Hurley Seals (CRAP)
12-08-02, 08:50 PM
#52
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Some interesting opinions in here.
Here are some hard facts with pictures...
My engine was pulled last week because it was a bit low on compression and was getting hard to start.
Only 1 corner seal was intact.
The results of the HME 3mm seals NOT breaking. My housings are cactus, but the pex seals are all 100% fully intact and show barely any signs of wear.
I have had 2 engines previously let go in a massive way. Both engines had 3mm HME seals. In both engines, the apex seals were fine and did not break. In fact, after my 1st engine let go, the seals were put back into the new engine! The seals were replaced the next go because they got marked as other bits came through the engine...
High HP issues? My engine made ewll over 500rwhp on them and ran 10.32 in my 1st gen RX7.
rxthree - if you or your engine builder doesn't check clearances prior to installation, then things like that occur. I have seen 2mm standard Mazda seals that have needed to be filed down to fit perfect. Or maybe thats just my engine builder.
Apex/Corner/Side seals are like ECUs, easy to blame but hard to 100% know were at fault. Solution? Change and hope for the best. If the new 'part' works, then it must have been the old parts fault.
Here are some hard facts with pictures...
My engine was pulled last week because it was a bit low on compression and was getting hard to start.
Only 1 corner seal was intact.
The results of the HME 3mm seals NOT breaking. My housings are cactus, but the pex seals are all 100% fully intact and show barely any signs of wear.
I have had 2 engines previously let go in a massive way. Both engines had 3mm HME seals. In both engines, the apex seals were fine and did not break. In fact, after my 1st engine let go, the seals were put back into the new engine! The seals were replaced the next go because they got marked as other bits came through the engine...
High HP issues? My engine made ewll over 500rwhp on them and ran 10.32 in my 1st gen RX7.
rxthree - if you or your engine builder doesn't check clearances prior to installation, then things like that occur. I have seen 2mm standard Mazda seals that have needed to be filed down to fit perfect. Or maybe thats just my engine builder.
Apex/Corner/Side seals are like ECUs, easy to blame but hard to 100% know were at fault. Solution? Change and hope for the best. If the new 'part' works, then it must have been the old parts fault.
12-09-02, 12:10 AM
#53
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RXTHREE: Damn, those side plates look nasty !!!
I've used the Hurley 3mm race seals for over 2-3 years and made over 500rwh w/them *but*I think something has changed....either manufacturer or raw material.
I've heard many, actually too many complaints with their seals....from engine builders to rx7 owners.
Originally, my only complaint was the markings and shatter it left on rotor housings after some time.
In the last year and a half they started breaking at the tips where it meets the corner piece and finally they would just let go(break) with detonation...simply under boost with plenty fuel(low 11's A/F) and low timing.
I heard the "bad batch" excuse too many times.
If their 3mm seals are failing then the 2mm are even worst!
As far as their corner seals and side seals......no experience but really don't see any reason NOT to use the stock ones....never had them fail.
AJC13B: when using those solid corner seals your 3mm rotor slots need to be cut perfectly straight w/ right clearances....3mm w/ rubber inserts allow more movement od the seal.
I've used the Hurley 3mm race seals for over 2-3 years and made over 500rwh w/them *but*I think something has changed....either manufacturer or raw material.
I've heard many, actually too many complaints with their seals....from engine builders to rx7 owners.
Originally, my only complaint was the markings and shatter it left on rotor housings after some time.
In the last year and a half they started breaking at the tips where it meets the corner piece and finally they would just let go(break) with detonation...simply under boost with plenty fuel(low 11's A/F) and low timing.
I heard the "bad batch" excuse too many times.
If their 3mm seals are failing then the 2mm are even worst!
As far as their corner seals and side seals......no experience but really don't see any reason NOT to use the stock ones....never had them fail.
AJC13B: when using those solid corner seals your 3mm rotor slots need to be cut perfectly straight w/ right clearances....3mm w/ rubber inserts allow more movement od the seal.
