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Tuning an FD for track use

Old 09-27-18, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lavitzlegend View Post
Unfortunately where I live in the U.S. the closest hill climb event would be around 10 hours or more drive to get to. However, I do get quite a bit of time on race tracks doing endurance and sprint racing so that keeps me busy. I'm saving up to hopefully buy an FD over the winter or next spring after I sell a few of the other toys (couple dirt bikes and a crotch rocket). There is a black '93 R1 for sale near me right now that isn't running but has a supposedly fresh built half-bridge REW ready to go in... Not sure if I would put that engine in or instead go back to a stock port setup to pair nicely with a good turbo setup... Decisions... I'm definitely targeting the 8374 EFR turbo setup though based on all the reviews and dyno sheets I've seen. Power seems to come on early but is still linear and usable. Would be really interesting to see how your car would respond to such a setup. All signs seem to point to that combination for giving good response and power while not having to exceed 20 PSI to do it.
Well, you seem to troll the forums quite a lot so by now you should have a good understanding about what you are getting yourself into when buying an RX7.
So if this life makes your boat float, totally go for it!

Black R1 is my kind of taste

Originally Posted by Lavitzlegend View Post
Here's a great video of a test drive of a street ported FD with EFR 8374 setup. You can tell just how responsive the turbo is and how linear the power delivery is as well. He has no problems modulating the throttle and getting power to the ground. Also he's running Ohlins with some Bridgestone re71r 200 tread wear tires. So you can kind of get a preview of how those handle the canyons and bumps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlOYX124hrU
I remember seeing that video a while back. The car indeed seems responsive and that matches with what everyone is posting about the EFRs.

That said, as my budget at the moment is not EFR range budget, I have chosen to go for a S300SX-E with a 76mm AR1.00.
Still an upgrade from what I had, with better response, lower peak boost and more power overall.

|It might not be the best of the range (as we all wish for when doing upgrades) but will have to do for now.

Hope to have the car running in a few weeks time again so hopefully I will be able to review this here before snow comes here and throws the towel on the season of 2018.

Originally Posted by billyboy View Post
Sounds good! Have found the breather of the tank is important too - if not recirculating. Initially had an outlet around 15~20mm and the filter would spew a bit of oil into the engine bay with the velocity out of the can, welded on a larger flange around 35mm with a bigger filter and that problem ceased.

Don't normally run treaded tyres here now, so may be a bit out of date. We have run a yoko 050 medium in drizzle a few years back, toyo and dunlop versions in the past. The hot ticket for the hillclimb would probably be hankook z221 or an 050 soft....but then again paying a lot more than double the price of the nankangs....at least here.

Suspension choices look promising, hopefully the ohlins are the Swedish ones if you go that way. The older Japanese reservoir versions at least, were pretty dire and needed a complete revalve to work properly in the conditions here. This was how the bilstein car ended up a few years ago, it had a 8374 and that corner is normally around 270~280 kph, the other guy was innocent, but driving like he was taking miss daisy to church rather than in a race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LCywfdfGEM

That electrical gremlin issue, might be the usual FD failing , I'd check the harnesses in the wheel wells to see if there's been any rubbing. If that gets bad, harnesses are NLA - and you'd be in for a world of pain short of a CAN install....or dozens of solder splices.
Ouch, that crash looks nasty. And silly at the same time.
At least both walked away with no injuries so thats they most important thing.
Metal is metal.

Will have to test the car with the breather setup and will keep your recommendations into consideration and check for any oil spitting right from the top of the breather of the tank.
The filter and the port to it look big enough, I hope they will suffice.

As for the harnesses in the wheel wells, I had thought about that but after asking someone told me that there is no connection to the main power lines on those harnesses. So the effect I get couldn't be traced but to those cables.
If that isn't so, then maybe I should check them all again...
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Old 09-27-18, 09:41 AM
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I already have 2 FC RX7s, one 10AE that is mostly stock and a full bridge n/a racecar so I'm no stranger to rotary ownership. Can't get enough and looking to add an FD to the lineup! Always been my dream car and finally am at a place where I can scrap together the cash for a relatively clean one to build up. Starting to feel the urgency of the situation though as I want to get one before the prices get too crazy... Low mileage all original ones are starting to hit the $40k+ range here in the states......

