darkslide750

Well, over the weekend I got to run my car in the Club Racing AZ Time Attack out at PIR in Phoenix. This is really fun track and it uses Nascar turns 3 & 4 + the infield. My car setup is the following:

Single Turbo GT35/T4
Racing Beat front sway
D2 Racing Coilovers 13-9
275/40/17 Toyo Ra-1 all around (shaved)
V-mount
Dual oil coolers
etc.

The car ran great once again. My new coilovers are really working better than the Tein RA's I had on their before. I had a Racing Beat wing on the back before but I sold it and ran with nothing on the back. The car felt really neutral and turn-in was really good. I was having problems with oversteer before, but now that has been minimized greatly with the softer springs in the rear. I got second in the unlimited class(out of 3) and rant he 4th fastest time of the day 1:11x(out of like 15 cars). The bad: I still had some oversteer and I was getting the rear loose in the Nascar oval portion at like 110-115mph.

So here's the question: alot of the 240 guys are running large wings and I'm thinking about going big. What are some of the FD guys experiences with large aftermarket wings?
Something like this:
http://www.aprperformance.com/index....d=32&Itemid=45

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I believe Damian and Hedgehog here on the forum are both running GT wings (I think Damian's is the RE GT wing and Hedge's is the Mazdaspeed GT wing).

Most others like the '99 Spec adjustable wing.

RE-Amemiya

You may also want to get in touch with diyman25.

I know a lot of guys like to use the GTC wings you posted the link to for APR, as you can see by the pics.

darkslide750

I hope some of these big wing guys chime in. I want to know about gains for a big wing vs a smaller type wing. I should clarify I am looking only at wings with aerodynamics specific to providing more downforce.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I would suggest that whatever wing you decide on, make sure its adjustable. I will most likely go with the Mazdaspeed GT-C wing.

darkslide750

Like this
http://srmotorsports.com/srmzdspd.html
THanks btw

wickedrx7

iTrader: (14)

A little off topic, how do you like the D2 coilovers? I haven't heard much about them but there price is nice and the fact you can pick spring rates is awesome. Also. what rims are you running? Any rubbing issues? Fenders rolled?

Thanks for the info.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yep. Corksport has it a little cheaper:

http://corksport.com/store/category/...-exterior.html

darkslide750

About the D2's, the came prebuilt and looked to be very high quality. They came with 13k front and 9k rear and it felt like it. I started full soft and went up like 6 in the front and then went to 12 in the front. I was oversteering alot before(with the tein ra's) but the rear sets very nice now. Turn in, like always, was very good. Powering out of corners the rear felt pretty planted. I have a T4/Gt40 so I get a pretty good turbo kick, but it was holding even in off-camber corners. Honestly, I was dealing with major brake problems and didn't get the full test. By the time my tires were hot, my brakes were toast. I ran out of my EBC yellows and tried some Hawk HPS and it was very bad. I have a set of low mileage hawk hps's available for cheap! I ordered a full set of Hawk blues and slotted rotors.
The D2's are pretty tight(not bouncy) for the street with those spring rates but felt good with the big rubber on the track.

diyman25

Here are both of my Track cars. As you can see . I have Re Amemiya GT2 Spoiler on both cars. For the PIR. with GT Spoiler it for sure help. And I did a back to back test on the GT spoiler and none GT spoiler run in the same car same driver. With GT spoiler you can Feel the car is a bit slower on straight way but at Corner Exit and hight speed section it is faster then then Spoiler less and lap time wise is about average 1.5-3sec improve compare to wingless.

But one down side of add big GT Spoiler some time it will create Understeer. due the to the too much down force at back cause the front wheel to lift, thuse cause udnersteer. so Add a Front diffuser or lip will great reduce this problm, Done that in my FC with Stock bumper. Mazda Speed Lip. And RE Amemiya's FC2000 front bumper. Lip help a little, but not until I add the complete bumper( with much longer and wide lip at button) to solve this problem

darkslide750

Thats what I wanted to hear. Is the understeer issue mostly at higher speed corners or in the 30-60 mph range also?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

In general, more downforce in the rear creates understeer (as well as drag). Now, some of that can be countered with other suspension changes (mostly on race cars as they have more sophisticated suspension setups) and as mentioned more downforce in the front (once again, more drag).

The trick is finding the balance of getting the amount of downforce you need without sacrificing your speed and/or grip levels. That will just have to be something you experiment with to find what works for you.

cruiser

Generally aerodynamic forces on car wings only come into play at speeds over 60mph.

darkslide750

That is a higher speed than I heard before. I was told by the two time winner of the spec miata class that effects can be seen as early as 35 mph. This may or may not be the case but:
Question
At what speed do aerodynamics take a noticeable effect? ie. wing etc.

AMRX7

You can get significant downforce below 60mph, you just have to build an appropriate wing. Unfortunately, a wing that makes good downforce at low speed will probably have tremendous drag when you go faster. Erik Strelnieks and I run very large wings for autoxing, but we don't typically see more than 70mph. I certainly wouldn't be running as large of a wing with such a severe angle of attack for a track car that sees 100mph+.

Mine....
http://www.digitalracephotography.co...hur_4E_479.htm

Note: This is a modifed APR wing.

Erik's....
http://www.digitalracephotography.co...hur_4E_373.htm

Erik's is a custom built "real" wing with high cambered large front element.

As others have said, I think you'll get a benefit for sure from running a wing. However you may have to play around with angle of attack to get the traction you want without sacrificing speed. The APR performance wings are a good place to start as you can get some performance improvement without blowing your budget. Balancing a rear wing with a front splitter will help as well.

-Andy M.