mazdized

Yes Paul FD lovers believe FDs are just that unbeatable on the track until they need to be towed in after the motor or turbo blows.

mazdized

Quick note. Driving a 300+ HP car is much easier than 500+HP car on the track. Turbo 500HP is a handful to tame. On the road course how the power is laid down is more important than how much. Have fun with turbo lag while NA powered cars are pulling you.

mazdized

P.S. why not start out like Paul with a PS car first?

Cossie

Originally posted by Silkworm
but I doubt anyone in a loaded street FD is going to outbrake a lightweight FC

If we are talking abt Carl's FC, I dont know if we can call it light yet...there is a HUGE list of modifications...

Silkworms car is more track specific if you ask me, but I guess it's two different class of racing

My opinion is that since there is so much work done, why not brakes?
This is NOT a ligghtweight FC vs Piggie FD battle...

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

c'mon now, fd's and fc's have the same friggin brakes. fd's just have a little more rubber which can be compensated for by the fc with weight/tires/pads or even just a better driver. blah

You only have enough power when you leave rubber from the exit of one turn to the turn in of the next.

in2twins

Cossie, and I will let you guys know on the brake question
As for Pauls car being more track specific, it's really just the difference between a spec class car, and an Unlimited Class car. As far as "Race prep" my car will have every track oriented piece, and mod imaginable(needed). This car still has a long way to go(as Cossie pointed out), with alot of experimentation with the aero yet to come(splitters, canards, wings, diffusers, and an alternate quick connect low drag nose all coming). As far as brakes go, at my current power level they are sufficient, at ~500rwhp, I will need more. However, a Big brake upgrade is not cheap, and I want to do it right, so for now it will be stockers, w/XP pads, and BIG ducts. I need to buy tires and wheels next, and those are going to run me over 3 grand, so brakes will have to wait.
As far as handling a 500hp turbo car, I've track driven 700rwhp Supras a couple times, they are a handful, but not unmanageable. My daily driver has ~400rwhp, and will be well over 650 in a couple months.
To reply to the NA challenge, my car pulled a 2003 ZO6(experienced driver) coming off the corners at T'hill without a problem(not to mention I pulled him on the front straight along with an 03 996 twin turbo), that was at ~300rwhp and full weight. At ~500rwhp and ~2500lbs, I dont see any NA cars being close(someone is always faster), let alone pulling me. Plus there is always Race Logic TC if I can't learn to drive it.
In a nutshell I am building a fun fast car, and I am going to play, I know there are lots of faster drivers, and lots of faster cars, but I am in it for fun, nothing more. Please keep your thoughts coming on ways to make this car a more complete, and better track car, Regards, Carl

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

Z06 is cool but I was talking about SU that might have NA 400-HP cars. I am sure you can pull in the straight away. I am talking about exiting corners and come out with good throttle control. Plus I just don't see how you can keep 500HP turbo motor together on the track and be reliable like Porsches. So what track time did the 700Hp Supra laid down?

Silkworm

A-men Dave

No more ideas on having a better car, but let's get it out there!

PaulC
(Got Fenders? ugh)

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

Agreed! Seen many a FD towed home due to motor overheating, overpinging, or toast turbo.

"Why did my turbo spit oil into my intake manifold??"

Boy did they get pissed when my 1st gen 12a streetport dellorto carb and EP suspension and rollcage beat them. On 13" DotR's! I'd pull away on the turns and they'd try to catch up on the straights.

Boy was that fun!

These FD's I played with were usually very mildly modified. Exhaust and intake or intake and hoosier's you get the idea.

RX-7Impreza

sorry for injecting a useless opinion, but i made my best effort to photoshop that car and make it look good, but it is still FUGLY. but then again i like the stock look with real pretty engine work.

sorry,
Justin

Carl Byck

I love all you haters, see you at the track

RX-7Impreza

dont get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the work gone into that car, i just think it is fugly.