12-09-02, 03:20 AM
#54
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Steve. The seals were clearanced by a builder who puts between 4 and 5 motors a week together.
My issues aren't with the apex seals but the side seals.
They have scored the end plates so badly that the oil control rings would not seal.
The carbon steel in my opinion may be unbreakable but their mission statement should be replaced with the words unuseable. Have a close look and you will see that its the sides that have done the damage. I will be putting their apexs back in with the standard sides and corners and throwing the $730Aus Hurleys in the dunny. I'm a first time user and a last.How about you buy em off me half price and see what you think of em when your next one lets go. Only 1600 run in kms.
My issues aren't with the apex seals but the side seals.
They have scored the end plates so badly that the oil control rings would not seal.
The carbon steel in my opinion may be unbreakable but their mission statement should be replaced with the words unuseable. Have a close look and you will see that its the sides that have done the damage. I will be putting their apexs back in with the standard sides and corners and throwing the $730Aus Hurleys in the dunny. I'm a first time user and a last.How about you buy em off me half price and see what you think of em when your next one lets go. Only 1600 run in kms.
12-09-02, 03:38 AM
#55
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Steve, sorry to hear about your engine 
So you gonna come join me in some circuit racing now
I feel happy about being on the same block for 5 years, then again I suppose thats what you get when you don't rev it to 10000rpm
Seriously though, what casued the corner seals to break ? What bits are going to be reused in the build Steve. How many miles had you done on that latest engine ? And what are your plans now in terms of engine spec/power etc ?
So you gonna come join me in some circuit racing now
I feel happy about being on the same block for 5 years, then again I suppose thats what you get when you don't rev it to 10000rpm
Seriously though, what casued the corner seals to break ? What bits are going to be reused in the build Steve. How many miles had you done on that latest engine ? And what are your plans now in terms of engine spec/power etc ?
12-09-02, 05:06 AM
#56
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rxthree - Which part of my post did you not understand? Did you miss me saying I have had ZERO problems with HME seals?
And I don't really care how many engines your builder puts together a week. The fact is that he doesn't seem to have checked the clearances or the surfaces of the side seals when assembling your engine. If he had of, he would have noticed the the ill fit or the surface not being true. The damage in those pictures you showed would occur using standard Mazda bits as well if they weren't checked.
Rice - Meh, **** happens! The continous 10000rpm+ launches wouldn't have helped the situation at any point. The engine is 18 months old, but the 30 passes I have had in the last 6 months would have doubled or tripled the wear
The only bits being used again are the plates and shaft I think! Bill wants me to go back to standard Mazda 2mms to see the difference. Ironic I come out with that in this thread! lol
And I don't really care how many engines your builder puts together a week. The fact is that he doesn't seem to have checked the clearances or the surfaces of the side seals when assembling your engine. If he had of, he would have noticed the the ill fit or the surface not being true. The damage in those pictures you showed would occur using standard Mazda bits as well if they weren't checked.
Rice - Meh, **** happens! The continous 10000rpm+ launches wouldn't have helped the situation at any point. The engine is 18 months old, but the 30 passes I have had in the last 6 months would have doubled or tripled the wear
The only bits being used again are the plates and shaft I think! Bill wants me to go back to standard Mazda 2mms to see the difference. Ironic I come out with that in this thread! lol
12-09-02, 08:46 AM
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Yeah righto Steve,
I checked to rotors myself after dis assemble and they were fine.
It had SFA to to with the clearances and more to do with the quality of the product.
And after looking at your corner seals I would say the 3MMs are binding up in those to break em like that.
Thats why I would say Hurley bought out their own corner pin.
To try and stop the damage their own seals are causing.
I,ve seen plenty of 3MM mazda seals go and never seen a broken corner yet.
I would listen to your builder and go 2MM.
And tune it to perfection.
How many seals have gone through your TA45?
Must be gettin expensive!
I checked to rotors myself after dis assemble and they were fine.
It had SFA to to with the clearances and more to do with the quality of the product.
