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We are failing our Children..

Old 09-07-06, 07:58 PM
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We are failing our Children..

This is the title of this weeks Autoweek.

I do not post on the internet much but this subject hit a nerve with me and I think its time to step up and make a difference. We are all enthusiests and can agree when on the street its scary. Not only from the teens but from the adults that procreated.

Asking them to teach their kids to drive is a joke. Something needs to change.


The opening statistic?

Since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, about 2600 American troops have been killed in combat and war-related incidents. The count is well-known and updated regularly in news reports. Did you know during the same 41-month period, more than 22,000 teenagers, ages 15 to 19, died in traffic accidents on U.S. roads?
The article:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...PECIALFEATURES


As an auto enthusiest this article urges me to try to make a change. If everyone does something we can try to turn these horrible statistics around. Besides maybe 10 years from now the roads will have more skilled drivers on them understanding the terms, right turn to right lane left to left, left to pass only then get back over, etc....

Its worth a try, I spoke to a good friend that owns a driving school and offers a teen course. We are hoping to work together with area businesses to sponsor a free driving school for local high school teens. If anyone else is interested in organizing a local event PM me and I can help you. Although I am just now laying the footwork down to make this happen so I am in totally unexplored territory.

We are car enthusiests and no one should turn their back on this problem of lack of education for new drivers.

My friends school:

http://autocross.com/evolution/modul...le&artid=10%22

My 1st instinct was to try to cash in on this. But, after thinking I decided this was one that just needs to be done. I am willing to sacrifice some of my time to make it happen and I urge all of you to do the same.

Jean, the owner of Evolution is VERY receptive to any idea you may have and can provide professional instructors and the program that will work.

Please contact me @ [email protected] if you want to organize and put on a local school. I will help you with the details. I am doing my 1st one and its in its infancy but somehting needs to be done and asking parents that cannot drive to teach their kids to drive is a joke.

Education is the key, this is the best answer I can find.
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Old 09-08-06, 05:56 PM
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Wow. I don't know what else to say. I would be interested in helping with a school, but not as the organizer.

-s-
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Old 09-08-06, 07:29 PM
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wow... thats pretty shocking...

just for comparison, does anyone happen to know what the number of people 20+ who died in traffis accidents in US ?

but I completely agree. drivers these days are horrible. I'm only 20years old, and I can tell from even just 4 years ago when I started driving. every year, I'm astonished by the increasing number of things I see drivers doing that I can imagine would easily cause an accident, esp. to an unexperienced driver who might get a little nervous/intimidated.

but I think the #1 increasing problem, is driver's tempers, and how much people seem to be in a hurry to get nowhere - ex. pulling up in your way when you put on your turn signal to stop you from switching lanes, driving really late through yellow/red lights, not stopping fully at stop signs, etc... I'm sure I could pull out a lot more. but these are things that I see 'most' other cars on the road doing. not all of them are direct causes of accidents(esp. fatal ones), but I think they all very well reflect on the attitude that most people have when they drive these days, which IMHO, is what causes accidents.
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Old 09-09-06, 09:42 AM
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the number one contributing factor is the ******* cell phone. I'm a vet that got out and is went to college. I'm surrounded by teens in big SUVs that are too busy chatting on their cell phones. I left my FD at my mother's house. I've had too many close calls here with young drivers. Driving is too much of a right here, when it should be a privilege.
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Old 09-09-06, 10:31 AM
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i love the ones that is chatting on the cell phone trying to park, bump into a car, looks around and continue to park their cars, then get out like nothing happens.

I also love the arseholes that CUTS OVER TO THE INCOMMING TRAFFIC LANE, just to pass you or some other slightly slower driver. i tend to keep them on that side when they perform such a dangerous act. not to mention the people that suddenly sways in middle of a 2 lane road. and the taxi drivers that stop short, and the ******* idiots that think they can out handle the ******* cars.

new york drivers are great. :sarcasm:
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Old 09-09-06, 01:57 PM
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When I was in the army we figured out that it was safer to be in Iraq than driving on any American road. The chances of dieing are much greater on the roads.
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Old 09-09-06, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mechanic
i tend to keep them on that side when they perform such a dangerous act.
oh thats a GREAT idea....

