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suspension for T2?

Old 02-17-05, 08:24 PM
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Talking suspension for T2?

Ok I am building a T2 for my dad to race in autocross and hillclimbing. I would like some advice on suspension brands and setups. I would like to keep the suspension budget under $800 (I work at a speed shop so I can get stuff at wholesale). The car is bone stock now with the exception of a FCD and turbo timer. I would like to build the car to around 250hp.

Thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 02-17-05, 08:41 PM
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,
Attached Thumbnails suspension for T2?-img_2164-medium-.jpg  
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Old 02-17-05, 08:51 PM
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Cheers what type are those?
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Old 02-17-05, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jreynish
Cheers what type are those?
isc racing
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Old 02-17-05, 09:21 PM
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the next rellavent questions;
where did you get them; link me
what are the rates? and are there others available?
most important How much?
Thanks, i am looking for a good set.
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Old 02-17-05, 09:37 PM
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Dampers/sways/braces. Since we are on the cheap, I'd say some used cusco/koni/tokiko with rates around 450/275. RB adj. sways, and your budget is done. 800.00 is tough, 1200-1500 is easy. I'd definitely hit all the for sale forums, and get some used single adj. dampers w/the rates I mentioned. You can call me at 707-696-2705 on the weekend, and I'll spend some time talking about choices. CP racing triangulated strut bar in the front if you have the funds, but better to put the money into dampers Regards, and good luck, Carl
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Old 02-17-05, 10:25 PM
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www.iscracing.net thats for the stuff cheers posted.
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Old 02-17-05, 11:27 PM
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let me know how those are Cheers
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Old 02-18-05, 06:24 AM
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They look like Bilstien struts in a coilover spring kit.
Dunno why the fronts are colored blue though...


-Ted
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Old 02-18-05, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RETed
They look like Bilstien struts in a coilover spring kit.
Dunno why the fronts are colored blue though...


-Ted
The fronts are an insert similar to the koni's. You modify the stock shock housing to accept the bilstein setup.

Rates are 400 and 250 front and rear respectively. I think I paid 1080 + shipping for this setup. It would've been cheaper, but I ate the core charge for shock housings (i live in canada, they are in florida), and I paid them 65 dollars each for them to do the welding and cutting.

The AWR version is a little bit better, I think Tony revalves them for the particular spring rate, whereas iscracing doesn't and can't. His version is about 500 more since he uses his own strut tubes, and the revalving costs more money. If I feel taht my setup isn't up to snuff interms of valving, i can send them back to bilstein USA and have them preform the valving to my needs.

Also, THEY ARE NOT ADJUSTABLE, just in case anyone was wondering. For me I don't mind, because I don't have enough track time to be testing and tuning thousands of laps judging if 1 click from the left is better then two clicks from the left etc... I just want to slap them on... play around with camber, and toe at the track and try to be competitive enough to win rookie of the year for time trial competition.

Right now I can't say anything about the performance of them since there is about 2 inches of snow outside, i will let you guys know when I have them out in the spring.

Last edited by Cheers!; 02-18-05 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 02-18-05, 10:41 AM
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what about Tokico Illumina with Eibach springs (pro kit) any thaughts on them....
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Old 02-18-05, 10:58 AM
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With all do respect, it hardly takes thousands of laps(for most of us ) to judge adjustments in valving. For a non adj. not custom valved I'd suggest passing on that set-up. Also 400 is too soft for AX even in a dual use car. If you go to dampers with the capacity for at least 500lb fronts, you can get away with non-adj. sways, and play with springs. For a novice sways are however the fastest, and easiest way to change the overall balance of the car. The combination of that, and tire pressures will give you results you can sense, and take advantage of, run to run. Valving changes are more subtle, but make all the difference when going from a relatively smooth surface, to a bumpy, or wet one. Regards, Carl
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Old 02-18-05, 11:02 AM
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As far as lluminas, I'd check what the max rate on those are, I think it's around 375lbs. I'd try to get a set of used Koni sports, and ad GC coilovers to them. If you can find them, that set-up usually goes for ~600.00 a set used with the coilovers. Then add RB ADJ. sways, and you are done for ~1000.00. Carl
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Old 02-18-05, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
With all do respect, it hardly takes thousands of laps(for most of us ) to judge adjustments in valving. For a non adj. not custom valved I'd suggest passing on that set-up. Also 400 is too soft for AX even in a dual use car. If you go to dampers with the capacity for at least 500lb fronts, you can get away with non-adj. sways, and play with springs. For a novice sways are however the fastest, and easiest way to change the overall balance of the car. The combination of that, and tire pressures will give you results you can sense, and take advantage of, run to run. Valving changes are more subtle, but make all the difference when going from a relatively smooth surface, to a bumpy, or wet one. Regards, Carl
We'll see how we do before I come to conclusions.

