Road racing coolant temps for turbo cars
08-09-03, 02:00 AM
#26
Mad Man
First, Fritz is wacked, do not listen to him unless you want a new motor
Next, you need to remove everything betweenthe radiator and the front of the car. Next, you need a radiator panel(top). Optimally some shrouding on the sides of the radiator. Next, WHEN you track your car, remove the rear bolts from the hood hinge, and place some sort of bumper there to hold it up ~1.5-2". Last add a second stock oil cooler. ALL the temps you guys are talking about are too high, It only takes one episode like MR zumzums to kill a motor. even of it does not fail right away, the O rings are beginning to harden, and crack at those temps.
I have been through alot of motors in ten years of racing, everyone has failed do to heat eventually. My temps on the street with my set-up are 150 oil, and 175-80 water. The water goes up a little when I road race, and then the oil takes over. Right now my system is balanced (water=oil) if your is not balanced, you can increase your attention on the higher temp until they are equal. DO NOT trust, or even look at the stock water temp gauge, by the time it reads HOT, you are in serious trouble. I may be overly cautious, but my next engine will blow up because the plates cannot handle the power
Next, you need to remove everything betweenthe radiator and the front of the car. Next, you need a radiator panel(top). Optimally some shrouding on the sides of the radiator. Next, WHEN you track your car, remove the rear bolts from the hood hinge, and place some sort of bumper there to hold it up ~1.5-2". Last add a second stock oil cooler. ALL the temps you guys are talking about are too high, It only takes one episode like MR zumzums to kill a motor. even of it does not fail right away, the O rings are beginning to harden, and crack at those temps.I have been through alot of motors in ten years of racing, everyone has failed do to heat eventually. My temps on the street with my set-up are 150 oil, and 175-80 water. The water goes up a little when I road race, and then the oil takes over. Right now my system is balanced (water=oil) if your is not balanced, you can increase your attention on the higher temp until they are equal. DO NOT trust, or even look at the stock water temp gauge, by the time it reads HOT, you are in serious trouble. I may be overly cautious, but my next engine will blow up because the plates cannot handle the power
08-09-03, 07:28 AM
#27
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Well, all I know is that I feel pretty good about my 207-212 temps the more I read your responses. I do remember spiking to like 215 or 216 a couple of times but then I would back off a little and it would come right down. I'm thinking my temps might be related to my mods, nothing drastic has been done to my engine performance wise so maybe that's why my temps are OK..........other than a slightly modified intake, Kand N filter, dp, and RB catback, my engine's pretty stock. Oops, lightweight flywheel also. Also maybe I'm not driving hard enough, but am driving as hard as I can within my skill level, and out of 60 cars I was only being passed by 3 all day (and I do mean all day), and they were Porsche GT3's, so I don't feel too bad. The way I figure, I've got about 20K in my car, they have 150K in theirs; I run 2:48's, they run 2:38's...........Life is good. The only thing I could have been doing "harder" was winding the gears further into redline, but there's a direct correlation of RPM's/boost and water temps, so I tend to shift a little earlier to keep temps down. We had three crashes that day; a brand new 350Z wrapped up in the wall in turn 1 (crappy driver driving over his head), a race camaro that was TOTALLED in turn 1 and someone else, I forget who and what happened. I like my car too much to bend it, so I'll sacrifice a teeny bit of lap time for safety and car preservation anyday.
Interesting point on propping up the rear of the hood. No one else mentioned that one...........Whenever the checkered flag came out (end of session) I would pop my hood latch which raises the front of the hood an inch or so............it seems to drop the temps substantially quickly, but I guess I can't run hard with it that way; might get kinda ugly if the safety latch released at 130mph.
And as far as I can tell, Fritz is the man around here. However Fritz you still owe me for sellin that Flywheel from under me, 
.
Cheers.
David
Interesting point on propping up the rear of the hood. No one else mentioned that one...........Whenever the checkered flag came out (end of session) I would pop my hood latch which raises the front of the hood an inch or so............it seems to drop the temps substantially quickly, but I guess I can't run hard with it that way; might get kinda ugly if the safety latch released at 130mph.
And as far as I can tell, Fritz is the man around here. However Fritz you still owe me for sellin that Flywheel from under me,
.Cheers.
David
Last edited by MrZUMZUM; 08-09-03 at 07:30 AM.
08-09-03, 08:45 AM
#28
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Also, Fritz and I run Front Mount Intercoolers, which causes the water temps to run slightly hotter than Stock Mount Intercoolers. If you notice the original poster, eViL Rotor, also has a front mount intercooler on his T2. I don't intend to start the FMIC vs SMIC debate on this thread...just pointing that fact out between the cars with "high" water temps on the track...
