Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

S2000 moved up to AS, why not move FD?

Old 01-14-04, 01:48 AM
  #1  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
S2000 moved up to AS, why not move FD?

I see the SCCA is moving the new Honda S2000 into AS, as well as the old S2000 and the Boxster for 2005. Said they needed to provide more "variety of competition" in the class. What with the new Corvette C6 putting out 400 hp in the base model - and slightly smaller and tighter, SS will be even more of a Vette spec class; but think of the "variety of competition" AS would be with FD's, the Hondas, Boxsters, Mistubishi's, Subie WRX's, and the old C4's. It could actually turn into Solo II's premier class. If only they could get over their prejudices against Mazdas and move us down a class.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 01-14-04, 02:33 AM
  #2  
Rotary Enthusiast
10 Year Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What they should do is let people adjust boost on the FD to be able to compete with C5 & C6, and keep it in the exclusive class of SS or ASP.
reza is offline  
Old 01-14-04, 02:44 AM
  #3  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: S2000 moved up to AS, why not move FD?

Originally posted by RenoCYM
I see the SCCA is moving the new Honda S2000 into AS, as well as the old S2000 and the Boxster for 2005. Said they needed to provide more "variety of competition" in the class. What with the new Corvette C6 putting out 400 hp in the base model - and slightly smaller and tighter, SS will be even more of a Vette spec class; but think of the "variety of competition" AS would be with FD's, the Hondas, Boxsters, Mistubishi's, Subie WRX's, and the old C4's. It could actually turn into Solo II's premier class. If only they could get over their prejudices against Mazdas and move us down a class.
The argument behind the current decision is that the S2000 is awfully fast for BS. The '04 S2000 is even faster, by all indications, and should give AS C4's a run for their money (if not run over them). The 3rd gen RX-7 would be a good fit for the new projected class, but it has the potential to become the dominant car ...... again. The FD dominated AS from '92-'95 before it was bumped to SS .... and was dominant from '96-'99. So, some of the SEB comment is that the 3rd gen RX-7 has "had its time in the sun", so to speak.

The other part of the SEB comment is that the RX-7 is a much older, expensive-to-maintain, and relatively-hard-to-find car. (You ever try finding a completely bone stock FD? Not easy.) Is this what the SCCA wants to become THE car to have in AS? Probably not.
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 01-14-04, 07:12 PM
  #4  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Do you suppose, if the S2000 does come to dominate AS for a couple of years they'll move it up to SS? And I think that you are right: the FD is expensive to maintain, hard to find (although my '93 R1 is completely stock save a set of Koni shocks, I even run the OEM air filter) in SS condition, and is old tech. By that same arguement, I don't think it would become the car to have, as the new competition is just to tough, fast, and high tech. And we're probably talking about - what - maybe less than a hundred FDs that are still competing in SS? I'm still going to be a burr under the SEB's saddle until I can get them to at least put the idea out to the membership for discussion.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 01-14-04, 10:06 PM
  #5  
Full Member
10 Year Member
 
tpdrx7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As one of the 'hundred SS FD's' I have to agree that it would be a welcome change to actually be in a class where I could truly be competitive.

The other problem is actually drumming up any competition at all. I ran 12 events in NC last year, half of them uncontested. In my local events, I had more FD's and Porsche Turbos than C5's or Z06's combined. It seems that the 'vettes in the southest only run at ProSolos, Divisionals and Nationals.

I think it would be great to be in a class that just based on the range of cars included should create at least a minumum turnout.

One thing is for sure, if we have any chance of getting this changed - and I'm afraid there is no chance - we need to take RenoCYM's advice and contact Doug Gill early and often.

Tomas
'94 SS #142
tpdrx7 is offline  
Old 01-15-04, 06:07 PM
  #6  
PV = nRT
5 Year Member
 
clayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Zealand (was California)
Posts: 2,251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by reza
What they should do is let people adjust boost on the FD to be able to compete with C5 & C6, and keep it in the exclusive class of SS or ASP.
Welcome to Honda 1986 F1 1500 cc @ 58 psi --> 996 hp.

Following: turbos banned.

clayne is offline  
Old 01-15-04, 06:09 PM
  #7  
PV = nRT
5 Year Member
 
clayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Zealand (was California)
Posts: 2,251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I see SCCA is just as lame as always.
clayne is offline  
Old 04-21-04, 05:02 PM
  #8  
EX Pres of DFW Drunks
10 Year Member
 
rx7gslse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: DFW, TX/Mexico
Posts: 8,132
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
FYI, they considered it and it got mentioned in teh FASTRACK this month under "member items not reccomended"

http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...6-fastrack.pdf
rx7gslse is offline  
Old 04-22-04, 02:12 AM
  #9  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Screwed again, I guess. There are just too many "good ol' Corvette boys" on the SEB. But, I'm a member and I'm going to whine and stomp my feet all season, an email a week is an easy thing to do!
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 04-22-04, 09:50 AM
  #10  
DFW Drunk by Proxy
10 Year Member
 
Umrswimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Valley Ranch, Tx
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ok, let me get this straight: you guys are sick of getting beat in SS, so you want to move down to AS so you can dominate? Imagine how the Boxster S and S2000 guys feel about that...
I imagine the SCCA classes will get completely revamped once the 2006 Z06 comes out. 500 HP and a lighter, more nimble C6 chassis... That will be a difficult car to beat and will set the benchmark in SS. They'll have to move the C5 and FD into a new class...
Umrswimr is offline  
Old 04-22-04, 09:58 AM
  #11  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Umrswimr

I imagine the SCCA classes will get completely revamped once the 2006 Z06 comes out...
Not necessarily. SCCA has always had the Stock Exclusion List. Maybe that list will just get a little longer...
DamonB is offline  
Old 04-22-04, 01:52 PM
  #12  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can't see the SCCA ever excluding a Corvette, certainly not one that most of the current SS drivers will have the day after they become available. Besides, GMC provides way too much advertising and support dollars. I, too, hope they will just move the C 5s, the BMW Ms, and us down to AS. and then they'll have a "Super Corvette" class with the Z 06s both past and present and the C 6. But, then you never know - I wonder when was the last time a Porshe 930 showed up at Nationals, and it's still classed SS.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 04-22-04, 02:12 PM
  #13  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Umrswimr; I don't think the FD would dominate at all in AS, just be competitive. I don't know what it's like in your region, but here the Honda S2000s and Porsche Boxster Ss run times just a few ticks off the Z06s in SS, and we have a couple of Mitsu Evos that run as fast as the slow Corvettes; and all of last year I would have finished first only twice in AS - out of 21 events- with my times. Granted I'm not the best driver in the region, but I'm usually in the top 35% of the raw times.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 04-23-04, 01:43 PM
  #14  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by RenoCYM
I can't see the SCCA ever excluding a Corvette, certainly not one that most of the current SS drivers will have the day after they become available. Besides, GMC provides way too much advertising and support dollars. I, too, hope they will just move the C 5s, the BMW Ms, and us down to AS. and then they'll have a "Super Corvette" class with the Z 06s both past and present and the C 6. But, then you never know - I wonder when was the last time a Porshe 930 showed up at Nationals, and it's still classed SS.
The SEB had their chance to exclude the Z06 back in 2000. It was made very apparent at one of the ProSolos that the Z06 would be a class killer ... yet, nobody wanted to exclude it to ASP-land. Considering what it takes to maintain an FD, what it costs to buy a Boxster S, and how much better the Z06 is than a regular Z51 C5 .... are you surprised? Think about how many of the top SS drivers had an RX-7 that they maintained and competed/dominated in for 7-8 years .... I was happy to not be turning a wrench on my FD after 2 years!

Contrary to popular believe, GM does not support the SCCA with funding. They may sponsor a couple races, but that in no way leads to preferential (is that a word?) treatment with regard to classing. Solo II classing is a member-driven decision. If you don't like what's going on, speak up! Make your voice heard ... post on boards other than just the RX-7 forum. And .. not to criticize ... but how many FD owners actually show up at regular auto-xes? In my two year campaign, I ran into 3 total. In SS ... 2 total. Not really the tidal wave of influence there.

But .... in the very near future, I'm guessing there will have to be a huge re-organization of the SS-AS-BS clusterfuck. When Kumho, Hoosier, and maybe Avon start releasing 19" R-compounds ... it will be all over. Vipers and the new C6 Z06 will mop the floor with all the other SS also-rans. Just a matter of time.

-Don
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 04-26-04, 11:26 AM
  #15  
Full Member
10 Year Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Royal Oak, Mi
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was talking to one of the SEB members about the RX7 this past weekend. It turns out that it's just myself and one other person who have been sending them letters. With only two people putting up the fight, it's no wonder we're not getting anywhere. It's us against the Corvette owners and I'm sure there are more than two of them writing in.

However if the S2000 starts to dominate AS, then there is a chance that the move could happen for the RX7. The Corvette guys don't care if they lose to an S2000 or a RX7.