Suspension spring rates depend on many factors, not just running them as stiff as possible. I drive in bumpy ex airports, old race tracks and parking lots for autox and time trial competitions. You can't run a stiff suspension for bumpy tight courses. I have a feeling this setup will do just fine.

Last edited by Cheers!; 02-18-05 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-18-05, 03:48 PM
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Not, concluding, just pointing out an easily overcome limitation. I am sure you did your homework, and as such know what you want. For someone new to tghe sport a more flexible set-up is a good idea. AWR runs very competitive EP cars w/non-adj. dampers, so obviously it is doable. Carl
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Old 02-18-05, 04:07 PM
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If I were competing in any form of racing that runs under changing track conditions (drizzle, rain, really cold, really hot, different surfaces at different tracks) I would insist on having adjustable shocks. As soon as surface grip changes the shock needs to change if you want optimum performance.

The first time it rains and you soften the shocks you'll find yourself flying by the guys whose non-adjustable shocks force them to stick with a "grippy" setup.
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Old 02-18-05, 05:03 PM
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Good Point Damon.
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Old 02-18-05, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
Valving changes are more subtle, but make all the difference when going from a relatively smooth surface, to a bumpy, or wet one. Regards, Carl
Damon, that sounds familiar
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Old 02-18-05, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheers!
Also, THEY ARE NOT ADJUSTABLE, just in case anyone was wondering. For me I don't mind, because I don't have enough track time to be testing and tuning thousands of laps judging if 1 click from the left is better then two clicks from the left etc... I just want to slap them on... play around with camber, and toe at the track and try to be competitive enough to win rookie of the year for time trial competition.
I would pass on a non-adjustable...
You'll find out their limitations really quick, if you want to be competitive.

I would opt for the Koni yellows.
They are reasonably priced for their performance.
Can be rebuilt...
Can be revalved...
Can be converted to independently double-adjustable if you get really good...

If you're worried about having too much adjustment on a shock when driving competitively, I would suggest taking up another hobby.
Seriously...



-Ted
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Old 02-18-05, 05:48 PM
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what good is an adjustable shock when I don't plan on changing spring rates at every event? Just merely changing the compression and rebound dampening doens't help you that much if you aren't changing your springs.

Ideally I would have 5 sets of springs, shocks that I can change both rebound and compression.... the list goes on and on.

Let's remember it's all too easy to be overwhelmed with doing this and doing that. What one should focus on is driving. It's the driver that wins, not the car at my level of competition.
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Old 02-19-05, 05:11 AM
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You need to do some research on why adjustable dampers are an advantage.
Mating dampers with spring rates is just one facet of suspension tuning.
You're missing a whole bunch of others.

In autocross, changing damping rates allows for fine-tuning of minor oversteer / understeer.


-Ted
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Old 02-19-05, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheers!
what good is an adjustable shock when I don't plan on changing spring rates at every event? Just merely changing the compression and rebound dampening doens't help you that much if you aren't changing your springs.
That's not true in my experience. Certainly the shock must be able to control the particular spring on the car but an adjustable shock allows you to manage how quickly the car will transition. Less grip demands a softer car. Ideally if it began to rain or something you'd make a spring change too but most likely you won't get time. The next best thing is to soften up the shocks (and the bars too. Just as big an advantage to have adjustable bars).

Shocks do two very important things. First, they keep the springs from oscillating and making the car "float". Second, they control the transition rate of the chassis. An adjustable shock allows you the ability to match the chassis to differing environments.

If you were at one track and had your non-adjustable shock tuned to "perfect" that settings would always be the same until something about the track surface changed. You could just as well build non-adjustable dampers with different valving for each condition and have the same solution but most find adjustable shocks more convenient.
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