Scrapiron7

MARTIN

you want to explain how torque wins races??

MARTIN

Funny, untill you realize that right from the lot, they are faster than 75% of the cars here...
BEsides, I dont like them, if not I would've bought one..

Scrapiron7

I never said it alone wins races, common sense says they work together. You act as though torque has no bearing on performace at all.

In extremely simplified mechanics, Horsepower determines how fast a vehicle can travel; Torque determines how quickly that speed can be reached.

Henessey

well i dont know...but dont you drive a honda? what the hell do you know about torque? how would you know with 110 wheel torque? And even then isnt that peak hp and torque at ~5500rpms? in the rpms before 5500 dont you have virtually ZERO torque and hp?Dont educate me about somthing you dont even own... torque.Please. go wheel hop and torque steer yourself back to Vtak tunerz yo.com.

93rx74lyfe

iTrader: (1)

HE OWNS A HONDA??? that explains it all!

MARTIN

Lol... I was building,racing, tuning rotary cars way before I even knew how vtec works... Yea I own a honda, I also own a turbo vert that im sure has put down more power than that cute vr4 there.... I can educate you on it, because obviously you dont know ****.

rolandofeld

wheelhop torque steer vtak yo +1134

BlkS5TII

Everyone is somewhat right. Torque matters because hp is a product of torque. Cars that have longer strokes have better torque because of the better leverage from the crank. Small displacement engines that want high hp need to rev higher in order to move enough air to create that power, but then they have to sacrifice stroke(torque) to maintain decent piston speeds. Hp/weight is a better measurement of a cars performance since torque can be made up for with proper gearing, and getting around a high rpm powerband can be solved with a proper launch.

I will never excuse FWD though.
Wheel hop and torque steer FTW!

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html <--- If your brains can handle the math then click.

Henessey

Thanks... i guess since in the past 3 weeks alone at the shop ive driven a Silver c6 z06, Red c5 z06,A turbo 5.0 And a black SRT10. No, i know nothing about torque. If you did know anything about torque then you would never tune a honda. end of discussion. If you really want pictures just say so, ill post them up.

Now anyhow back on topic...

MARTIN

What does driving a car contribute to your knowledge on the matter? How are you going to accuse a honda of not having torque, when a rotary is the same ****...

93rx74lyfe

iTrader: (1)

no, no,no hondas are for children. you cant start with crap and make it into something great. the cars are ment to be A to B cars nothing more. the 7 on the other hand is a super car and should never be compared to things like that. anyone with REAL knowledge of cars would know that. and no im not bias, ive driven every honda ever worth talking about civic, integra gsr/type r, and the nsx and know that NONE of them are worth putting the time and money into making fast. sorry to say it thats just how it is.

MARTIN

LOl and why is that? The rotary motor is inefficient, to start off... The only advantage I see from the rotary point of view, is the fact that it is rwd and turbo... But even then, stock and stock the s2k has the same, if not better, performance than an fd, and its N/A... There are as many hondas as rx7's, if not more, in the 9-10 sec range... Plus most of them trap 150+, even had matt keller trap 167 on a 2.4l honda motor with off the shelf cams.. So all that talk about hondas are for children, is really immature.. I have loved rx7's since the very begining, it was my first car. And is the only car that I know up and down... But ****, everytime I come in here, I find myself with retarded *** people....

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

I can barely see shiets!

Henessey

Look i think you dont see me eye to eye. Im never doubting that some honda can go trap 140mph+. But in MY opinion its not worth the effort. At least a rotary is rwd... fwd+no torque=sell the car. The srt4 on the other hand actually has torque... and alot of it actually. Were way off topic so ill quit if you will.

BlkS5TII

Did nobody read the article I posted? It was written by a rotary lover and uses RX7's as most of the examples. Torque by itself is a useless number. If torque was all that mattered I'd take a craftsman power drill that makes 300lb-ft and stick it under my hood. There's a reason why torqueless Hondas can still be fast.

My S2k makes ~240hp and a measly 150lb-ft and a 2001 Mustang GT makes 260hp with a whopping 300lb-ft, but both cars run high 13's @ ~100mph in a 1/4 mile. They are nearly equal in performance yet the Mustang has double the torque. You might say it's because the Mustang weighs 500lbs more and that would be correct, but if torque gives such an advantage then why would it matter? Hp/weight is what matters, so to say a car is worthless to tune because it doesn't have torque is just a rediculous thing to say.

Torque is nice, but when they slapped a ton of it into a FWD car as in the SRT4 they made a mistake.

MARTIN

Finally I agree with you... I been saying it all along...

peachykeenwight

Martin, I'm not trying to be a ***** and jump in to an already lame argument, but you're dumb.

You're accusing people who are disagreeing with you of being retarded when you're the guy who came into this thread and disagreed with the general concensus just for arguing's sake?

The truth is quite simple: Neons, regardless of what type of induction they may have, are pieces of **** from the beginning.

Also, have you ever raced or been in a Lightning? They are scary fast for what they are... the fastest Lightning I've ever personally seen puts the fastest Neon I've seen to shame.

PS: Good comparison between the S2K and the FD. I'm sure it's humbling for FD owners to know that their 10+ year old car is a competitor to a brand new sports car.

