finky

iTrader: (2)

I have been milling over the rules in last Fastrack for next year. The 2 that affect the RX-7s most are:

Street Prepared
"f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts refrencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted"

Great except for
"b) No changes are allowed to wastegate(s) size, number, or location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometry-turbine (VGT) hardware."


F Prepared
RX-7 (79-85)
RX-7 (86-91)
Alternate engine: Renesis



These new rules affect me because I have an FD that I have been running in SM2 simply because I have a PFS Purple EMS. I will be going back to ASP for next year for sure (especially after finishing 26th out of 27 at Nationals). How much boost can we safely extract out of the 13bt and 13brew under this new ruleset?

Also, I have an FC I have been slowly prepping for FP someday. By the time I finish that the Renesis' will be cheap enough to buy one. Will they ever be as versatile as the 13b in AX performance? I know porting is still a little sketchy as seen on RX-8 forum.

Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the new rules. We have all winter to get ready for next season. Let's brainstorm to improve the breed.

Jeff

Black91n/a

Do you mean to say that the FC will be in FSP now, instead of being in CSP? Cool. I get killed in CSP by race prepped Miatas. Maybe I can win now! Muahahahaha! Although the competition will be scarse, not the most fun way to win, but hell, I'll take it!

finky

iTrader: (2)

No, FB and FC n/a are still in CSP. Which you could now run an aftermarket computer being Street Prepared. The rule is for F Prepared.

Spank

iTrader: (1)

For the FD ASP is the place to be. Boost is unlimited, you can run an alternate computer like a PFC, Wolf, PF, Etc. The turbo must be stock.

Why do you care if we cannot change or modifiy the wastegate? I still run the stock wastegate at big boost.

I will be running in ASP next year after making some changes to my car over the winter. I ran stock sequential for 3 years with peak boost over 20 lbs. Finally puked the turbos and the exhaust wheel shot out my exhaust pipe in Vegas.

finky

iTrader: (2)

I would like to port the wastegate purely for safety more than performance. 20 lbs hmmm. how were your transitions at that amount. My spikes to 17 are not smooth at all.

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

My current class is SM2, but I plan to run ASP next year with this rule change.

I'm currently running generally 2 seconds behind the leader of ASP in my region and that's with 8psi of boost (a boost problem I will fix this winter).

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

I often read that 15-16psi is the max efficiency of the stock turbos.

Travis R

The other thing that is allowed in FP is running renesis rotors in a different 13B (4 port, 6 port, etc.).
You can thank (or lambast) me for that one. I wrote a letter asking for clarification on changing compression ratio and that was the result.

finky

iTrader: (2)

I thought that too. This is why I posted the thread to get ideas shooting around. Spank, what are you using for injectors? Without having my rulebook in front of me I am not sure of SP rules on those.

Oh yeah, thanks Travis.

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

Intake, Exhaust, Intercooler, Manifolds, and your Fuel system are unlimited in SP (as long as the setup is safe).

afgmoto1978

iTrader: (6)

Sweet, I'm running a Re reflash to be legal now I can go PFC and Datalogic!!! I race against two Viper that are on average 4 seconds faster than me. I should be able to give them a run for their money next year.

Umrswimr

So I'll finally have some cars to run against in ASP?

'bout GD'ed time! ASP attendence is teh weak.

DELTA_Rotary

What about using update/backdate rules for the 99spec turbos in ASP now?

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

In other words, yes.

AMRX7

99specs were nevere available in the US, so can't be used. I think the new rules will allow an FD to be legally competitive in ASP, though it will very very hard to beat a top level driver in a Z06. If you could change the rear end to something shorter than the 4.1, that would help alot. Unfortunately, that's only possible in SM2.

I agree with Finky on the boost levels. Even when I ran 15psi on stock turbos, I would see a ~80ft-lb jump when transitioning. I would expect to only be worse with higher boost levels, unless you are doing something else that may not be legal.;-)

-Andy

NeoTuri

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I found it.

Sucks

Spank

iTrader: (1)

Travis as you saw fuel and ignition are free. So run any injector size you like.

Delta, Andy is right, since we never had a 1999 RX7 in the U.S. you cannot use those turbos. And as Andy said, running 4.1 gears will slow down our acceleration. I can tell you with 4.7 you accelerate like a big dog. At 4.1 it will be much slower. However with the unlimited boost we may be able to use everything the car has without worring about spinning coming out of a corner. Also Andy knows, that a top ZO6 will be hard to beat. Tom Berry in Thomasons old car will be a killer, as well as Mr. Popp. However, Andy I can say i don't know if that car is legal in ASP. Remember the motor was blown and so after a couple of attempts he has the crate motor in it. What do you think the chances are that it has a cam?

Also when you run really high boost it is very hard to tune out the transition. I have a 80 ft lb increase in torque within a 300 RPM increase. It was so hard I had to run 335's in back to get it to work. Now you can tune out much of the jump but it involves time.

Also remember that the Porsche GT2 can increase it's boost also. However at some point I think you get too much power to use.

