How long ago did they lift the 280hp limit? I just left Japan 6 weeks ago and hadn't heard anything like that......

-Destin

 

From what I understand Mazda and other manufacturers couldn't advertise anything more than the 280 figure even though many cars (including the cosmo) made more than that.

 

Re: 20b, keep in mind how restricted the FDs are stock. A few mods and you are up around 300rwhp. Add 50% to that for the extra rotor and you're looking at 450rwhp. Doesnt sound to shabby to me

 

IIRC it was fianly broken by honda within the last year when it stated (accurately) the hp for its JDM acura TL equivalent at 300 something.

it doesnt realy change anything, other than that the japs arent lying to themselfes now. lol

 

I agree with Kahren.

Stay rotary...or go buy that bus with the 2jz! 1

 

HinsonSupercars.com

check out their website for your Ls1 conversion.

 

yes ... it's probably best you don't get one.

 

I've got 55,000 miles on my 20B. The motor is like an anvil--you can't break it (unless you let it overheat). As long as the installation is done right, reliability of the motor should not be an issue.

I'm using a T-II gearbox and rear end with no problems. However, I don't do drag racing, so YMMV.

 

Ok the 2JZGTE is a heavy, tall, and long engine. It's also a very capable powerplant, but you may sacrifice some drivability. I've also heard you run into clearance issues. The 20B is a compact, but still heavy and still a rotary which means you are still going to have your rotary related problems. The only difference is that the parts will be much more expensive. The LS1 is lighter than the 20B, and it's also cheaper. Stock LS1 FDs weigh in at 2800lbs with full interiors and systems. Good luck getting this figure with a 20B or 2JZGTE without doing some sort of weight reduction. Also, the LS1 will get better gas mileage, be more reliable, be cheaper to maintain, handle better, give you 6 speeds, ect. There is no downside.

I think a realy fun swap would be a CA18DET in a 1st-gen! And make it LIGHT!

 

Stock 13B's displacement is EFFECTIVELY 2.6 liters. Putting a 1.8L in there would be shooting yourself in the foot,

LS1 swap sounds good in basically every way, as much as the rotor heads here would disagree.

 

i think the LS1 swap is dumb, im not a rotorhead i do prefer piston but american engine into a import is dumb... ive been looking at the rb26dett alot for the past few weeks learning about the engine and all that. possible swap? heavy but all the power ill put out will make up for that, handling might be bad tho- whats your guy's thoughts on this?

 

The stock engine is a 2.6 liter! The only gain is you'd be less likely to damage it when knocking. And, a RB26DETT is a inline 6 - Its long and heavy.

The "domestic into import is dumb" arguement is dumb, sorry. An engine is an engine is an engine, no matter if its american, jap, german, or martian. Furthermore, LS engines are very, very good, period, unless youre going to be a bigot about where its sourced from. Its light, very compact for its displacement, has tons of potential, and right out of the box can make a RX-7 a world class performer... without changing the handling, weight, or balance of the car, at all.

So, my thoughts? Get a *cheaper* (especially for parts and such) LS1/2/6/7 engine, which weighs less, makes more power, and will always make more power, or just stick with your stock rotary engine and get the turbos working with the right supporting mods.

Or, by all means, swap in a longer, heavier engine and end up with the same displacement you started with. Its your money.

 

maybe i am wronge, i have been a few times, but i belive the rb26-even tho the same deplacement- will be a much faster engine then a rotory for the money. a engine may be a engine, but when you can a mazda and open the hood all you see is big white letters chevy. i think this is dumb. once again, i maybe wronge but i dont think i am?

 

It's made in Canada if it makes you feel any better.

 

don't start that **** up again, the 1.3 vs. 2.6 debate. it's been beaten to death so many times it's not funny.

 

As far as the turbo cares, its a 2.6 liter. Go do the math yourself. Piston engines only get their rated displacement in two crank revolutions. The rating of a mazda engine is per just one crank revolution. While it makes sense from the standpoint of a rotary because of how they work, the power output is more like a 2.6 liter when you look at the amount of air moved and exhaust gas flow.

Dont believe me? do the math yourself, lol!

Anyway, the reason I said that is a RB26DETT (which happens to have the same displacement) is also bigger, heavier, and longer! Hes not going to get any advantage out of it except for being more resilient to knock.

 

Personally I could justify running a 20B unless I had definative plans of running over 500rwhp. And then only because that would be stressing the engine nearly a third less than a 2 rotor. It would seem like 600hp on a 3 rotor would produce the same stress on the motor as about 400hp in a 2 rotor. (I should probably be pointing out torque number rather than hp tho)

 

Actually I thought this to be true as well, but its not the case. I have two local friends that have Supras, both are putting down 840's rwhp. Both are have a hell of a time keeping the stock 6pd. togeather and they don't speed shift!