Last edited by SleepR1; 08-09-03 at 08:48 AM.
08-09-03, 11:34 AM
#29
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My temps are always above 220 and thats with large rad, oil cooler, and duct work. If your temps are not above 220 on a summer day at the track your not driving hard enough
08-09-03, 12:19 PM
#30
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I don't think anyone's saying that running the motor with high water temps (>105 C) for extended periods is a good thing. My water temps climb to ~110 to 112 C (230 to 233 F) near the end of each 20-minute session (and that's WITH the heater ON). As I mentioned earlier, my KDR street-ported motor has enlarged oil and coolant passages, SILICONE O-ring seals, and an eccentric shaft mod (keeps the oil flowing to the eccentric shaft). FWIW, my KDR street-port motor now has ~9000 miles with probably 500 miles of track.
The fact is...track driving the Rx7 is not doing the car any favors either. But hey, what's the Rx7 for, if you can't thrash the rex around the road course every once in awhile during the summer
FWIW, Fritz has his FD pretty well sorted out, and is only one of a handful of FMIC-equipped FD Rx7s brave enough to track our cars in warm weather (>88 F ambient temps).
As for driving hard around the track, I don't doubt you give your car a good thrashing, but I'm willing to bet you don't have an FMIC-equipped FD or FC either.
IMHO, those of us with FMICs knew going in to the mod process, that water temps would climb higher in the summer, than those with SMIC-equipped turbo Rx7s.
We were willing to trade off higher water temps during the summer for very consistent air intake temps, and thus consistent power production (given adequate water temp control).
The fact is...track driving the Rx7 is not doing the car any favors either. But hey, what's the Rx7 for, if you can't thrash the rex around the road course every once in awhile during the summer
FWIW, Fritz has his FD pretty well sorted out, and is only one of a handful of FMIC-equipped FD Rx7s brave enough to track our cars in warm weather (>88 F ambient temps).
As for driving hard around the track, I don't doubt you give your car a good thrashing, but I'm willing to bet you don't have an FMIC-equipped FD or FC either.
IMHO, those of us with FMICs knew going in to the mod process, that water temps would climb higher in the summer, than those with SMIC-equipped turbo Rx7s.
We were willing to trade off higher water temps during the summer for very consistent air intake temps, and thus consistent power production (given adequate water temp control).
Last edited by SleepR1; 08-09-03 at 12:30 PM.
08-09-03, 12:27 PM
#31
Thanks guys, this has been a very informative thread for me. Keep it up.
I have learned from both 'sides' of this debate. First, I do have to do something about getting more arflow. Second, my temperatures, while high, are not necessarily abnormal for track-driven street cars, but I shouldn't be driving around like that all day
Already working on some ducting/shrouding
I have learned from both 'sides' of this debate. First, I do have to do something about getting more arflow. Second, my temperatures, while high, are not necessarily abnormal for track-driven street cars, but I shouldn't be driving around like that all day
Already working on some ducting/shrouding
Last edited by eViLRotor; 08-09-03 at 12:29 PM.
08-09-03, 02:58 PM
#32
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Originally posted by SleepR1
I don't think anyone's saying that running the motor with high water temps (>105 C) for extended periods is a good thing. My water temps climb to ~110 to 112 C (230 to 233 F) near the end of each 20-minute session (and that's WITH the heater ON). As I mentioned earlier, my KDR street-ported motor has enlarged oil and coolant passages, SILICONE O-ring seals, and an eccentric shaft mod (keeps the oil flowing to the eccentric shaft). FWIW, my KDR street-port motor now has ~9000 miles with probably 500 miles of track.
The fact is...track driving the Rx7 is not doing the car any favors either. But hey, what's the Rx7 for, if you can't thrash the rex around the road course every once in awhile during the summer
FWIW, Fritz has his FD pretty well sorted out, and is only one of a handful of FMIC-equipped FD Rx7s brave enough to track our cars in warm weather (>88 F ambient temps).
As for driving hard around the track, I don't doubt you give your car a good thrashing, but I'm willing to bet you don't have an FMIC-equipped FD or FC either.
IMHO, those of us with FMICs knew going in to the mod process, that water temps would climb higher in the summer, than those with SMIC-equipped turbo Rx7s.
We were willing to trade off higher water temps during the summer for very consistent air intake temps, and thus consistent power production (given adequate water temp control).
I don't think anyone's saying that running the motor with high water temps (>105 C) for extended periods is a good thing. My water temps climb to ~110 to 112 C (230 to 233 F) near the end of each 20-minute session (and that's WITH the heater ON). As I mentioned earlier, my KDR street-ported motor has enlarged oil and coolant passages, SILICONE O-ring seals, and an eccentric shaft mod (keeps the oil flowing to the eccentric shaft). FWIW, my KDR street-port motor now has ~9000 miles with probably 500 miles of track.