Andy what do you think. I will be making changes over the winter to bring the car back to SP level. Knowing who was fast in ASP and now they are in SM2. Also knowing who is left and how fast they are, what are the chances of a RX7 winning?

I think James, Tom, and Danny will be the biggest issues. We may have less power but with 350 or so and 4.1, we can pin the throttle and let the boost build.

What do you say? I have to believe I would do better in there than racing against you and all the other Big HP cars now coming into the class.

Allan

AMRX7

Well, Tom is not the kind of guy who would do anything questionable in the motor of his Z06. In any case, it really isn't necessary as the Z06's make plenty of power in ASP legal trim. The real class killer in ASP may be the GT2 since they already make 470rwhp without any extra boost.

I think an RX7 could do OK, but would probably need to run 285/18's all around since you will need the short/light tire for the acceleration. Remember that in SP you will need to run 2/3 of a tank of gas since you can't modify the tank. I would think the lightest an ASP RX7 will get will be low 2600's.

For the RX7 to win it will need to be at least as well driven as the other top cars in ASP, and that is a tall order considering some of the other drivers. In 2004 my car was basically an ASP RX7 with boost controller and 4.77 gears. As such it could keep up with the Z06, but take away the gears and I wouldn't be so sure, especially on lower speed courses.

Of course, with the new C6 Z06 going to ASP, that may change everything as well.

-Andy

DamonB

I think all the rule change did was make the RX-7's already in ASP legal

The change certainly helps out the RX-7 but I can't see how it now becomes dominant of the Z06.

DamonB

I've been thinking about it but ASP and SM2 are weak locally. SM2 is good at the Divisional and above level but I'm not willing to spend that amount of money to be competitive.

Regionally I run faster times in SS than ASP, SM or SM2 do but I stay in SS because we have more entries. If ASP were stronger I'd put springs on and jump.

alwan16

the boost change in street prepared is going to be a welcome change for rx-7's but it still won't be easy to beat the corvettes or gt2's. the 4.1 gearing just makes it almost impossible to come of of the corners with the acceleration as the gt2 or z06 can. i've thought about making the necessary changes to my car (boost controller, engine management, 315's in the back, etc.) but spending big money while only maybe getting a little closer to top cars seems like pretty big risk. i can only imagine that the vettes and gt2's will only get faster and faster too. it will take someone that's an awesome driver who is committed to maxing out the rx-7 to bring it back to the top of asp....

Spank

iTrader: (1)

Yes I agree with you. As for weight, yes I will be about low 2600 with more fuel due to having to get rid of fuel resevior. So knowing my car, do you think I should stay in SM2? You, Gary, Bill, Moffet?. What do you think? I like SM2 but it is very difficult. Am I just looking at ASP as grass is always greener?

If you think I should stay in SM2 I may just do that. It just means that you will keep kicking my ***. But you do know am bigger than you!
If I stay in SM2 it will certainly be cheaper than paying for all the work I would have to do plus another motor to go back to ASP.

I just think what will hurts us the most is the rear gearing of 4.1.

I look forward to hearing what you think.

Thanks Andy

Allan

AMRX7

Allan, considering some of the cars in ASP now I think you will have a hard time there. I think you will spend alot of time and effort turning your car into an ASP legal one, as well. Ultimately, I think a well prepared SM2 RX7 is going to do better in SM2, than a well prepared ASP RX7 in ASP. However, SM2 still has the possibility of a little car class killer that no one has built, yet. Tough decision.

If I were starting from scratch I'd probably build for ASP and see how it went. But considering how much you'd have to undo on your car to go back to ASP, not sure it would be worth it. For one thing, if I were in ASP and couldn't run the short gears, I'd be trying to make the car as small as posible, which would mean the 285's with no flares (make the car narrow).


-Andy

Icemastr

iTrader: (2)

In ASP shorter tires are better, maybe the 285/35/18 Hoosiers would be a good choice. I think there is a better chance for a great driver to get a trophy spot in ASP than SM2 if the field is similar next year as it was this year, there are just more very talented drivers in SM2 than ASP. I think it will be very difficult to take one of the top three spots in either class though. The only people I can think of scarier to face than Mckee and Strelnieks(heard a rumor about him going into SM2?) is Thomason and Daddio. I dont think Allan needs to do all that much work to his car, I think he has most of the parts already just needs the time to reinstall them and we all know he is retired anyways . His biggest problem will be the fuel system. Are external fuel pumps allowed? I know he has had fuel system problems from not using the external reservoir. The tank modification that hinson does is not legal is it?

AMRX7

No question on the shorter tire, the 285's are the way to go, though I would run the Kumhos. As far as class depth, ASP is pleennnty deep with James GW, Tom Berry, Danny Popp.

Erik will be in SM2 next year with his 3-rotor, so that should make things more interesting. I will do my best to keep up with him in my widdle 2-rotor.

For SP rules, you will need to run alot of fuel. You can replace the pump, but you can't change baffling or add surge tanks, etc. That difference alone will make an ASP car ~100lbs heavier than an SM2 car.

-Andy