now, I'm not condoning those peoples action's for passing you in the oncoming lane - thats an incredibly stupid idea, but all you're doing here is making an accident even more likely to happen... not only further endangering the idot thats trying to pass you's life, but any innocent person that may happen to be driving on the other side of the road.

see, this is what I'm talking about. sure, the guy is stupid for trying to pass like that, but instead of making the situation worse, why not do absolutely nothing and let him pass and don't worry about it? why do people go out of their way to make a situation worse, when it would be a lot easier to make it better? people need to just chill out and not worry about trying to make everyone else know that they're doing something wrong.

here's a situation of you:
someone accidentally pulls onto the road in a gap thats a little too small. you can either:
A: let off the gas and slow down, and not worry about it (maybe honk if you feel its necesary)
or B: get pissed and wait to brake untill you get as close to him as possible, and then slam on the brakes and honk as loud as you can for as long as you can, to let him know he shouldn't have pulled out.

I feel like MOST people on the road these days will do option B, which is freaking retarded. Its not like people don't know when they do something wrong (well, sometimes, yeah), but 99% of the time I'd say people realize as soon as they start to make a mistake. so why go to the trouble, and endanger someones life, and get really pissed off, when you could just slow down and not worry about it, and not almost cause an accident ?
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Old 09-09-06, 11:48 PM
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why not draft all the 15-19 year olds...send them over to iraq where they apparently will be better off?
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Old 09-10-06, 09:15 AM
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Not sure if teenage cell phone usuage is "the number one contributing factor", but I agree with the point. My teenage daughter has strict instructions in that regard. But speed, general inexperience, lack of understanding of the limits of the car, alcohol/drugs, street racing, weather, inattention for any number of other reasons... all play a part.
I'd be interested in more details about that Teenage driving school and how hard it would be to get something started in my area. Like venue requirements, costs and what do they do about liability? And does NASA or SCCA have any similar programs?

Last edited by Sgtblue; 09-10-06 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 09-10-06, 11:09 AM
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loud music is another. How loud does it really have to be? You're eliminating a valuable sensory input by blasting the music so the whole town can hear it. Our ears tell us so much. Hence you don't see anyone blasting music at events (at least the people that know what they're doing) like it's a Gran Turismo soundtrack.
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Old 09-10-06, 11:14 AM
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While I think this is a great idea, I also think its trying to fix the problem in the wrong area. Driver's test are a joke here in the US. IMO, the whole driver's license system needs to be re-thought. Cars have drastically changed since they established how to test people for licenses yet the tests are still the same.
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Old 09-10-06, 12:34 PM
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If these idiots only killed themselves, then I'd say just leave them alone and let Darwin sort it all out.... Unfortunately, that is not the case. Maybe they should authorize "skilled" drivers to kill those who pose a danger to others?
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Old 09-10-06, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by run_rabbit_run
why not draft all the 15-19 year olds...send them over to iraq where they apparently will be better off?

im offended by that statement JK

im 19 and i assure you not all 15-19 year olds are like that. the WHOLE problem is at this age people think theyre untouchable. that sums it all up; driving on the phone, racing, excessive speeding, all of it. when youre this age most kids dont take getting hurt/dying seriously. it takes a serious wake up call to bring some of them around, and that still doesnt bring others around.

i bought a susper sport bike a few months ago. after i got used to driving it i was hauling everywhere. i was doing 160mph on a daily basis, usual a lot more than once a day. it scared the hell out of my girlfriend. i didnt see anything wrong with it. i mean i didnt do it when anyone else was around. that way i was only putting myself in danger. i was also so sure nothing would happen to me(the untouchable factor).

well, after a VERY VERY small accident(layed it down in some grass as like 20-30) i got my wake up call. it didnt even hurt the bike at all, and it just scratched up my back and made me a little sore. i was driving into work, a road id driven everyday. just for some reason i couldnt make that last turn. i wasnt excessively speeding or anything. its just for some reason i couldnt make the turn. that was the best place that could have happened for me. if it would have been somewhere else and i had hit a tree or something else, i may not have gotten up. i believe God wanted me to have that small accident so itd be like reality bitch smacking me.

after that i realized all the crazy *** driving i had been doing prior was rediculous. i havent driven really crazy since.

just last night i was driving home at like 5am after my bestfriends bachelor party(no there wasnt any drinking) and i was driving fine and i gunned it a little in this straight away on my road, i didnt hit but somewhere around 60-80. afterwards i was like, i dont need to be doing this. what if a deer ran out in front of me when i was doing that. thatd be very bad for me and the deer. well, right after that i slowed back down and went around a turn. right after the turn there were three deers standing in the road. they didnt even run or anything at first. i had to come to a complete stop and then they moved. i could have still been flying there. if i had of been id of been going around 80mph were the deers were and i would have been seriously injured.

God game me my wake up call, now i just hope others will get theirs as well before they kill themselves or more importantly, innocent bystanders.
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Old 09-10-06, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
While I think this is a great idea, I also think its trying to fix the problem in the wrong area. Driver's test are a joke here in the US. IMO, the whole driver's license system needs to be re-thought. Cars have drastically changed since they established how to test people for licenses yet the tests are still the same.
High horsepower car? Harder drivers test. One test does not catch all. You want to buy and drive a rolling deathmobile H2, you have to pass one hell of a test.
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Old 09-11-06, 09:12 AM
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I've been considering getting involved in Driver's Ed training for sometime. Being a racer people tend to think I want to teach kids how to do emergency lane changes, slide the car etc. Not at all!

Teens aren't involved in accidents because they don't know how to control the car, kids are wrecking cars because they make poor decisions that put them into high risk situations which are easily avoided. Worst yet our lack of driver education means most kids were taught to drive by their parents and their parents are the ones I have to dodge on the roads everyday We're letting people who don't know how to drive teach others how to drive!

I support Jean in anything she does with the Evolution school and I think highly of her programs (I've taken several Evo courses), but I think if the goal is to make teens better drivers you don't need to teach them how to control a car that's trying to get out of control. Instead you teach them how to recognize and avoid those situations which carry any risk so they never happen in the first place. This used to be called "driving defensively". It's a shame few do it anymore.

Last edited by DamonB; 09-11-06 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 09-11-06, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigretardhead
I feel like MOST people on the road these days will do option B, which is freaking retarded. Its not like people don't know when they do something wrong (well, sometimes, yeah), but 99% of the time I'd say people realize as soon as they start to make a mistake. so why go to the trouble, and endanger someones life, and get really pissed off, when you could just slow down and not worry about it, and not almost cause an accident ?
AMEN!

I can't count the number I've times I've ridden with someone else and they are cutoff in traffic etc by an unattentive driver. They first scream a bad word at the other driver and then ride the car's *** while fuming. I always tell them "You're right. That guy IS a stupid idiot. Having established that he's a knucklehead and who knows what he'll do at any moment why don't you put a lot of room between him and us?"

The other I see all the time is while riding with a friend who has the right of way. Another car tries to intimidate them and get my friend to move over, let the other car turn in front when it's not their turn, they run a red light and make a left turn in front of my friend whose light is green etc and my friend will say "I'm going anyway. I have the right of way and it's his fault if we have an accident". I always tell my friends in these situtations that when I meet their Mom at the funeral I'll be sure to tell her "it was the other guy's fault".
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Old 09-11-06, 03:04 PM
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***more than 22,000 teenagers, ages 15 to 19, died in traffic accidents on U.S. roads? ***

While walking EVERY a.m. I view either mom or dad driving there dear little children to school. Who do these kids learn there bad driving habits & attitudes from? Speeding, not stopping at stop signs, no turn signals & most of all an attitude. When I as a pedestrian walk around the front of their vehicle becaues they are blocking the MARKED pedestrian walk way. The window comes down & they tell me the sort of person I am. I then ask them where they think their children are learning about driving from. Duh................... Enough said about 15 to 19 year young drivers. Get to the root cause of an issue. Learning starts at home. Respect starts at home.
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Old 09-11-06, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by David Dewhurst
***more than 22,000 teenagers, ages 15 to 19, died in traffic accidents on U.S. roads? ***

While walking EVERY a.m. I view either mom or dad driving there dear little children to school. Who do these kids learn there bad driving habits & attitudes from? Speeding, not stopping at stop signs, no turn signals & most of all an attitude. When I as a pedestrian walk around the front of their vehicle becaues they are blocking the MARKED pedestrian walk way. The window comes down & they tell me the sort of person I am. I then ask them where they think their children are learning about driving from. Duh................... Enough said about 15 to 19 year young drivers. Get to the root cause of an issue. Learning starts at home. Respect starts at home.
While I agree, you don't reinforce it by giving licenses using a flawed and dated system/test.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:09 PM
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We might be getting a little off-topic since the thread starter seemed to be talking about how we could make a change. Everyone has great points and personal examples, and all I can say is....welcome to my world. But how do you change it?
Even here on the forum there are otherwise mature, well educated and decent guys that are quite proud of how fast they've managed to drive on the freeway and/or how they got out of the latest speeding ticket. It seems like many have an attitude that it's only bad if you get caught. For the adults it's probably too late. But if you can change that sort of attitude in the teenage driver..........

