javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Has anybody used their 3mm and 2mm 2 piece apex seals? Just wondering their price aren't bad and the longer end piece of the apex seal sounds good. Just wondering how strong are these apex seals and if its worth buying them? Anybody? Also about their 3mm milling, has anybody dealt with them. Any info would be appreciated

Resource

I've heard only horrible things about them.

chuck8313BTSDS

I have Atkins 2mm 2 pc. steal. They have gone through two motors now, running good on the third one. First two motors had a boost problem and cracked the rear housings. Detonation or to much boost??? All I can say the boost was over 25psi on stock N/A motors and the seals did not fail. They are holding up to 17psi with 9.4 -1 rotors.
The longer end peice makes it easy to rebuild.

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Resource, what have you heard about them?

Judge Ito

I buy Atkins apex seals set's by the dozen. I use them mostly on drag racing N/A nitrous engines. I build alot of engines. We ran the entire drag racing season on the Atkins seals. This was on a bridgeport n/a 200hp N20 shot every single run. I like the two piece 2mm apex seal, with the bigger tip. It allows me to use them with a pretty decent sized bridgeported engine. If we are going to compare apex seals, this is the order I like and the order I have seen work the best for turbo engines. Mazda stock apex seals #1 Atkins #2 hurleys #3 (ceramics work very well and every engine builder knows that but cost is a factor) Atkins apex seals work really good for the cost of them. I have seen some people have some problems with the seals warping, some people quikly like to blame the seals, but later find out they were way off in tunning. I personally recommend the seals they work great. Just clearance your apex seal to rotor groove and apex seal to side housing and rotor housing. Tune rich and start to lean a little and you will have nothing but pleasure from this seals.. my 2 c's forgot to add engine timing. Make sure your leading and trailing are right on point and not way over in timing advance..

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the info, was thinking of ordering their 2mm 2piece design, oh, are they are single or dual spring setup? Also, anybody tried Mazdatrix design and does anybody know of a 2mm solid corner piece without the rubber insert? I saw them in a website one time but I forget who's was it.

Resource

I have a friend that went through 4 sets in 3 months.

That's what I've hear about them.

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

But was the apex seals or bad tuning? Bad tuning can ruin apex seals even if they are good or bad.

jeff48

Maybe I can clear this up.

It was the seal that caused the problem---the engine never ran long enough for the tuning to ever be a factor.

My experience with 3mm Atkins has been horrible. Their latest offerings seized. When my builder questioned Atkins about it he was told that since he had not let them machine the rotors, the seizures were his fault for not spec'ing them correctly. In fact, the builder had the rotors properly spec'd (to the narrow side of spec) by an extremely competent machinist (simply the most professional job I had ever seen). My builder later discovered that Atkins had not told him that the metal in the seals did not have the same expansion rate as stock or other readily available seals (Atkins seals would then expand faster and farther than stock or equivalent when warmed up). In other words--warm up the engine on a low slop spec'd rotor----->Seize the seals.

No more Atkins for me.

Maybe they work great with middle or sloppy tolerances, but do not attempt to use them with a professionally toleranced set of rotors.

BTW I still swear by Mazda seals. (Until I can afford ceramics).

Judge Ito

they use the mazda factory apex seals inner and outter springs..

Judge Ito

This is correct not only from Atkins but also from hurleys. The metal on this seals do not have the final hardening stage that mazda puts on their seals. My first engine on hurleys I had expansion problems. For me it was very simple I studied the problem and clearance my engine .001 a little bit more on the apex seal to rotor groove and .0015 apex seal to side housing clearance. I just added that much more clearance to the clearance I was already using before I started using this seals. I stopped using the hurleys and started using the Atkins and carefully assembled every engine with that in mind the metal expansion. after all extra clearance was done I have had great results with the atkin seals. If people are under the impression that they are better then stock seals they are wrong. But if you take your time and build your engine with a little extra clearance this seals really get the job done..

Judge Ito

I want everybody to keep in mind my opinion is based on a comparison of apex seals.
1)Racing Beat Carbon seals.
2) hurleys apex seals
3) Atkins apex seals
4 ) mazda stock seals
If Mazda would make a 2 piece 2mm apex seals with a big apex seal tip I would always use the mazda factory 2mm seal for BP engines. But they don't so I have found a way to use what I see works best in comparison to the other 3 seals available for N/A bridgeported engines. and that is extra clearance Atkins apex seals. For all of my street ported turbo engines I used nothing but mazda stock 2mm 3 piece apex seals..

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Damn, I guess I will go with mazda stock 2mm, was just trying to use something different. From what Atkins writes in their website, they say the are stronger, but I guess they are not

jeff48

Without discussion of the good Judge's choice of mm sizes all I can say is Amen to his posts and I, for one, am impressed with his personal analysis and resolution for the engine failures he experienced. When I say I will never use Atkins seals, I mean it and I would not reccomend them to anyone. However, I am not saying that they may not hold up under use, but I am saying that any company that is unwilling to advise their customers that the product has different properties than the customer is expecting is not a company that I will recommend or do business with. A company should tell you what you need to know to have success with their product----Atkins does not do that.

In addition to their failure to be good business people, I have heard of more instances of Atkins failures than any other brand.

But in Atkins defense, if you believe that they use their commercially available stuff in their own engines, they must be pretty confident in the seals to sell them to people who want to use them in airplanes and helicopters!

Rant mode off!!

fdracer

what material is the atkins seal made of?

jeff48

I don't know what Atkins uses for seal material, but I was told that their new seal material is different from what they sold a year or so ago.

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

So are their new apex seal material better than what they used about a year ago?

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

I just figure out what I was gonna used, Talked to some shop that's very repuatable and told me that he has 3 sets of 3mm and wants to get rid of them below that he got. He doesn't want them

spartiatis

http://www.mazdacomp.com/apexseals.html

has anyone ever used their 2piece apex seals?
they promise 50% more strengh from mazda's.
they also offer solid corner seals.

javrosario

iTrader: (5)

Hrm, Anybody know about this ones? Wouldn't mind getting this ones.

playero

iTrader: (1)

I just purchased a 7" supercharger from Atkins and they recomended ther two piece seal, so I also got them. After reading this I wonder if I should use them. I have a 13B 4 port J ported that this set up is going into. I also have the RB carbon seals. Which ones shoul I use for the engine? It have '91 rotors and e-shaft with all new seals and rotor housings. Some advice from experienced people will be appreciated, thanks.

Judge Ito

You have to keep in mind that the seals will expand. If you read my post, you will see I reccomend Atkins Apex seals for n/a engines but you really need to check your clearance properly and they will work. Atkins does not advise there customers about this(metal expansion) more expansion then stock seals. I'm not sure why they don't just explaine to customers about this.