So start writing letters. [email protected]
Alex is offline  
Old 04-26-04, 01:17 PM
  #16  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've been sending emails at the rate of one a month, Doug Gill must think I'm a spammer. And I also post on the SCCA site in their Stock Catagory Forum. And Redrotor, it's true there just aren't enough of us, I've been autoxing for 4 years here in Reno and I've only seen other FD's show up twice, and they were both in ASP. I feel like that Japanese race horse than never wins, but keeps racing anyway. This last weekend SS consisted of 4 Z-06s, a 2001 C-5, and me. I beat the C-5, but the Zs were just too much. So just like the Porsche 930 and other relics that get left in classes because no one drives them much anymore, we may be stuck until 2006 when, as everyone seems to believe, the C-6 Corvettes will cause a major change in the top 3 stock classes; although it could come in 05 as the new C-6s are supposed to be available late this year.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 04-26-04, 11:06 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Jims5543's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Jensen Beach, Fl
Posts: 345
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by RenoCYM
I've been sending emails at the rate of one a month, Doug Gill must think I'm a spammer. And I also post on the SCCA site in their Stock Catagory Forum. And Redrotor, it's true there just aren't enough of us, I've been autoxing for 4 years here in Reno and I've only seen other FD's show up twice, and they were both in ASP. I feel like that Japanese race horse than never wins, but keeps racing anyway. This last weekend SS consisted of 4 Z-06s, a 2001 C-5, and me. I beat the C-5, but the Zs were just too much. So just like the Porsche 930 and other relics that get left in classes because no one drives them much anymore, we may be stuck until 2006 when, as everyone seems to believe, the C-6 Corvettes will cause a major change in the top 3 stock classes; although it could come in 05 as the new C-6s are supposed to be available late this year.
This is exactly why I lost interest in the SCCA Solo2.

I was building a killer BP 2nd gen then because O'bleans was killing the Vettes the SCCA decided to *** weight to the FC and drop weight from the Vette. It became apparent that my street TII was only about 150 lbs overweight for the class. So why build a car? I can run my full interiored TII in in B-Prepared against tubbed out 944's and Vettes.

I threw my hands up in discust - junked the FC and just play with open track days. Never looked back.

Since the day I started Autocrossing 2 years ago I was frustrated. I was not allowed boost control in ASP so my HP was limited to a measly 250. I decided to get away from ASP and go to BP where at least I could be competative. An bam!! Weight penalties. Bah!

Last edited by Jims5543; 04-26-04 at 11:11 PM.
Jims5543 is offline  
Old 04-27-04, 02:39 AM
  #18  
Full Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
RenoCYM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The SCCA can be very frustrating to work with, unless you drive a Corvette or Subaru.
RenoCYM is offline  
Old 04-27-04, 06:18 AM
  #19  
omgwtfposlol
10 Year Member
 
particleeffect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange City, FL
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
where will the new EVO go i wonder (the MR)? i don't follow AutoX that much but it seems like in the stock classes it would walk all over s2k's.
particleeffect is offline  
Old 04-27-04, 03:02 PM
  #20  
DFW Drunk by Proxy
10 Year Member
 
Umrswimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Valley Ranch, Tx
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DamonB
Not necessarily. SCCA has always had the Stock Exclusion List. Maybe that list will just get a little longer...
Possible, but not likely. I would bet that they will just fix the stock classification system and the new SS class will be: C6, C5 Z06, 996T, new SRT Viper, and possibly Lotus Elise.
AS will be- current SS cars plus perhaps the Elise, the Boxster S, and '04 S2000. Everything else will shift down. I believe the FD is probably competitive with the C5 and the AS class will be a good fight.

The main difference between the Z51 and Z06 cars is twofold: 1) The Z06 can run 275/315 tires STOCK. That's what I'm running in ASP and let me tell you- it makes a HUGE difference over the 245/275's.
2) The Z06 has the power advantage which isn't gigantic, but the GEARING makes it a completely unfair fight.
Put the two together, and it's impossible for my C5 to compete.
I would love to see the Z06 out of the SS class so the FD's and C5's could fight it out. Then again, I said "F it" and went ASP. Now it matters a lot less if it's a C5 or Z06- we can finally both run the same tires.

Last edited by Umrswimr; 04-27-04 at 03:15 PM.
Umrswimr is offline  
Old 04-28-04, 12:42 PM
  #21  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by particleeffect
where will the new EVO go i wonder (the MR)? i don't follow AutoX that much but it seems like in the stock classes it would walk all over s2k's.
I wouldn't count on it. The MR is a lighter, slightly more powerful version. They still haven't fixed the problems that keeps the regular Evo from contending ... high CG, front heavy weight distribution, open front diff. And as far as '04 results show, C4's are still the car to beat in AS.

One other point to the original intent of this thread, the proposal of bumping all the S2000's into AS in '05 is just that ... a proposal. It's still up for member comment. With enough support, that proposal could also involve dropping the FD into AS as well.

-Don (who no longer has a dog in this fight)
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 04-28-04, 07:40 PM
  #22  
omgwtfposlol
10 Year Member
 
particleeffect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange City, FL
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
i guess we'll have to wait to see how the new evo does but it does pull a .98 on a skidpad with the aid of the AYC and ACD systems. they also do really well to keep the car from understearing and oversteering too much.
particleeffect is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Robrods64
New Member RX-7 Technical
6
10-02-15 07:56 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: S2000 moved up to AS, why not move FD?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: