edmcguirk

Mazda marketing tries to claim the cars are mid engined but I don't think anybody else believes it,

Valkyrie

The RX-8 is generally considered a "front midship"

Gingerbreadman87

man no one helped this kid out im ashamed at you guys ok if you wanted an import get an older civic si or crx there nothing in insuance and can look amazing

personally id get an camaro ss or z28 or even a trans am all of which can beat most imports stock and its easier to pick up chicks

Roen

iTrader: (2)

i think we're talking road course and not 1/4 mile.

RETed

If you reread everything, we are.

BTW, how old are you?
You type like a 1st grader...


-Ted

Larz

I think you missed your section. It's below. It's called the lounge.

dgracing29

Okay, Id like to put my 2 cents in. Just Because he is 17 doesn't mean that he is stupid and that he has to grow up, thats ridiculous, you guys should be encourageing him to start at such an early age so he can be successful, unless you are just regretting why you didnt do the same. I myself am 17 years old, and im in a racing team. Now you all are thinking that its any rice team that recruits hondas with mufflers on them.

No, I have been in karting, drift, autox, and drag racing. I am in the middle of building a Rx-7 Drag car. And im not rich, i earn everything from a job and im just letting you know that a 17 year old must not be underestimated and basically called a noob because he isn't older. Who cares, EVERYONE has to start at some time, if its late or early, its still better than never starting at all. You guys should be encouraging him for his bravery and passion for cars at such in early age, because every inspired racer like him contributes to the auto industry everyday.

And then you criticize him for saying that he stole FF from Initial D. I dont believe that, and someone who claims that so strongly has to have seen it himself. But whatever. Killer heres my advice to you, go out , get a car that you are COMFORTABLE with, have fun with it, and do your own thing. Now to answer your question, no FF wouldnt put you at a disadvantage, the driving styles are different as to brakeing and accelerating through turns but it is always better to learn how to drive all types of cars as that is just more ability and knowledge that you have under your belt. While building you car remember this, SAFE FAST AND CHEAP....your car can only be 2 of those, not all three.

RETed

Here's the problem...
The MAJORITY of 17 year olds don't have the MATURITY to be doing this kinda stuff.
I just love the person who said to just throw away the convention and follow your dreams.
Boy, I wish I could do that and ignore the bills!
Unless you're fricken rich, fricken lucky, or fricken talented, the safe bet is to get your life set and THEN pursue your dreams.
I'm sure there are lots of young people who tried and are now broke and living in poverty - care to disprove that?
If you want to work at McD's cause you were chasing your dream and got no other skills, then go for it.

There are always exceptions, right?
Why don't you tell us how much money do you make?
Are you sponsored?
How much is your ride worth?
Have you graduated high school yet?
Are you rich?
Are you talented?

Sorry if most of us are conservative in taking paths in life...


The original poster hasn't really replied since I asked.
It would be an easy conclusion if he just mentioned where he got "FF".
Since he didn't disprove it, I assumed he's guilty as charged.


-Ted

dgracing29

Okay check post #32, theres where he replyed. Oh and I'm not sure if those questions were directed to me but ill answer them anyway if you are "doubting" me.

Its not your business how much money I make, but I detail cars if that helps.
Yes im sponsored, they aren't very big sponsors but they support.

Which ride are you talking about? I have a couple.

No I haven't graduated yet, one more year.

Not even near rich. Just very smart with my money.

I'm an extremely modest person so i won't comment on that.

RETed

I'm glad you're able to pursue your dream.
I've got a $1,500 / month rent I gotta worry about.
I pay over $300 in gasoline every month.
And we haven't even gone into the food bill...
I work two full-time jobs just to keep in front of the bills and have some leftover spending money.
So that leaves me very little time or money to go pursuing something like racing.
I envy you.


-Ted

Killer With The Beat y0.

Like I said earlier, whether I agree or not, your opinion is your opinion. But to be completely honest, these replies along with your others make you sound very, very bitter. Sort of like a kid who decides he'll work a lot for extra money and personal possessions rather than try out for the basketball team. He always wanted to play, but due to his choices and dedication, didn't make it work. So now, due to jealousy, he squawks at the kid who'd rather play on the team and make just enough money to get by.

You chose not to play; there's no reason to hold anything against someone who will (or did) figure out how to make the team. Using your bills is nothing short of an excuse. Crying about your rent? You should've found a place that's cheaper. Whining about your gas? You're the one who didn't buy something more fuel efficient. You chose to live with things like that; whether you'll admit it to yourself or not, you placed them over pursuing racing. And that's why you're in your situation. Just because you chose not to follow your dreams doesn't mean you need to belittle someone who does choose to.