And after looking at your corner seals I would say the 3MMs are binding up in those to break em like that.
Thats why I would say Hurley bought out their own corner pin.
To try and stop the damage their own seals are causing.
I,ve seen plenty of 3MM mazda seals go and never seen a broken corner yet.
I would listen to your builder and go 2MM.
And tune it to perfection.
How many seals have gone through your TA45?
Must be gettin expensive!
12-14-02, 02:08 PM
#61
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Originally posted by ULTIMATERX7
I dont know how you guys do it, this is my third motor and it's driving me crazy, I almost sold the dam money pit! But g** dam it looks so good I just couldn't do it.
I dont know how you guys do it, this is my third motor and it's driving me crazy, I almost sold the dam money pit! But g** dam it looks so good I just couldn't do it.
Glad to hear you are hanging in there. I hope you are up and running soon. Let me know if there is anything I can do.
12-22-02, 07:29 AM
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My motors back together with standard sides and started first pop and is now sitting at 1000rpm with 17inches of vacuum. Plates were re laped and it sounds like it should. Dont use there crap in the sides. Lesson learned the hard way.
12-22-02, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by FEARED7
JUNK JUNK JUNK!!!!
I have never been so disapointed in the durability of the 2mm's. I built 6 engines with them and I will not build anymore with those sorry seals. How can you offer a product that won't take more than stock boost levels???? I don't understand. Eamon himself told me that they would work well in a high HP allplication. BULL CRAP!!! I wonder what his opinion of high HP is??? 200 hp??? I mean jeeez!
4 of 6 engines have low compression. I am now doing engines with OEM 2mm and 3mm seals and springs. NOTHING BETTER FOR THE PRICE!
I feel for KD b/c I heard they did 20 something engines and all of em failed but maybe 1 or 2 that were stock cars... That HAS to tell everyone something about Hurleys.
I made the mistake of putting them in my t2 that is going to spit em out when Steve Kan comes around christmas time!!!! I am looking forward to pulling the enigne.
I would like a payment from hurley for all the seals I bought from them, payment for customers headache for labor, payment for broken parts, and payment for new rebuild kits for all the engines along with OEM apex seals.
I am just frustrated with this crap b/c I warranty this bull ****. Excuse my language.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
JUNK JUNK JUNK!!!!
I have never been so disapointed in the durability of the 2mm's. I built 6 engines with them and I will not build anymore with those sorry seals. How can you offer a product that won't take more than stock boost levels???? I don't understand. Eamon himself told me that they would work well in a high HP allplication. BULL CRAP!!! I wonder what his opinion of high HP is??? 200 hp??? I mean jeeez!
4 of 6 engines have low compression. I am now doing engines with OEM 2mm and 3mm seals and springs. NOTHING BETTER FOR THE PRICE!
I feel for KD b/c I heard they did 20 something engines and all of em failed but maybe 1 or 2 that were stock cars... That HAS to tell everyone something about Hurleys.
I made the mistake of putting them in my t2 that is going to spit em out when Steve Kan comes around christmas time!!!! I am looking forward to pulling the enigne.
I would like a payment from hurley for all the seals I bought from them, payment for customers headache for labor, payment for broken parts, and payment for new rebuild kits for all the engines along with OEM apex seals.
I am just frustrated with this crap b/c I warranty this bull ****. Excuse my language.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
12-23-02, 04:43 AM
#64
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Im a member of the "Hurley screwed me over" club. My engine popped after only 3500 miles. Ill NEVER use those POS's again.
Luckily I got me engine done through a friend at an honest shop, BNR Supercars. This time I go with OEM seals!
Luckily I got me engine done through a friend at an honest shop, BNR Supercars. This time I go with OEM seals!
08-07-03, 03:40 PM
#65
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I decided to ressurect this thread so that others can learn of my experiences , please forgive me !!.
