.
No one here is acting like a kid. My turbos are melting? Dude that's funny.
My egts are high? Do you even know where they are? Or where they should be?
Borg Warner turbos are known to fail from excessive shaft speeds and with 270 bearings.
I don't want to keep arguing as this is becoming very childish.
Maybe one day you'll get your car running and I'll put in a rotary engine back in my car temporarily and well see who is who.