I'm not rich. I'm not spoiled. But I'm not going to let that stop me from doing what I want to do. I'm in a setup now where I'm going to be working two jobs as well, along with going to school and racing. The only time I'll have free time is 1 day per week, unless I decide to cut practice short on a day. Would it be easier if I were rich? Sure. Would it be a lot more practical if I were spoiled? Most definitely. But I'm choosing to do this myself, so I'm not going to hold anything against anyone. I'm taking responsibility for my own actions and decisions, and I'm earning everything I'm racing on. I'm going to have practically no spending money. And truth be told, those facts alone will probably make my desire for victory leagues beyond those who have always had what they wanted handed to them.

And if it all blows up in my face, I decide I don't have what it takes, or I just end up not having fun anymore, who cares? Even if involves personal sacrifices, I think trying and knowing the results is better than not trying and never knowing. I guess that's where our points of view differ.

And before you complain about the maturity of a 17 year-old, I suggest you reflect on yourself. For such a seemingly "grown" man, you should have better things to do than get involved in petty internet arguments, nitpick over an acronym*, and post 4200+ times per year on a message board. Stop calling the kettle black.

*(Which by the way came from me playing Gran Turismo, watching Hot Version videos, and having friends who own Hondas refer to them as such).

dgracing29

RETed

Actually, you got that wrong.
I've always lived my life by the motto: no regets.
Actually, I've played around too much, IMO, rather than follow the convention.
This is not about being bitter - you read that wrong.
This is more like - I've been there, done that - don't do the same mistake I did...speech.


See above.

I think you should take a deep breath and take a step back.
You're trying to argue with someone on the Internet.
Think about it.
I think you're taking this a little too personally.


See above.

I'm glad you can do basic math, but your conclusion is wrong.
The board got reset (several times in fact), and the post counts are not accurate.

Again, see my comment on arguing on the Internet.
I think you need to grow some thicker skin and learn how to ignore what people say...especially online.
I can throw the same comment on maturity just on this point; it does make you look like a kid.


Gran Turismo -> made for Playstation, owned by Sony -> JDM
Hot Version -> JDM videos
Honda ricers -> worship JDM
I still stand by my comments then.
The "FF" connotation was from something rice...


-Ted

Gene

iTrader: (1)

Hey don't go knocking too hard on Gran Turismo, I practiced the hell out of the Nurburgring on that sucker and when I got there for real last summer, I had a decent sense of the place, unlike my buddy who had neglected his studies and had a tremendous off at Adenauer Forst on his first lap.

dgracing29

yeh, many people on here will go saying that Gran Turismo is stupid and for kids, but yet they play it. Hypocrites are very interesting to me.

photopaintball

You sound a lot like me. 17 and likes to drive.
Dont listen to the people who tell you that its not possible.

I've driven: (in terms of sporty cars)
928gt
shelby gt350
m3
325i
integra
mercedes c230 sport
miata
rx7

__________________________________________________ ____
Why a miata?

Out of all of those, I suggest the miata. I always laugh at the kids who have finnally saved up enough money to buy their dream car, when you can get a slightly older one, and with the money you saved make it faster, better, stronger, etc.

The miata will run you half or less of what you want to spend for a GOOD one. And with the money you saved you can get suspension. and ss brake lines. They are reliable and parts are cheap.
---------------------------------------
Great handling and fun to drive, youll have a blast. Track cars are about the corners. Its satisfying to pass the $60k M3 in the twisties with your $10k car. You dont have to do anything to them to have a blast in them. Besides mabey a roll bar...
-------------------------------------
If you are considering not buying one because its a so called "chick car". Dont let it get to you. If you hang out with kids your going to get a lot of that. Same with people who have stripped interiors.

People will say: DUDE, why did you take everything out and mess up your car! whats wrong with you!
And you can say: A=f/m go back to physics you idiot.

Or you can go to the track and chill with people who compliment you on having a fast car and being a good driver with it.

__________________________________________________ ____
Being a kid?

I am a 17 year old male with one accident and my liability only insurance is under 500 for an GTU. ESURANCE-quotebuyprint, becomeacartooncharacter

In addition I go through gas and tires like nothing else. I had a new tires a month phase that seemed to correspond with my really bad gas mileage phase. Its a lot of money and youll be glad you have extra money.
-------------------------------
Dont let your mom get to you. You have to deal with her. Try to get her to listen so you can tell her how reliable and what a good investment the car your buying is, whatever it is.