Well basically what happened is I broke two apex seals , these being the double spring racing HURLEYS , and I still cannot understand how. My a/f ratios were rich , 10.5 : 1 on pump gas (around 90 oct ) , max. advance at that boost (8 psi) was about 15deg , water injection from 5 psi boost , max. of 8 psi boost and a rev limit of 7000rpm. I mashed the gas and boosted for about 3 seconds then stopped in traffic , the idle dropped off then the car stalled after which it never restarted using the key , it would only start when "kicked" ,I checked the compression and all seemed well being 80 'ish on all three sides of both rotors but when idling I noticed a vacuum drop from 10" Hg to 5" Hg , so I went ahead and pulled the engine and found two broken seals , one each rotor .
I since then went back to stock 3 piece MAZDA and so far all's well , I personnaly believe the HURLEYS just cant cut it !!!.
Well basically what happened is I broke two apex seals , these being the double spring racing HURLEYS , and I still cannot understand how. My a/f ratios were rich , 10.5 : 1 on pump gas (around 90 oct ) , max. advance at that boost (8 psi) was about 15deg , water injection from 5 psi boost , max. of 8 psi boost and a rev limit of 7000rpm. I mashed the gas and boosted for about 3 seconds then stopped in traffic , the idle dropped off then the car stalled after which it never restarted using the key , it would only start when "kicked" ,I checked the compression and all seemed well being 80 'ish on all three sides of both rotors but when idling I noticed a vacuum drop from 10" Hg to 5" Hg , so I went ahead and pulled the engine and found two broken seals , one each rotor .
I since then went back to stock 3 piece MAZDA and so far all's well , I personnaly believe the HURLEYS just cant cut it !!!.
08-07-03, 04:30 PM
#66
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They're junk. Mazda seals are your best bang for the buck IMO. Anyone have any info on the Atkins 2 peice seals? I spoke with Boris Rojas at the Nopi event. He has the fastest 12A in the world. He runs low 8's with only 580rwhp. The car is a datsun and very light. Anyways, talking with him. He is running Atkins 2 peice seals and says he's had very good luck.
Anyone hear any stories about them?
Anyone hear any stories about them?
08-08-03, 03:57 PM
#67
Originally posted by Resource
Anyone have any info on the Atkins 2 peice seals? I spoke with Boris Rojas at the Nopi event. He has the fastest 12A in the world. He runs low 8's with only 580rwhp. The car is a datsun and very light. Anyways, talking with him. He is running Atkins 2 peice seals and says he's had very good luck.
Anyone have any info on the Atkins 2 peice seals? I spoke with Boris Rojas at the Nopi event. He has the fastest 12A in the world. He runs low 8's with only 580rwhp. The car is a datsun and very light. Anyways, talking with him. He is running Atkins 2 peice seals and says he's had very good luck.
" Not a chance.
Just had a REAL bad experience with Atkins. Seems the metal used (at least in their 3mms) has a coefficient of expansion higher than stock. Translated that means that when you have properly milled your rotors to low spec. (closer to the tight side than the sloppy side) the seals will seize once they get hot. 2 rebuilds later and a couple of phone calls revealed that info. No offers of help from Atkins with either new seals or parts, just blame for not having the rotors milled by Atkins.
While I have no independent experience with Hurley, I gotta say I have heard nothing to recommend them at all except for their own claims of superiority.
In a perfect world with unlimited $$$$$....... Iannetti seals with perfected ceramic coated housings.
Until then......MAZDA or Rotary Performance"
08-08-03, 04:03 PM
#68
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Originally posted by es
Resource, read through this thread again & you will find jef48 response to Scalliwags same question:
" Not a chance.
Just had a REAL bad experience with Atkins. Seems the metal used (at least in their 3mms) has a coefficient of expansion higher than stock. Translated that means that when you have properly milled your rotors to low spec. (closer to the tight side than the sloppy side) the seals will seize once they get hot. 2 rebuilds later and a couple of phone calls revealed that info. No offers of help from Atkins with either new seals or parts, just blame for not having the rotors milled by Atkins.
While I have no independent experience with Hurley, I gotta say I have heard nothing to recommend them at all except for their own claims of superiority.