Justin

in2twins

Lukily it is in my garage(not yours), and you won't have to look at it
I know alot of guys don't care for it, but don't worry, I have the Tripoint nose as well, and it is being prepped, and matched to the flares at the same time, it will be painted at the same time, and when I eventually put the car in the wall, the car will get the nose it was born with
Later, Carl

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

Carl, what steering rack are you using?

Carl Byck

power rack from an 89 I believe. I may need to get a quick release wheel, as it is quite a squeeze getting in. I think I am going to use rubbermaid garbage cans for fender liners(classy huh ) Any cheaper choices than CCWs for wheels(1860) in a 17x12, and 17x11? I cannot believe the drag/downforce the undertray/splitter is generating, I can fell the nose dig in at 60mph + Need to find a bigger wing . My oil temps were 155-160, and water was 170, and Im not done with my cooling mods yet This sucka is a lot of work. I hope my Ghetto Aero works.......... I will need more power to push this beast for sure. Carl
BTW anyone familiar with the Simpson head restraint system(body harness that connects to helmet)?

TYSON

How do Forgelines compare for price?

Forgeline RS

T_Racer

iTrader: (1)

Carl, car sounds like a lot of fun. I run 16x 12 x 22.5 Hoosiers on a first gen, sticks very well with little to no real aero. but then again only running about 180-190 hp, 2250 with driver and fuel. We run 3 piece Real racing wheels. light, good piece, and strong so far, three years. Got them from Hoosier Tom with Mid-Atlantic Motorsports, IIRC. He can help you out with the tires and wheels. We have had good luck with the hoosiers and tire treatment to keep them soft. All year so far, 10-12 Solo IIs, solo I's two drivers at all events, and plenty of stick and tire left.
As far as your wing, check with the DSR guys. D Sports Racer that is. http://dsr.racer.net The forum has lots of good technical discussions. In particular, there was thread about a week ago, in the car building section about wings. There is a guy on there that will build one to your specs, or you can pick on out of stock sizes. (stock being stock on cars like Stohr, Radicals, Merloy, etc.) He quoted one guy $800.00 carbon honeycomb contruction wing. He said fiberglass was about $400.00. Just a thought. Not as bling bling as an Autozone APC aluminum Shogun ballistic wing, but this one works.

Travis

in2twins

Thanks Travis those are good leads. The rael racing wheels in my sizes are 500+/wheel . As for tires, I am nervous about 16s because of limited tire choices, in fact even the 17s are limiting me(18s seem to be what the pro teams are using, and therfore are the best deals sincet they seem to give away tires for pennies on the dollar). This is only because I hope to be able to use scrubs for awhile until I learn to drive(fast), and then go to "real race rubber" for races only.
Tyson The RS are right about the same as the CCWs price wise, and weight wise. I do like the 5 spoke look, I am looking around for someone with agood price on the Forgelines also(good call thanks).
As an aside, I had a brainstorm this morning. I have been wanting to put a much bigger IC in the car(old style HKS right now), but was concerned about flow to the radiator. I think I have solved the problem, since I have the two huge side ducts on the nose, and a sealed flat bottom all the way to the front cross member, I am thinking I will direct all the air(except for brake ducts) from the side ducts to behind the IC, and directly to the radiator, and the oil coolers. Basicly air comes in the main opening, through the IC>radiator>out reverse cowl hood. Side duct air>behind IC>radiator/oil coolers>out hood. Hard to explain, but I think it will work well . Anyone with more ideas, keep them coming, it really helps. Regards, Carl

in2twins

Travis, I searched that site thoroughly, and cannot find the wing vendor, I am very iterested, can you give me a little more direction? Thanks, Carl

T_Racer

iTrader: (1)