_________________________________________
A plan?

If your serious about this I think the first thing you should do is go karting. You will learn the basics of apexing and get used to your limits. I think its a great way to merge from street to track.

After you have dont that you will most likely be addicted. You can go buy a car and do a driving school at a track. I mean a real one, not one of those highway survival courses.

I would spend money on going to the track versus making your car faster. It will be a long time before you can perfect the stock car


oh and have fun with it. dont practice on the street too much

RETed

Funny.
I never said "Gran Turismo is stupid and for kids".


-Ted

SilHaro

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I know this is my first post... but I've been here a while and I couldn't resist this . ^^


If you dont believe that then go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9bastien_Loeb. Look at the third paragraph under "A record season (2005)"

Also... if it helps at all I'm 17 as well and have pushed both FFs and FRs, but primarily FFs. If you understand the nature of front-wheel versus rear-wheel drive, and know the difference between how you should attack, brake, and accelerate, I dont believe it puts you at a disadvantage at all... but yeah it's definitely different.

FFs are much much easier to drive. A little understeer here and there is easier to cope with than spinning out and wrecking the entire car (why I haven't bought an FD yet). Early apexing is way easier than late-apexing, and on a mountain road where there's traffic and blind corners, late apexing is definitely a lot harder because you have to concentrate a little more on braking and when to turn, taking away your attention from the road, and other cars... not that I'm telling you to do anything illegal... nor that I do it. Stay in your proper lane buddy! But on another note, has anyone noticed how god-freakin-damned expensive racing school and an scca membership is? It's harder to keep us kiddies off of the streets than you would think.



- Chris

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

To the 17 year olds. Here are some pearls of wisdom from my last 20 years of driving, tracking my cars, doing some autoX and racing karts:

SCCA is only ~$65 per year. You don't need membership unless you are actually competing on something they sponsor such as Autocross or actual racing.

Racing School is pricey, but you get what you pay for. I recommend spending your money getting seat time at HPDE or karts until you are ready to actually race. Better allocation of resources.

A lot of people start out in karting or HPDE. A lot of people stay in karting and HPDE. Some go on and race in SCCA or NASA or BMW CCA once they have enough money and a stable enough job to afford the costs or racing in the series sponsored in those sanctioning bodies. Or they have so much talent that they get sponsored. The later is called a pipe dream but it happens to 1 out of a million people. Some people get a break through SAE programs in college.

Both karting and HPDE are fairly priced with karting being lots cheaper. I was doing HPDE at 17 (mid 30s now) on money earned working and driving my cheap, old VW I drove till I graduated college.

It is difficult keeping kids off the street for many reasons. Some might be:
- because you don't know the options available to you
- you are too young to have learned patience and will rather do it right now on the street than wait a month for a track day
- still testing the limits of your capabilities
I suffered from most of the above as a kid
Its also difficult b/c when you go looking for info you'll get conflicting and confusing information. Internet forums are notorious for that.

Best thing you can do is get in touch with local SCCA and NASA chapters if you are looking for autocross. Go to the tracks nearby you and find out what car clubs are renting them and then join and attend their HPDE events (NASA does a lot of these). Or just go to the tracks and talk to the HPDE organizers and people there to get real, first-hand info and see what goes on. Google also works as there are a fair amount of decent articles out there on getting started in racing.

Same thing with karting. A good resource is ekartingnews.com. Again get out there and talk to the people actually doing it.

Don't get too caught up in what specific car you start out with. Find a decent one that fits your budget and your needs and isn't very expensive. Don't worry about your image and how cool it would be to drive a BMW or a Vette or an FD or race a shifter kart. Debt is never worth it.

It is much more difficult to drive a powerful car all out than it is to drive a less powerful car so don't get caught up in HP numbers. Its a lot like ***** envy. Its what you can do with the overall package that counts. Handling and brakes and reliability are more important than HP to anyone that tracks a car or a kart.

There are also lots of books out there on the subject. Read them. You'll probably get better info than relying solely on what a search engine turns up. Motorbooks.com is a good resource.

Good luck.

A

cozmo kraemer

To answer your question I would say yes, learning on fwd would put you at a disadvantage, if your goals are to drive rwd racecars. If you want to drive fwd racecars then learn on the fwd. Racing is all about seat time. Get the seat time in the platform you want to be in. That's my opinion.

I still think the E30 BMW 325is is the best rwd car for the money. The Miata comes really close, but doesn't offer the versatility that you need in a daily driver. If I could put my kid in a 10-12 year old BMW when they are 16 I would do it. It is a great car...unless BMW changes direction with its product, which I don't see happening.