 

13Beast REW - 500 whp from a LS1 is easy as pie, and even more reliable!

 

More reliable than what? A 13B? I throw up the BS flag there. Making a 500hp 13B reliable is easy. I know, Iv'e done it. And with a bone stock motor too. Do that with your LS1!

 

Well... what I was actually shooting at was longevity. I haven't done so I can't speak definatively on it but I can't see 80 or even 60,000 miles on a 500hp 13B. I could imagine 50 to 70,000 on a 20B.

 

My street-ported/polished 20B does 480+ RHP @ only 11psi with a T-74 GTS not even really spinning yet! Around 15psi is 600+. And btw torque is right up in the same ball park as the HP just slightly less if I remember right. People that have riden in my, even at SevenStock, their first comment is the torque pull. It isnt a 13B baby!

Also the 20B is very reliable. I can go in the garage and start it up, back out of the driveway, turn on the AC full past and drive it anywhere I want except past the gas station!

 

Originally Posted by ErnieT
"More reliable than what? A 13B? I throw up the BS flag there. Making a 500hp 13B reliable is easy. I know, Iv'e done it. And with a bone stock motor too. Do that with your LS1!"

Dude, youre getting that 500 hp with a turbo! A Turbo LS1 can hit over a thousand, and I'd LOVE to see you bust out a PP 13B and hit 500 hp reliably if you wanna go N/A!

An LS1 can hit 500 rwhp N/A pretty easily - change out the cam! N/A is generally going to be more reliable than a turbo, ESPECIALLY if its a rotary. You knock and your apex seals can go out. Piston engines can take knock a little easier. I'm not here to bash rotaries, I'm just being realistic.

Also, you seem not to know, or care to know, a whole lot about LS series v8s. No offence, but I do sense a ton of bigotry on this forum against "v8s" (like that makes sense at all...) or domestics. The RX-7 is the best bang for a buck, and the most rounded (except for reliability) I could possible conceive, which is why I like them. However, I'm not going to get deluded into thinking badly of something JUST because GM made it!

Without even taking the price into account, which is nice and low, a FD has the best chassis I can think of, except for exotics and tube-chassis race one-offs. The 13B-REW is a great rotary engine, but you need supporting modifications and fancy electronics to keep it from grenading when you get on boost. I had a friend who ran his turbo 944 knocking so loud he could hear it, and all he did was blow a head gasket. Try that with a rotary engine, and be sure you have 5K in savings for the result. One of the first mods I'm going to do to my FD when I get one is a surge tank, becuase I dont want to blow out my seals taking a hard turn.

No, I'm not trying to knock rotaries here (no pun intended) and I'm sure the 20B is going to be more reliable @ the same power as a 13B (lower BMEP), but its going to add weight and complexity. Isnt the Eccentric shaft two part by necessity? How do you get ignition stuff for it? Does it use the same parts as a 13B? (Rotors, seals, housings, etc)

Now, try getting parts for a LS1. MUCH easier. Much more people know how to work on it. And, with more displacement, at the smame power as a 13B or 20B its going to be more reliable, plus the design is inherantly more knock resistant. There is also a litany of ways a v8 is easier to work on internally vs a rotary, like I change the "porting" with a SINGLE camshaft, maybe some different ratio rocker arms, etc, until I have to get into head porting, but I can do that without pulling the engine! I can stroke it out with a kit, I have DOMESTIC aftermarket support, and IIRC it weighs less than a 20B.

BTW, have you seen that thread with the guy in the SCC street car challenge? its TAIL heavy with the LS1/T56 swap, and pulled over a G on the skidpad both ways, and its different turning left vs right so its obviously not as tuned as it could be. So, you tell me, whats so bad about LS engines?

 

Yes I'll admit that the 2JZ and an LS1 motor will make more power and be more reliable than my rotary. But will I switch? Hell no I won't! It's all about preference I like all sorts of engines but I'm loyal to the rotary engine. Those who say they are unreliable and blow up don't have the patience and experience with rotarys. Yes they are finicky motors but if you know what your doing and take the time and spend the money to build them correctly and tune them properly they are just like any other engine and can be made reliable. Yes I can make a reliable 500rwhp, more like 580rwhp, and I'm only pushing 1900lbs and that's with me in it. Nihilanthic what's your car weigh and what kind of horsepower are you making with your LS1? That's if you even have one. Sorry a rotary has it's place and it's not in a 3800lb car. Put a rotary in something light and nimble and you will be tearing things up. People always forget power to weight ratio. I drag race and that's all I think about not just making horsepower but how to get my car the lightest and how I get that power to the ground. Sorry I'm a rotary fanatic you can have your LS1's and 2JZ I'll stick with what I know. And I love racing V8's especially when they get beat and ask what I have and I tell them it's only 1.3L. Which it isn't, actually 3.9L, but they don't know the difference.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself !!