JHew84

iTrader: (9)

Can you explain why many people have been using synthetic for years with no problems? NO, so until you can why not go do some reading?

Zebb

Thats just BS. Mazda recommended minerals with the -02 Rx-7:s too. And the syntitics was great back in -92.

Kento

Sure. You're not looking at my responses logically.

Go back and read my original response about warranty claims. You're taking the simplistic wording of a bulletin that deals with a very complex subject as gospel. This is not "evidence" that all synthetic engine oils are bad for FDs and will result in the incredibly huge deposits shown in the photo. It is only a typical response from a manufacturer to deal with a potential problem that may occur under a particular usage type and pattern that could cost them warranty claims, so in order to cover all their bases, they just take the easy route and proclaim that all synthetic engine oils are bad for rotaries.

My "evidence" was stated previously: the thousands of engines that have been run and torn down that show none of the deposits depicted in the bulletin photo. And the countless engines that have run (and run well, for many miles) on synthetic oil.

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

*were* great. And how do you know? Lets see some of YOUR research? Answer my other question, how do you explain MANY forum members running synthetic with no problems for years. And other people cannot attribute any of their problems to running synthetic. So other than a factory issued recomendation (keep in mind what a recomendation really is) what are you basing your "facts" on? Also keeping in mind manufacturers are not always known for being the most reliable sources of information considering they don't always have the consumers best interests at heart, and rather their own. Like someone else has already explained to you (a few times now) it is an easy way for them to say "sorry, warranty voided".

Personally i'll take the word of all the reputable rotary builders and senior members who have been in the game for YEARS and have personally experienced these thing.

Kento

The company wasn't exactly in a financial position to go through the trouble of conducting any testing or detailed examination of engines, and then change the printing of the owner's manual...
There wasn't the number and different formulations that are available now.

Zebb

Yes, but there IS a possibility. I dont think Mazda lies about this. And if they do, this change is not going to solve anything and they will have to live with the oil change as long as the Rx-8 exists. This is not a good thing if the syntetic is so superior that you are saying. I KNOW (as i said) that syntetics are good for bearings etc, but im very sceptical when it comes to the apex seals.

I dont think these huge piles of carbon deposits is anything to worry about in the FD, but i dont think its healthy to run syntetics. If syntetics turns to this "goo" when burned, the lubing quality cant be good. Bah! My english suck, i cant explain.

It would be fun to see a test with two identical engines and use two different oils in them. But thats not going to happen...

I do agree that there might be some BIG differences in oil quality between different brands. And its hard to define oils today. Example; Castrols "full-syntetics" are not fully syntetic. That might be a huge explanation in some cases.

Zebb

I have used syntetics.

For years? Do you mean 2 years or 10? It seams like engines break here all the time. I dont think its just because off the oil used but it might be a cause.

And what do they say if you have used mineral oil? "Ohh, your engine runs great! Why are you here?"

What do the Japanese tuners use?

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

this is where your story falls apart, blindly beleiving a company who is being pretty vague on the subject to begin with. They never ran any tests, never produced any definitive data, so why should we beleive them? Especially beleive them over the reputable rotar-heads who frequent these forums.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Somebody move this thread out of the FD section. Not even the least bit relevant to our (turbo) engines.....

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Somebody move this thread out of the FD section. Not even the least bit relevant to our (turbo) engines.....

Kento

Sigh. Please read my responses about warranty claims...

The owners who use synthetic motor oil aren't trying to "solve" anything; they're not expecting to reap huge amounts of horsepower or have their engine last 200,000 miles no matter what. They're just looking for the little extra performance that comes from using synthetics.

Please do an internet search on "synthetic oil film strength"...and then think about the thin film that is deposited on the housing walls with seals raking across them up to 24000 times a minute...

Again... what makes you think that all synthetic motor oils will result in this "goo"?
Well, you've basically got the thousands of engines that have run well on dino oil, and the thousands of engines that have run well on synthetic oil. What more do you need?

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

no, but if you have been using synthetics and pop a motor it makes it easy for them to dismiss your claim due to your "neglegence" without even further looking into the problem. This is not a new technique for car manuf. And does it really matter what japanese tuners are using? Reputable tuners in the states are using synthetic with no problems, why is this not enough for you? .

Zebb

You might be right. But as i said, Mazda gains nothing by doing this IF the engines runs better with syntetics. Hmmm... They will have to repair them sooner though...