I'm really really curious to see how that turbo works out for you. I have been trying to decide lately if I should target an EFR IWG setup for the simplicity or the s362 sx-e (8376) like you are going with. Both seem to be good options but I'm not sure I want to deal with external wastegates... Although it does give more flexibility in the future to swap turbos without breaking the bank again... Obviously this is all assuming I can finally purchase a clean FD!

Last edited by Lavitzlegend; 09-27-18 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 09-27-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Nabu View Post
Have you used a catch tank with bigger lines Smokey?

The writeup from Damian and his setup, and how a wider line will benefit the air going into the breather without pushing too much oil makes absolute sense.
I am curious if you have and still got the same amount of oil pushed into the tank.
Sorry for the delayed response, been busy lately. Yes in tracking a stock-twins FD for the past 10-ish years I've tried a variety of setups including -10AN lines on various baffled or non-baffled oil necks, smaller vent lines, multiple vent lines, using the PVC line, etc. I even tried making a second vent to the (still in use) secondary turbo oil drain. Some worked better than others, but I've found at least on the stock twin turbos you need to run the oil level low, and I run an oil pan with baffles and doors around the oil pickup to be comfortable with the lower oil level. Some still comes out, but much more manageable.

You're on the right track with Damian's setup in that I think the real solution is if you're single turbo that you can fully utilize a second vent to the unused turbo drain line to vent that side of the motor. That's not a viable option for twin turbo setups and I think is the piece that makes a big difference. Make sure your catch can is vented as well.
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Old 09-28-18, 05:19 PM
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Definitely check your wheel harness. One of the guys around here was having similar issues with his FD. His car would cut out, lose power, shut off, stumble, and lose electrical power. His car was so low that his tires rubbed in to the harness and tore up the wires.
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Old 05-31-19, 04:04 AM
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It's been a long long time since I wrote an update here but that doesn't mean there hasn't been progress!

November 2018 on one of my last trackdays, I managed to actually lose an apex seal.
Was pushing too much boost and at some point the seal had enough.

It was a good time though ,during winter time to get the rights parts and build the engine strong again.

Fortunately, the guy that had built the engine in the first place was with me during the time the engine went.
Car returned back to the workshop and he pulled the engine out on the same evening.

After the engine was undone we saw that all the housings were like perfect and just some pieces of apex seals broken, but no damage done.
At this point its good to mention that the seal were Atkins. Not stock.

Long story short. Goopy seals and gaskets ordered and the engine was built over winter.

Going back to the oil leaking problem and electrical cuts.....

Before the engine blew we had already installed a catch can with thick oil lines as mentioned here.
Along with that, the plastic OEM oil filler neck was swapped with a metallic one.
Tested it on track and glad to report that the oil leaks STOPPED!

Fast foward to February 2019 where we installed the engine in and redid the wiring loom!
Found no major issues and one grounding a bit loose! So we thought that this was the cause of the problem!

A few months later I am able to test the car on track just to figure out in great disappointment that the issue is still there!!

Fast forward to May 2019, where the person that built the car comes up with an idea, he removes the relay of the ECU, cross bridges it with a switch that operates the power to the ECU directly and... BOOM .... I test the car on track and everything is working without any issues at all!

This is not problem solved exactly but this narrowed the issue down to two cables that he will check and replace due in time!
And at the same time the car can be driven as it should on track!!

Happiest man on earth!
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Old 05-31-19, 04:41 AM
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Another upgrade we had last year was going from the Greddy TD06 G25 to a Borg Warner SXE-S362 AR01.
At the time we swapped the turbo, the car was running a Greddy exhaust manifold, which is quite big already and also due to the larger turbocharger lag increased quite a lot!

