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Roll bar/cage q's

Old 01-30-04, 10:56 PM
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Roll bar/cage q's

I am in the market for a roll bar/cage, and I have a few questions on what is SCCA, NASA, race approved. I know you can have a bolt in roll cage/bar, but can the individual bars be bolt in/on? Like the horizontal and diagonal cross bars for the rear, and side bars that fall on an angle to the driver and passenger?

This might help better, take the Autopower street roll bar, and add the horizontal and diagonal cross bars, then add a bar on driver and passenger side, with those 4 bars being able to be bolted and unbolted to the main hoop (autopower street roll bar). Is that legal? or do they need (all or some) to be welded together?
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Old 01-31-04, 07:32 AM
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First off what do you plan to do with this car? Second its not a great idea to race a street car. If you want to race build a race car you'll be kicking yourself down the road when you realize that the compromises you made to drive the car on the street are what's keeping you from winning races. BTW I build cages and would be happy to build you one that would be legal for any SCCA class.
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Old 01-31-04, 07:35 AM
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The other pieces can be bolted together. On the Autopower full bolt-ins, the main hoop has a diagonal cross brace from it's lower right to upper left, then 6-7 stickie-outie-things (technical term) for door bars, front hoops, and rear feet. Except for the rear feet, the SOT's are the same size as the bar being bolted on, and a collar goes around the bar and the SOT and gets bolted to each.

HTH.
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Old 01-31-04, 12:25 PM
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EProdRX7, I am not actually looking to race the car in a series, other than open track days, club events, and maybe drifting. Basically I want it for added protection, but I would like to make sure it will pass the stanadards for the rest. And if need be remove the bars for street driving.

The other pieces can be bolted together. On the Autopower full bolt-ins, the main hoop has a diagonal cross brace from it's lower right to upper left, then 6-7 stickie-outie-things (technical term) for door bars, front hoops, and rear feet. Except for the rear feet, the SOT's are the same size as the bar being bolted on, and a collar goes around the bar and the SOT and gets bolted to each.
So they have everything welded onto the main hoop, to expand it?
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Old 01-31-04, 04:02 PM
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I would suggest that you get together with some one that has put a cage in a street car and ask if you could drive it around for a week. Simply put in a street car a cage is a pure PIA! As you might guess I'm not a huge fan of bolt in cages. IMHO I think they offer little protection. BTW just wait till your girlfriend/wife bangs her head on it, watch out...
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Old 01-31-04, 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by eyecandy
So they have everything welded onto the main hoop, to expand it?
The rear hoop is the main part of the cage, then you have three door bars (two driver, one passenger) and two front hoops bolt to it. In this picture:
http://www.taylor-racing.net/cars/drivers-side.jpg
If you look at the top door bar there, to the right, you can see the collar that is bolted to the stickie-outie-thing on the rear hoop. You can also see it in the distance for the passenger bar.

This picture:
http://www.taylor-racing.net/cars/drivers-side-rear.jpg
Is a little better, and you can see the rear hoop.

I'll have to agree with John, though. Cages in street cars are a pain in the ***. I drove this car on the street for about 6 months, and I hated nearly every minute of it. Thankfully I was getting ready to paint it and didn't have any numbers on it, or I'd have been really pissed off with all the mAd-tYTe ricers trying to race me.

With that said, I've seen plenty of good applications of roll bars (not cages) in street cars. Of course, there's always a chance that in a wreck on the street the bar will do more harm than good. With no back seat, it isn't as much of an issue, but you'll still want to make damn sure you've got padding on every square inch of tubing that you can easily come into contact with.

EDIT: Forgot to throw in my stance on bolt-in cages. If it's required for your series (like it is in Spec7) then bolt-in cages are okay. If it's up to you, WELD IT IN! I've seen more injuries from bolt-in cages than defective safety gear, and know a guy that runs around in a wheelchair thanks to a bolt-in cage punching through the floorboards and breaking his back.
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Old 01-31-04, 10:14 PM
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Ok thanks for all the help, I guess I just didn't make it that clear, I am manily looking for a roll bar, like the autopower race roll bar w/options, but my other idea is this: clicky the one I would be interested in from there is the 8point roll bar. And I was speaking with a gentlemen there and he said I would not have to weld in the 2 rear pieces that attach near the trans/drivesahft tunnel.

That is basically the extent of the roll bar that I would be looking to have in the car. A friend has one of those and the side bars extent alittle past the seats, so there is just a little hump you have to get over, which I am fine with that.