Maybe Real is the wrong name, I can't remember right now. I will find out tonight and get the name for you. I only say this because they were they were only 350-375 per wheel, IIRC. Good contruction, though a very slight touch wobble laterally. Causes no vibraton, but if you put a mic on the outside bead you can meaure a touch of wobble.
I totally forgot about takeoffs for the tires. that is true. Though I would imagine that mounting them would necessitate some modifications to accomodate, though this is probably to be expected. We had to notch the frame in front and weld the walls back in to rebox the fram to gain the clearance for the tire to clear.
But I have to say, large wheel and tire combos do look tough on these cars, no matter the generation. ( proper race wheel/tire look, not 22" 60lb chrome uglies with rubber bands on some blinged out third gen.) There is us and a TII running really fat tires. We are running 16 X 12's and get a lot of looks from people seeing the car from behind. IT IS a LOT of meat on the road. The TII has a beautiful widebody kit on it, and CCW's, black mesh with polished lip, 335/40/18 DOT's rear and 295/45/17 fts. IIRC Car looks sweet. Looks really nice.

Travis

T_Racer

iTrader: (1)

Carl, here is the guy and his comment. His company is APK development.

Quote from Alex on DSR website:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

I was asked to show a pricing list for composite wings and other parts as this is what individuals were expecting to see when visiting www.apk-developments.com However, a page describing this service has not been made yet. I would like to take a number of photos and put together the details before doing that.

I qouted two individuals so far, one wants a carbon wing ($700) for a Stohr, and the other wants a carbon wing and wing uprights ($850) for their Radical.
The wings qouted above will have an internal structure, with skins applied over it. The skins will have that deep gloss look showing the carbon weave. This type of wing can also be made from fiberglass for about $400

Foam core wings can also be done, and would typically cost $300 in fiberglass. $400 in carbon.
These prices include S&H. Prices may vary with each situation, like multi-element wings...

The specs/drawings needed are:
-Airfoil (Name and chord length would be perfect, but an accurate trace is just as good)
-Span
-Wingtip drawing (Where the holes get located for the end plate bolts, also note the bolt thread size)
-Gurney flap
-Wing mount
-End plate
-Anything else that would be useful

If you are interested, you may contact me at alex@apk-developments.com

Thank you,
Alex

Hope this helps. Also, if you have some time, dig around the DSR website. There are a lot of everday engineers, as well as professional engineers and car and engine builders. Ben Beaseley(sp?) is a regular contributor and a big Rotary CSR guy. But there are also great topics on suspension, aero, tire stuff. Someone on there can answer any question you might have, from formulas for camber curves, roll centers, instant centers, front or rear aero, etc. If you are into the mechanical side of racing as well, as I am, this is a great way to waste some time.

Travis

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

Hey Carl, what type of intercooler set-up are you going to be running, FMIC I presume?
And since the hood area on the RX7 is a low pressure area, maybe you could put some brake vents on the tops of the fenders like many purpose built race-cars do.

in2twins

From What I understand the louvres on the fenders are primarily for creating downforce. This is how it works(from what I've read) The tire acts like a fan forcing air out of the lovres, creating a low pressure area, and thus down force. At the same time you are eliminating much of the lift that the spinning tires would otherwise be generating. These louvres also create a certain amount of drag. The amount of lift/drag, and downforce can be changed by the shape, placement, and open area of the louvres. The DSR site mentioned above goes into extreme detail on this, and other aero theories, I'm just spouting generalities, which I will use through trial and error to try to make a better car. I'm sure there are many engineers grimacing at my explanations, and many nay sayers wondering if this thing will ever see pavement, but as I said before, That's just fine with me, I'm just having fun Carl

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

I just read you IC posts on the other fourm, have you though about mounting the IC and Rad differently, like a V-Mount or H-Mount or something?

in2twins

I do not think I will need to, as long as I provide enough venting through the hood, I think my design is better than any, except for the JGTC Toms Supra design,where the Radiator is the front of the box, and the IC is the top, with no hood above the IC, and the remainder of the box being Carbon fiber contoured to promote air flow. I dont have the room to do that, but I think mine will be awesome. As it is I have zero cooling issues.