BNA_ELLIS

Does anyone know anyone else running these seals?
Info below is taken from the Rotormaster website.

Rice please chime in as I know you have tested a lot of the seals out there.


The Team at Rotor Master are well equipped in the servicing of hi-performance applications geared specifically for race vehicles. A culmination of the team’s own design and manufacture as well as their ability to source appropriate hi-performance internals - ensures you will be well accomodated with all hi-performance engine internal requirements.

Examples of various specific hi-performance internals include:


Competition Nichol/Titanium Race Apex Seals:

Tested and proven by leading Australian and International Pro-Drag race teams, Rotor Master’s designed and developed 2-piece 2 & 3mm Ceramic Apex Seals are now exclusively available for all hi-boost & nitrous applications, proven to with-stand up to 40 + Pound Boost GUARANTEED!

Thoroughly researched to ensure product durability, the seals are fabricated using the highest grade Nichol/Titanium material available, ensuring confidence in this engine component, as used by the Rotor Master team on their signature race cars & some of the best Race cars both Nationally & Internationally.

COMPETITION SEALS COME COMPLETE WITH A FULL MONEY BACK GUAREANTEE - if you are not 100% happy with the product.

Suitable for:

>>> Standard Street Driving (Exceeding Life Span of Engine)
>>> Endurance/Circuit Racing
>>> Drag Racing

The Nichol/Titanium Benefits:

>>> Highest Strength Material (exceeding other materials in thermal shock resistance) with guaranteed Seal Composure Under Extreme Race Conditions (without warping).


rgds

Brian

RICE RACING

100% bullshit

that *alloy mentioned* is not even used in that application and is in NO WAY SUITABLE for apex seals LOL, go look it up and tell us what you find out

The used to have a lower grade silicone nitride seal that *looked like* Svens black material (low cost offering) along with very shitty machining of top radius and also a steel assist piece.

Most of the **** on the market that looks like steel is indeed steel, not to be confused with quality proven ceramic materials as offer by NRS and Ianetti.

as they say dont believe the hype

All ferrous based materials and alloys of them are vastly inferior to the technology used for decades by professionals be they Mazdaspeed or the aftermarket sources...... the proliferation of garbage *indestrucable* apex seals is to suit the lower skill base of users which sadly accounts for a big majority of incompetent end users and thier shops of choice.

Once people stop ******* their motors due to this negligence then nothing on this planet comes close to the results you will get with a product like NRS or Ianetti, from using both and supplying them its a no brainer for me.

BNA_ELLIS

Cheers Rice, I looked it up and nickel titanium has a low yield strength comapred to the strongest steels,a nd most importantly it's far to elastics and cannot maintain it's shape once heated especially above 500 oC.

rgds

Brian

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Rice I don't think it's more or less people using the cheaper product cause they think it's better. It's mostly about budget. Not every one is willing to drop over a grand for some ceramics. Personally after all these years I struggle to understand why they still cost so damn much.

RICE RACING

That is another load of BS,

Nothing is better than an advanced ceramic, I have been in mechanical engineering since 1995 and its the same in the bearing industry, lots of ********* (not saying your one) back then talked **** about silicone nitride and not being able to justify it blah blah and not understanding the costs... when i sat in on a major manufactures (NSK & Koyo) talks given to us about it then you truely do realize how inferior ferrous metals are and also why ceramics cost so much to produce to a finished state. You realy need to be involved in this to comprehend it on every level from material specifiction/performance to manufacturing costs.

The price for current ceramic like NRS that is proven beyond any doubts to be the best available and is CHEAP compared to the absolute bullshit (by comparison) aftermarket ferrous materials that go for about 3/4's of the asking price.

its very insulting to compare any of that garbage to cermaics, they only satisfy two goals, slightly lower price and tollerance to stupidity and lack of skill of operators.


* You either buy hype OR you buy quality, move with the times and use the best technology all others realy are still in the iron age while we have moved on to the space age.

now

iTrader: (1)

yes if you want ceramics get some of the NRS seals they are the real thing
the price is right, and the ones i have been running are standing up great!

matt

iceblue

Thank you RICE. I spend several hours of my day every day trying to explain just this to customers just to have them get an attitude at me for not compromising my build quality to suit internet garbage. All the shops playing follow the leader on after market seals. I personally feel builders like you do a service to the community and just get **** on by incompetence.

Sadly the best I am able to offer these people is OEM cryogenic seals at bare minimum or spend the money for Ianetti. They tend to be offended when you refuse to use some other shop supplied seals for them.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Don't get me wrong I'm talking about the price of ceramics in general. Lets get somethings clear, I have absolutely nothing against the NRS seals. I just feel for the average JOE's these seals are unobtainable for average use (average being daily driven moderately hp rotary's and their budgets). It's no question they have proven themselves to hold up under stressful conditions (high hp drag). Personally I would love to buy something like these.


You said..... "You realy need to be involved in this to comprehend it on every level from material specifiction/performance to manufacturing costs.'' I don't doubt any of that but realistically you can't expect average consumers to look at it from that point of view. All they will see is the bottom line (the cost difference). Truthfully I'm comparing these with the factory seals. In know that's apple to oranges comparison but I'm mostly talking about seal longevity. I still can't justify paying 4 times the amount for ceramics when the stockers are proven to last over 100k miles. Now if my hopes were to build a 500hp beast that's capable of lasting over 100k, then I easily see the justification.

RICE RACING

Look, I use them becasue the stock one may last 100k but the housings are trash (grooved) the seals are fucked (worn out) and the rotor slots are hammered as well the ceramics are much kinder to all involved and they can and are in the majority of cases reused

If your in it for the long haul and want quality the COST is actualy better long term with ceramics.... much better, let alone factoring in the performance gains.

Its how much vision you have and planing, if your after a short term throw away item then ceramics are not for you period. I have customers here who use ceramics and all related parts for multiple rebuilds over many different seasons of racing, I have road car users who keep reusing seals and other major parts as well. You cant compare the two (steel v's ceramic) in durability, there is no comparisons and in costs (anything but initial purchase) there is no grounds for comparisons either, the ceramics win every time.

This is all shown to great effect in the NRS thread, so I will leave this brief reply at that.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Good explanation!

karism

Nichol/Titanium?

Wow,what a bunch of crap.

Do a search about Titanium Apex Seals.Myself and a friend tried it some 4 years ago.

Go with proper Ceramic ,or stay with Mazda.

Karis