I, of course, had the honda experience too with my integra type r...and that was a blast and I learned a lot...but if you want to race rwd...drive rwd as much as possible.

Gilgamesh

OK my turn, im 17 and my dad put me and my brother into the autox scene because my brother wanted to drift an old mercedes diesel, but he hoped the curb bent the oil pan...all that good stuff...

MY very first event was a rallyX when i was 15, with my dad with me, we had picked up an old 12a 1st gen and got it running and threw it in the dirt, i got sence of how do correct oversteer and understeer and had a blast.

fastfoward:
now i have an ITA rx3 that we picked up with a 6port 1st gen for 5500, I am running CSP which is a HIGHLY competetive class, i am running 3rd or 4th out of around 10. we just got lucky and found a deal.


Now for the bmw part, you can pick up a e30 318 bmw for super cheap, and throw in a 95 M3 motor and you have a rocket, at some 7in wheels with v710s and you get a autox, hpde,TT,hill climb car.

Prod

I'm 20 and in a similar situation. I have my entire college tuition paid for by a NROTC scholarship. My mom was going to pay for my college, but because I got a scholarship, she bought me a nice daily driver (05 Legacy GT). Also, because I was saving for college, I put a lot of money away in the bank. Through various random events, a monthlky stipend from my scholarship, and summer jobs, that money in the bank has grown exceedingly. I'm an economics major, so I know a thing or two about managing money. I'm saving/investing most of it. The NROTC scholarship guarantees me a steady job for at least 4 years out of college. If I get selected for flight school like I'm hoping, I'll be in for 10 years. I'm hoping to make a career out of the Navy, so we'll see how that goes.

Anyways, I've decided that I need to get some under the hood knowledge of cars and better my driving skills. Also, I think road racing would be a blast so that's what I have my sights set on. So I bought a FC for $100 with a blown motor. 6 months ago I learned how to change my oil, right now I'm about 40% through an engine swap. My mechanical knowledge of cars is growing exponentially, I'm having fun, and to date I've spent $230 on parts (car was $100, engine was $130) and $62 on tools (note that my family already had a large tool assortment). Of course before the RX-7 is race ready, I'll probably have to spend at least $1-2k. I've incorporated these costs into my budget for the upcoming school year. (Basically not playing paintball, since it usually costs me $120+ a month)

I save a lot of money in two ways at college. One is by not drinking. I don't know what it is, but I hate the taste of beer and liquor and my body doesn't seem to like it either. A lot of college kids dump all their spending money into alcohol. I know guys that drop $50-100 per week on it. It's not like you can't go to a frat party or an apartment kegger and get free beer anyways. The second way I save money is by not having a girlfriend. For whatever reason, it works out that any girls I like don't like me, and any girls that like me I don't like. I don't do this intentionally, in fact I think I'd rather have a girlfriend than not, but I cannot deny the financial gains of my situation.

Best of luck to you in pursuing your goals, you definitely have the right idea. Just make sure you're not screwing over your future by concentrating on the present too much.

Rathmysphs

When I was 16 I bought an Infiniti G20 to be my test and growth car. It was an amazing decision. now after a few years have passed, I've become obsessed with the SR engines, started a GDub Club, and re-built.... I'm not even sure how many engines. I have around 150 track hours, probably more. my biggest influence was the fact that one of my climbing parters raced GTS4 for mercedes benz. He has been my biggest teacher in terms of technique.

FF is a great platform to learn on. I have a friend with an 88 civic DX for his track car. when you weigh 1250 you put up a fight to anything. he beats out my neighbor with an elise because the guy just doesn't know how to drive his car.

What I have to say if you care to listen is to get a platform that you can easily and inexpensivly build on that will help place you in an enviroment that will let you build and grow. Meet people, other people are what will make you.

raptor22

This is what you do:
-Find out what your mom's reasons are for her requirements
-Do some research
-Shoot her reasons down

Honestly, it doesn't really matter if your arguments are 100% correct...as long as you present it properly and have decent debating skills. Don't get mad, just be quick on your feet and make sure that she can't get a give her arguments a foothold...

Other than that, I agree with most of what has been posted.

--Alex

raptor22

Here's an example:

She tells me that small, fast cars are unsafe
I tell her that fast cars are generally built with a super stiff chassis for better handling...so they are SAFER
She doesn't beleive me, so I find some optomistic safety figures for the space framed fiero, call up examples of ferraris having good safety records (they are crazy strong), etc
I win the argument

To be honest, I know absolutely nothing about how safe the FC is, and don't really care. But I still managed to defend my point.

--Alex

PS: I don't play gran turismo, and don't watch initial D, but i still use the term FF