In a perfect world with unlimited $$$$$....... Iannetti seals with perfected ceramic coated housings.
Until then......MAZDA or Rotary Performance"
Resource, read through this thread again & you will find jef48 response to Scalliwags same question:
" Not a chance.
Just had a REAL bad experience with Atkins. Seems the metal used (at least in their 3mms) has a coefficient of expansion higher than stock. Translated that means that when you have properly milled your rotors to low spec. (closer to the tight side than the sloppy side) the seals will seize once they get hot. 2 rebuilds later and a couple of phone calls revealed that info. No offers of help from Atkins with either new seals or parts, just blame for not having the rotors milled by Atkins.
While I have no independent experience with Hurley, I gotta say I have heard nothing to recommend them at all except for their own claims of superiority.
In a perfect world with unlimited $$$$$....... Iannetti seals with perfected ceramic coated housings.
Until then......MAZDA or Rotary Performance"
08-08-03, 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Marcel Burkett
I decided to ressurect this thread so that others can learn of my experiences , please forgive me !!.
Well basically what happened is I broke two apex seals , these being the double spring racing HURLEYS , and I still cannot understand how. My a/f ratios were rich , 10.5 : 1 on pump gas (around 90 oct ) , max. advance at that boost (8 psi) was about 15deg , water injection from 5 psi boost , max. of 8 psi boost and a rev limit of 7000rpm. I mashed the gas and boosted for about 3 seconds then stopped in traffic , the idle dropped off then the car stalled after which it never restarted using the key , it would only start when "kicked" ,I checked the compression and all seemed well being 80 'ish on all three sides of both rotors but when idling I noticed a vacuum drop from 10" Hg to 5" Hg , so I went ahead and pulled the engine and found two broken seals , one each rotor .
I since then went back to stock 3 piece MAZDA and so far all's well , I personnaly believe the HURLEYS just cant cut it !!!.
I decided to ressurect this thread so that others can learn of my experiences , please forgive me !!.
Well basically what happened is I broke two apex seals , these being the double spring racing HURLEYS , and I still cannot understand how. My a/f ratios were rich , 10.5 : 1 on pump gas (around 90 oct ) , max. advance at that boost (8 psi) was about 15deg , water injection from 5 psi boost , max. of 8 psi boost and a rev limit of 7000rpm. I mashed the gas and boosted for about 3 seconds then stopped in traffic , the idle dropped off then the car stalled after which it never restarted using the key , it would only start when "kicked" ,I checked the compression and all seemed well being 80 'ish on all three sides of both rotors but when idling I noticed a vacuum drop from 10" Hg to 5" Hg , so I went ahead and pulled the engine and found two broken seals , one each rotor .
I since then went back to stock 3 piece MAZDA and so far all's well , I personnaly believe the HURLEYS just cant cut it !!!.
Pulled it down, and it had broken the Mazda solid corner seals and the Mazda side seal either side of that. I figure the seal expanded enough to split the corner seals. I was generous in the clearances (or so I thought). I actually spent many hours sanding sown the Hurley seals to give higher clearance. Guess it still wasn't enough.
Fortunately, the only damage was to the rotors. Only minor marking of the housings.
Back to the stock Mazda seals for me.
Gary
New Zealand.
08-12-03, 09:17 PM
#74
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Well..its true...not sure if he's still using them since I don't race with them anymore but there're alot of things that works on his car and doesn't work on mine....hurley seals, Jacob's ignition...etc...
Originally posted by Resource
bs
bs
08-13-03, 04:58 AM
#75
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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I'm pretty sure that Ari used to use 3mm Hurleys. Not sure if he still does.
It makes sense--if the motor blows, you're just looking at removal, teardown, new apex seals, put her back together, and drop her back in. Pretty damn cost effective if you're doing the work yourself.......
It makes sense--if the motor blows, you're just looking at removal, teardown, new apex seals, put her back together, and drop her back in. Pretty damn cost effective if you're doing the work yourself.......