hello to all the racers, I got two questions need you help please: a) how I can find out what factory options my 89GTUs came with? call Mazda with my car's VIN# ?needed for SCCA SoloII stock rule. bought the car with AC but last owner did not know whether the AC is factory installed option or dealer installed option b) I know Toyota genII MR2 allowed to use crash bolts to gain neg camber duo to Toyota service bulletin said dealer can use these bolts to correct alignment for non-competition purpose, does Mazda service bulletin mention similar method of correcting an alignment?
thanks

E-Stock

 

I don't know the answer for sure to either of yoru quetsions.
That being said, I'm curious why you are worried about your AC. I'd be REALLY surprised if anyone locally or even regionally would protest you for ADDING AC.

I've never heard anything about a legal way to use anything other than the OEM bolts ot gain any camber.

Cory Waters
86 GXL 2+2
Atlanta Region SoloII

 

thanks for your respone Cory.
Actually, I want to REMOVE the AC to reduce front-heavy.(my wishful thinking is that removed AC will shave off 25-30 lbs of weight)
OEM bolts best get me max 0.5 degree negative front camber. The car pushes after turn-in as well as in tight hairpin/180. the car works fine in salomn, with LOTs of pre-turning.

 

Removing any factory installed components other than the spare tire and the floor mats is NOT allowed in stock class. Same thing goes for replacing bolts and/or mounting points in the suspension. If it's not OEM, it's not allowed. Unless you want to compete in ESP without all the power adders. Only 4 things you're allowed to do in stock class: 1) shocks, 2) front sway bar, 3) tires, and 4)wheels long as they're the same diameter and width as the OEM wheels.

-0.5 degrees camber is okay for a stock competitor. Especially in ES, where most of your competition is FWD. Plus, turn-in is affected more by toe-out. If you want the car to turn faster, set your alignment to a toe-out (negative toe) setting. And as far as your car pushing too much in hairpins and tight turns .... it's because you're coming in too fast. If it feels painfully slow, then you're on the right track. One of our resident super-fast guys says that anybody can go fast; it's learning where to go slow that you pick up the most time.

 

Wouldn't he be in CSP with mods?

 

Yes, that is correct. He would be CSP with mods .... my bad.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redrotorR1
[B]Removing any factory installed components other than the spare tire and the floor mats is NOT allowed in stock class."
Yes, you are correct. That is why I would like to find out whether my car's AC is factory installed on the assembly line or dealer installed. I know I can take the AC off IF it is installed in a dealer.

" Same thing goes for replacing bolts and/or mounting points in the suspension. If it's not OEM, it's not allowed. "
Yes, you are correct here too. The reason I mentioned Gen II MR2 n/a which dominated the ES(used to be CS) is because MR2 allowed to use a factory authorized crash bolts to gain neg camber in the front. This is a big advantage in ES grant by Toyota. MR2s are getting -2.5 camber at front and a stock -1.8 rear camber which is the Maxinum factory allowance)(by the way, I also own a 92 mr2 turbo.)

"Unless you want to compete in ESP without all the power adders. Only 4 things you're allowed to do in stock class: 1) shocks, 2) front sway bar, 3) tires, and 4)wheels long as they're the same diameter and width as the OEM wheels."
very well said.

"-0.5 degrees camber is okay for a stock competitor."
I have to disagree with you on this one.

"Especially in ES, where most of your competition is FWD. "
Hmm, if you look at the result from last few years' Nats result in ES, I have not seem any FWD up there in the top 10, yet.

"Plus, turn-in is affected more by toe-out. If you want the car to turn faster, set your alignment to a toe-out (negative toe) setting."
I could not agree more. I do not have a turn in problem. It is after the turn-in.

" And as far as your car pushing too much in hairpins and tight turns .... it's because you're coming in too fast."
Maybe. That is another topic for another day.

"If it feels painfully slow, then you're on the right track."
yes, yes ,yes. that how it supose to fell like when doing a tight G circle exercise. ( it is slow if you look into it in mathmatically)

"One of our resident super-fast guys says that anybody can go fast; it's learning where to go slow that you pick up the most time. "
Yes, he is so right!! Yep,we can pick up more time in a slow corner than a fast one.

 

Crash bolts are legal in any class as long as they are endorsed by the manufacturer in repairing crash damage.

As for the push, you didn't mention if you are running shocks or an aftermarket front bar. Both of these are extremely useful tools in setting your car up.

And to split hairs with redrotorR1 aftermarket wheels must be stock width and diameter and have an offset within 1/4" of factory. That means you can vary your track plus or minus half an inch at each end of the car, a useful amount.

 

Originally posted by Ben Liang

Quote:

I know I can take the AC off IF it is installed in a dealer.

Are you sure about this? I don't have my rule book handy.

 

Camber-wise, F-bodies do pretty well with only 0.5 degree of adjustment ... and, generally speaking, a lot more weight and momentum coming into a corner. I really don't want to start a slip-angle discussion, but camber isn't the only way to gain more grip. Faster corners are all about your suspension tuning.

I also have to ask about the AC. I'm not sure if this is the rule you're referring to:

Option package conversions may be performed between specific vehicles of a particular make and model, but only between configurations from within a particular model year. Such conversions must be totally complete and the resultant car must meet all requirements of this section.

.. but I don't think it allows you to just simply remove the AC. There's a lot more verbage after that, but the general jist of it is: if the rulebook doesn't say you can do it, then you can't.

 

I am referring to this statement in the solo II rule book:

“Stock Category cars must be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as defined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual parts, but to combinations there of which would have been ordered together on a specific car. Any other modifications or equipment will place the car in Street Prepared, Prepared or Modified Categories as appropriate.”

and also to this:

"12.4 standard Part
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through a dealer in the United States. Dealer-installed options or deletions, except as required by factory directives, no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts. "

my assumption was that if my car's AC was installed by a Mazda dealer, Not on the factory production line, then it is Not a standard equipment, therefore I can run without the AC.
thanks

 

Well, if you're lucky .... sure. Make sure you have all the documents to support that, if you're able to make such a deletion. Protest rules state that you are responsible for proving that the modification was dealer-installed.

 

again, thanks for your support and comments redrotorR1.
yes I am awear this responsiblity. My intension at the beginning was how can I able to obtain an official document from Mazda to support such deletion. fellow racers, any idea?
thanks everyone.

Ben

 

find out where your car was first registered (carfax?) or what dealer sold it (from Mazda USA?) and see if they have records 15 years old? OR Mazda might have build information for VIN numbers...wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

thank you Cory!

I'll call the original dealer first and then Mazda USA. hope things will go smoothly.



Ben