Also I would prefer a bolt in because of being able to remove it if the time would come. I know it would prolly not save my life if I were to get into a serious accident, but atleast it may help in the event of a rollover, plus it will make the chassis more rigid. It either that or the Mazdaspeed rear strut bar that runs about $240, so I would rather put in another $100-200 for a roll bar.

BTW, I am single so the only person that would have to bitch and moan would be my mother or father
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Old 01-31-04, 11:31 PM
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At least weld in some 3/16" plates under the feet. The Japanese aren't known for their high-quality steel...
Originally posted by eyecandy
clicky
Does anyone else think the cages look photochopped?
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Old 02-01-04, 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by christaylor
Does anyone else think the cages look photochopped?
They would have to be unless the picture was taken with the bar on top of a huge yellow sheet of paper

I've not been in a wreck with either bar but I've heard only negative things from those with bolt-in bar experience, just as another word of caution.

Good luck!

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Old 02-01-04, 09:12 AM
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At least weld in some 3/16" plates under the feet. The Japanese aren't known for their high-quality steel...
I would weld probably weld the backing plates that go on the underside, and probably make it altreast a 8"x8" piece, hopefully it would sit fine, I have not looked under the car for a while.

So whats the big problem with the bolt-in roll bars? Are people not using adequate bolts and backing plates?
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Old 02-01-04, 12:39 PM
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My problem with bolt in roll bars is that they sit on the floor pan, rather than back on the subframe box, where the structure is a hell of a lot stronger. Even welding in some pads (which is worlds better than those puny *** backing plates they ususally use) isn't near as strong as a welded bar right to the subframe.

I would also expect to lose some leg room with the bar on the floor pan. Could be a problem for a tall dude.

Looking at the pics you sent us, those bars won't be legal if you ever do decide to go racing. There's no main hoop diagonal for one thing. The tubing sizes are also much thicker than SCCA/NASA regulations, not an issue there but more weight.

Also, those bars you linked to are weld together kits..

And if you're going to weld in plates, why not just get a bar welded in from the getgo? Do it right from the beginning. If you Have to have door bars, you can get swingout versions.

PaulC

Last edited by Silkworm; 02-01-04 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 02-01-04, 05:10 PM
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Paul - that's why I weld in plates like this:

On all my cars. Ties the cage in with the rear frame, and gives a little more side protection in the event of a T-bone. The piece with the three holes is on the floor, the piece on the top of the picture is actually vertical, welded to the rear frame member, and the piece on the right is welded to the rocker piece that runs under the door (this is on a first gen).
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Old 02-02-04, 07:06 AM
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E-prod, where are you located in CT? What kind of prices do you usually charge for this kind of thing, and how much experience do you have doing it?
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Old 02-02-04, 12:26 PM
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Agreed that your setup is much better than the sandwiched plates of a bolt in style cage, but if you're willing to weld to the car, why not just weld the whole thing anyway (unless of course, you have rules on what cage you use)

PaulC
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Old 02-02-04, 06:12 PM
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Just an installation suggestion.

Be sure you check underneath everything before drilling your mounting holes. There are lots of wires that you don't want to drill thru.
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Old 02-02-04, 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Silkworm
Agreed that your setup is much better than the sandwiched plates of a bolt in style cage, but if you're willing to weld to the car, why not just weld the whole thing anyway (unless of course, you have rules on what cage you use)
For resale, I would guess. A plate can be covered with carpet, while a welded in cage cannot. Otherwise, I agree, a welded in cage is much better.
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Old 02-02-04, 08:53 PM
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TheTwinTurboRX-7,
I'm in Stratford and I do all my work from my shop at home. I don't do a ton of cages but I like to concentrate on quality over quantity. Also its not the only thing I do. If you attend a SCCA race at LimeRock most likely over 50% of the ITS field will have my cages in them. Sorry to say it but that would include more BMW's then Mazdas. Depending on the car the prices range from $1500 for a spec Miata up to $3000+ for an EP car like mine. I've been doing cages for about ten years and have done everything from an Abarth Porsche (est. value $500,000) to my buddies ITB Rabbit. Next project is an RX8 for T2. Should be in at the end of the month.
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Old 02-11-04, 03:38 PM
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7s Only Racing

Here are some pix of the cage I run in my '83. It's from 7s Only Racing in Buttonwillow, CA. They'll do the install or UPS it to you as a kit. It is absolutely first class, very beefy, and has confidence-inspiring NASCAR-style door bars.

Check them out at www.sevensonly.com.

Tell 'em Big Bird sent ya!




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