White94RX

Last time I checked, if you turbo'd a pile of ****, it's still a pile of **** right?

IT'S STILL A FREAKING DODGE NEON!!! Econobox piece of ****!!! Anything Dodge or Chrysler makes is a piece of **** anyway.

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

There probably are as many hondas as FD's in the 9-10sec range... But how many run 11's and 12's on a regular basis and then drive the owner to work the next day? Hondas CAN be pretty fast, I wouldnt argue with that... BUT MOST of them are doing good to break into the 14's... The S2K is a nice car, but it wont run stock for stock with an FD. I know b/c I looked at buying one before I purchased my FD and was left wanting after the test drive. Most of this really is a stupid arguement b/c we are comparing very different types of cars. The FD is so different from both the SRT4 and every honda (w/ the exception of the nsx). I am not saying this b/c I own one, but I am saying this b/c I can take a step back and look at what each car really is. FD was designed to race, mostly ciruit races. The SRT4 was built for quick speed and at an economy price. I think they did a good job, but they are not built very well. Hondas are built with quickness in mind but mostly as a daily driving commuter car. There just happens to be a big aftermarket following to make them a little bit quicker. To get most hondas into the 12's you are talking about major work... motor swaps, cams, heads, tubos' ect. Depends on how they wish to try and get there as to how they build the honda motor. Yeah I have seen N/A hondas run a 10 in the 1320... But that is a waaay built motor in a totally dedicated drag car. Sure, my FD only runs 12's... But I would race any honda that runs 10's on an autocross track any day... You have some good points that I agree with, but at the end of the day they are all just different cars for different purposes...

MARTIN

if you people are "smart" then I prefer to be dumb...

Im accusing people of being retarded because they are... The dodge neon might be a an econobox, but it holds its own against the "big boys" like yourselves... LOL, yea sorry had to laugh a bit...

Yea, you are right... but they are still quick pieces of ****, that have the ability to become faster rather cheap...

And yea I have... Nice trucks, but heavy and auto...

Yea I agree. The rx7's are very well built cars, thats why my heart is with them.. But that doesnt mean its right for you guys to put down other makes and models because you feel you are superior...

93rx74lyfe

iTrader: (1)

^^why even try to reason with the unwilling......the video was posted up on here for the enjoyment of other rotary owners. if you didnt like it than thats fine, but no one cares to read all of this nonsense you continue to post. we all have a great deal of respect for the 7 and thats all there is to it, nothing you say can change that. so if your done wasting everyones time, could you please go hijack another thread?

Scrapiron7

There, this thread was missing something!

BlouZbee

iTrader: (7)

cool video.

if i had to choose 1 car i dislike more than any other, it would be the srt4. of all the points brought up, the one i agree with the most is, its the driver that helps create the image perceived about the car.

example....my daily driver is a lightly modded, squeaky clean black rsx-s. i was coming home from work one day and had just gone though an intersection so traffic was heavy and slow both ways. in the oncoming lane a srt4 driver whom i never seen before SPITS on my car????? SPITS!!, i mean really??

stereotyping isn't fare, but most of the time its true. its a kids car and i dont like'm. plus there is NO such thing as a front wheel drive sports car.

BlkS5TII

You'd be surprised how many people boost their Civics to 12 second 1/4 mile times and then drive them daily. That's part of the reason they became so popular. Most n/a Civics/Accords are doing good to break into the 14's if that's what you mean. I beg to differ on the S2k. 13.7@100mph has been done before with a bone stock S2k, and that isn't bad for an n/a 2.0L boinger. If you were left wanting it is probably because you aren't used to having to rev so high to make what little power you have. Boost can spoil a person.

You say the FD is so different from an S2k, but I'll have to disagree there. If Mazda had continued the RX7 name and ideals in an n/a form I bet it would be nearly identical to the S2k. 9k rpm's, FR drivetrain, 50/50 weight dist., and a very low polar moment sound like an RX8 except it's a two-seater a-la RX7. The FD is definitely not worlds away from an S2k except in terms of who came with boost because stock they are very close. The fact that an FD can be made faster or even bought faster for cheaper than some other cars doesn't make it "better" unless that's just your style. In which case I might suggest a domestic as well.

N/a Hondas running 10's is just people with way too much money trying to show off. I agree that they are worthless for anything else. This is why people use BOOST, just like any fast RX7(sans the occasional crazy FB or 3+rotor).

A 10 second NSX or S2k would probably still be capable of giving your FD more than a run for its money in an autox event. I have yet to see an FD get around an autox course decently well considering what it is. Most seem to have more focus placed on drag racing(). The last one I saw seemed like it was afraid of getting into boost and got an even slower time than I did in my S2k, which is shocking considering it was my first time out and I did horrible on my Yoko all-seasons. If you think it will be slower because it has to wait for a turbo to spool you would be mistaken; there are more than a handful of high horsepower supercharged NSX's/S2k's. Both cars were also built with pure handling in mind, which is why Honda may have seemingly neglected the big numbers.

BTW, there's an S2k that autox's here that seems to only come out behind the shifter carts, a BUILT C5 ZO6, and sometimes an Integra Type R. His car should only be good for around mid to low 13's from what I've seen.