It does matter what the japanese tuners are using. Rotarys are extremly common in Japan (no ****?! ) and if anybody knows what oil to use its them.


Im really not saying what to use or not. But everyone thats thinking of going syntetic should think twice about it and know this info.

Larz

Until someone proves that oil caused an engine failure for one of us, don't worry about it. To date, I have seen no proof that syn does cause engine failure. You're concerned with the other side: you want proof it won't cause a failure. How about the use of it in several cars on this forum that run? Good enough for you?
RP 10-30. I primarily use my FD for auto x. 60K miles on the engine she rolled off the line with.

Zebb

Yeah, maybe good enough. But explain to me why Mazda, a HUGE company recommends an INFERIOR(!) oil to ALL there rotarys. There MUST be a reson, and i want to know why. I dont belive it has anything to do with poor research. They must have seen some big downside with syntetics...

When i know that i might change my oil

Juan

iTrader: (28)

Pick up one of those RX-7 books from Japan and you'll see plenty of ads for synthetic oils in them from reputable rotary shops. Some of these shops are: RMagic, FEED, Blitz and the list goes on. I'm too lazy to look at RE-Amemiyas website but I wouldnt be surprised to see them using or even selling their own brand of full synthetics.

American tuners have been using synthetics as well with good results. If you're scared to use them, stick with mineral oil so you can sleep well at night.

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

They didn't know whether or not it would cause problems. So rather than actually doing the research (this is what they gained) they just recomend not using it, which also gives dealerships a good excuse to refuse warranty work. Seriously its all been laid out for you numerous times now, how is it not getting through? obviously rotarys are more prevalent in japan, but if people in the states are running their cars on synthetic with no issues why does it matter what the japanese are using? Noone is saying mineral oil is BAD to use, and many people might just use it for the sake of using it, but that doesn't mean synthetic is bad either.

FD3S-K

iTrader: (6)

Ok im scurred...i used Royal Purple 5w30...is that good?

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

or they just wanted to save some money not researching it, which is very common with "huge companys", do some research on that if you'd like and you'll see i'm not lieing. And if you feel so strongly about it then don't use synthetics, no use scaring other people because you don't have the common sense to listen to proven results .

Juan

iTrader: (28)

How about this: Its a few million dollars cheaper for Mazda to buy mineral oil.

Mazda is a business. Businesses are out to make money. Telling everyone to use mineral oil is a much cheaper solution than spending millions of their own dollars to conduct individual tests on all synthetic oils.

I've been on this forum for a few years now and I have yet to see someone crying about blowing their engine because of synthetic oils.

Zebb

I can help you: http://www.re-amemiya.co.jp/commodit...0a374&scd=5314

No, i cant sleep, its 04:46 AM here!

Zebb

But they use it in all other cars. They must have researched that.

Do you really think that they havent tested the rotary with syntetic over and over and over and over and over again? Common sense... Yes this is common sense.

Zebb

Ehh, no. Mazda has the money to reserch this and im sure they have. Our neighbors (Norway) actually have a hydrogen Rx-8 they are testing right now. I think it was 1 out of 3 or something. This cost millions and millions of dollars so the money is no problem.

JHew84

iTrader: (9)

Yes, I do, because they haven't . Testing costs money, LOTS of money, especially with something like this. Between the man hours and the materials its just not worth it to a company (as its been pointed out) that is here to make money, not spend it. Mazda's thought process is probably along the lines of 'rotarys run fine with mineral oil, why even bother researching synthetic?'. Further more if mazda had done these expensive tests do you think they would be hiding it from us? Hell no, they would be posting up their results for the world to see, because that is what you do after expensive research projects. And if they had done conclusive testing do you think the wording they are using would be so vague? No chance in hell, if they had conclusive results on the subject there would be very detailed descriptions of why you should or should not use synthetics.

and again, the fact that many people are using synthetic oils without complication means nothing to you? isn't a 60K+ mile road test enough to sway your opinion the least little bit? Honestly i could care less whether or not you use mineral or synthetic, but the fact your trying to scare other people on the subject when you have no clue what your talking about is kind of lame.

Larz

You're fine. I've asked engine builders about this. The only syn oils that had ash content were made back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. The stuff you can pick up at an auto parts store (Royal Purple, Mobil 1, Valvoline) today do not have this problem. Rest easy and let this debate die. That way next month we can talk about it all over again.