Last edited by Sgtblue; 09-11-06 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 09-11-06, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
While I agree, you don't reinforce it by giving licenses using a flawed and dated system/test.
Agreed. Not a silver bullet for the problem, but I think this might be a starting point with the kids. Overhauling the testing and requirements would emphasize that driving is legally a PRIVLEDGE ... not a right. Make driver's ed mandatory and more than a few sessions over 4 weeks. Make it a couple of semesters with performance objectives as important as the paper tests.
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Old 09-11-06, 09:03 PM
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Since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, about 2600 American troops have been killed in combat and war-related incidents. The count is well-known and updated regularly in news reports. Did you know during the same 41-month period, more than 22,000 teenagers, ages 15 to 19, died in traffic accidents on U.S. roads?
While I agree with the problems being discussed, I was very annoyed by the quote from the original article.

Does that 22,000 only include accidents where a teenager was driving? Or also include accidents were adults were driving and teenage passengers were present?

What do these numbers look like if you compare percentages of soldiers in Iraq to soilders killed, with drivers in America in that entire timeframe to accident fatalities?
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Old 09-11-06, 09:18 PM
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A Big Part Of Crashing Is That Psychologocaly We Are Not Afraid Of Speed. You Can Put A Baby In A Dark Room And It Will Cry, But It Is Incoherent To Speed. So Maybe That Has Something To Do With It
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Old 09-11-06, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rotarydelight
A Big Part Of Crashing Is That Psychologocaly We Are Not Afraid Of Speed. You Can Put A Baby In A Dark Room And It Will Cry, But It Is Incoherent To Speed. So Maybe That Has Something To Do With It
i think that's a load.

a big part of our driving problem is just the opposite, that we are afraid of speed. we are so afraid of speed we have an entire highway system devoted to social engineering and making people afraid of going fast instead of focusing on the true issue, that we as a whole are woefully unskilled.

there is nothing dangerous about speed in the hands of a skilled operator. the issue with our transportation system is that instead of stressing the people become better drivers, we stress that they go slower, and that THAT will save their lives.

i feel the german autobahn experiment has effectively proved that notion to be crap.

jims5543, you have email.
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Old 09-12-06, 01:18 AM
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shoot, i think you should look at all those hating ******* in the civics, their always dawging me and trying to provoke me into ****, not only that they suk at driving, life!!
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Old 09-13-06, 11:33 AM
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Yesterday I was coming home from work. There is an intersection with a left turn-only lane and a right lane for turns/straight. The right lane backs up pretty far while the turn lane does not. So after waiting 10 minutes to go straight, I finally get my green as a BMW comes raping up the left turn lane, goes WOT and shoots into the center of the intersection, into the left turn lane on the far side of the intersection and cuts in front of everyone who waited patiently to go straight across.

Not only is this behavior extremely dangerous to everyone else around but it really shows the fundamental problem of these selfish drivers believing they are more priveledged than everyone else on the road. I wish we could do something about them, but in this country driving has become almost a right. It's a huge business, has enormous impact on the economy and generates gobs of revenue for the government. People can get away with just about whatever they want. The more people they can license, the more cars get sold and the more taxes are collected. Whether those people deserve licenses or not.

If it were up to me, we'd have a system where individual drivers could "tag" cars they see doing stupid things. Enough tags from multiple different drivers and the violator's license could be suspended or insurance rates for that individual would go up.

Okay enough ranting. Last thing I wanted to point out -- while there are 10 times as many teen deaths in the US than there are American soldiers killed in Iraq, it doesn't mean Iraq is safer. These figures have to be considered per capita. There are many orders of magnitude more teen in the US than there are soldiers in Iraq so the figures are disparate ;P
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