Something that is not particularly good when tracking a car. Better response and mid range power is preferred in order to have greater adjustability during cornering.
I now had to enter the same corner with one gear less almost, otherwise the car would feel numb and I couldn't rotate it well inside the corner. Wasn't greatly impressed by this.
Sure power was much more, and at the end of the straights I could see greater exit speeds, but this is not all the fun when driving on a track.

So, after the engine went boom, I thought that this would also be a nice opportunity to upgrade the whole turbo system a bit.
And what better solution, based on the turbo which I had already purchased (couldn't go EFR due to budget limitations) thats that of Turblown's entry level kit.

That means... Short runner turbo manifold (smaller size, less air volume, better spooling times/response) + Turbosmart 50mm external waste gate.
Also due to the difference in design of the short manifold, the turbo was now able to come a bit to the back, leaving more space from the intercooler and we could finally put an air filter on!
And since everything was out, some heat insulation was also added as well as some ducting on the V-mount to help with funnelling all the incoming air on the radiators.

Before with the Greddy setup.....




After with Turblown's SXE kit....



When I was looking for this kit back in Christmas, and as it was newly introduced by Turblown back then, I saw that a lot of people were worried about fitment issues as this is quite a big turbo.
As of this I thought of making a small video showing what was needed in order to fit the turbo kit with their short runner manifold.

As you can see in the video below, there is just some small grinding needed in order to clear both the left and right side before installing the turbo.


Cheers guys,
Konstantinos!
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Old 05-31-19, 10:32 AM
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Wow that turbo kit is super cheap! very tempting for my turbo FC.... Also, the WG placement is interesting. Hopefully you don't ever want to change turbine housings!

Get some more FD videos up on the channel! I don't know what it is exactly but I just can't enjoy the v6 miata... Just doesn't feel right haha
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Old 06-10-19, 08:05 AM
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Yeah, wanting to change turbine housings might be an issue!
I thought about that , especially as I wanted to swap to a 0.9 housing from the 1.0 I am running now, but I couldn't be patient enough so I welded the wastegate on!

As for the video.... ask and you shall receive :P


Did manage to do a few good laps around Spa the other day.

Temperatures rock solid at 1bar of boost. They just wouldn't go up!
Look at how the engine delivers at the dash readings.
I really can't believe how much difference the drop in boost has made in terms of temperatures.

1 bar looks like the sweet spot indeed!
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Old 06-16-19, 12:30 PM
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With the car running better than ever....

- No oil leaks
- No overheating issues (now at 1.0 bar boost)
- No electrical issues - cuts

And as last week I was able to leave work a bit earlier + the weather was looking good, I decided to travel quickly to the Nurburgring (120kms away from where I normally am) to do a few decent laps, and away from weekend tourist traffic.

Unfortunately and as rarely everything goes as planned, there was a biker crash a few minutes after the track opened which kept everyone out of the track for quite some time and that meant that the evening wasn't going to be as quiet as I thought it would.

But as a bonus, my friend Kostas (yup we got the same name but he is a bit more hairy than me :P ) happened to also be available and take his V6 LFX swapped Miata and give me a proper run for my money!

So here we are... stock suspension with lowering springs... stock 16'' wheels... stock brakes... and plenty of power...
Not a good combo I know!


PS: Don't hate me for not being able to run away from the little Miata!
PS2: Suspension is up next!

Regards,
Konstantinos.
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Old 06-16-19, 08:17 PM
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I saw the vid on youtube and groaned "I gotta watch a Miata spank an FD on the ring." to my friend because I know he has much more chassis prep,

But you held your own. Pulled him hard out of the turns into the straights too despite his engine swap.

Nice work- your FD is going to be a real weapon with some coilovers and 18x10 to 18x11 wheels and 285s to 295s. Congrats on working out the bugs- must feel awesome!
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Old 06-17-19, 10:30 AM
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This car is really coming along nicely! Now you get the enjoyment of agonizing over every suspension variable and tire combination until you get that sorted too! (thought I would throw that in there just incase you thought you were almost done haha) Any plans on which coilovers and wheels you are thinking about?
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