The fact is...track driving the Rx7 is not doing the car any favors either. But hey, what's the Rx7 for, if you can't thrash the rex around the road course every once in awhile during the summer
FWIW, Fritz has his FD pretty well sorted out, and is only one of a handful of FMIC-equipped FD Rx7s brave enough to track our cars in warm weather (>88 F ambient temps).
As for driving hard around the track, I don't doubt you give your car a good thrashing, but I'm willing to bet you don't have an FMIC-equipped FD or FC either.
IMHO, those of us with FMICs knew going in to the mod process, that water temps would climb higher in the summer, than those with SMIC-equipped turbo Rx7s.
We were willing to trade off higher water temps during the summer for very consistent air intake temps, and thus consistent power production (given adequate water temp control).
I would like to hear what temps some single turbo guys who drive with a heavy foot are seeing.
FWIW Crispy's temps are not much lower than mine and he has an smic.
08-09-03, 09:04 PM
#33
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Originally posted by tims
this is just foolish and you must have more money(for engines) than brains. constantly running at or above 220 degrees will shorten the life of any engine, rotary or otherwise. I guarantee you I run my car as hard as it will go and I don't see these temps. if I did I would be making some modifications to the cooling system.
this is just foolish and you must have more money(for engines) than brains. constantly running at or above 220 degrees will shorten the life of any engine, rotary or otherwise. I guarantee you I run my car as hard as it will go and I don't see these temps. if I did I would be making some modifications to the cooling system.
So what are your water temps, how much boost are you using, and what are your cooling mods. I'm going to Summit this coming Friday, Sat, and Sun and I will come back with a full report regarding engine temps and my guess is everyone in the advanced and instructor groups will see temps of 220 or more.
Yes I have more money than brains or I wouldn't take any car to the track
Fritz
08-09-03, 09:17 PM
#34
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researching turbo rx7 engine temps
Just remembered I'm going with a BMW group so there won't be too many turbo charged fds among us but I will still converse with as many folks as possible about engine temps. I don't think 220 is that high for 90 plus summer days at the track.
08-09-03, 09:51 PM
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I was out two weeks ago at TWS. How hot was it? We saw 137degrees F on the paddock pavement with the tire pyrometer.
Anyway, my FD saw water temps of 211 and oil temps of 217 (I have peak hold guages).
Many years ago, there was a smart kid named Trev Dagley. Trev built 10 sets of the best track intercooler/ radiator setups ever. it dropped the radiator 1.75" back and down. This enabled a full width intercooler duct for the ASP IC. I also get my T78 intake air from the inlet. I run twin CWC oil coolers and a Mazda Comp radiator.
Anyway, to REALLY get things cool, you must make dedicated ducts for the radiator and oil coolers. I use the big opening GTC nose and built aluminum ducts for the radiator and the oil coolers. If air comes into the inlet, it must go through the cooler.
Personally, I think anyone who runs a FMIC is crazy. Ask what is most important, a cooler intake charge or cooler engine coolant. I don't need to think twice about the answer. AFTER I get the engine temps under control, then I look at what I can do to decreas the intake temps and even then, I will not erode my engine cooling to lower my intake charge. I've been doing this for quite a while and the ASP IC is the best available for track use. ALso, I don't care what they do in Japan, our southern track temps REQUIRE getting as much air to the rdaiator and oil coolers as possible. Do less and you are gambling with short engiine life.
Anyway, my FD saw water temps of 211 and oil temps of 217 (I have peak hold guages).
Many years ago, there was a smart kid named Trev Dagley. Trev built 10 sets of the best track intercooler/ radiator setups ever. it dropped the radiator 1.75" back and down. This enabled a full width intercooler duct for the ASP IC. I also get my T78 intake air from the inlet. I run twin CWC oil coolers and a Mazda Comp radiator.
Anyway, to REALLY get things cool, you must make dedicated ducts for the radiator and oil coolers. I use the big opening GTC nose and built aluminum ducts for the radiator and the oil coolers. If air comes into the inlet, it must go through the cooler.
Personally, I think anyone who runs a FMIC is crazy. Ask what is most important, a cooler intake charge or cooler engine coolant. I don't need to think twice about the answer. AFTER I get the engine temps under control, then I look at what I can do to decreas the intake temps and even then, I will not erode my engine cooling to lower my intake charge. I've been doing this for quite a while and the ASP IC is the best available for track use. ALso, I don't care what they do in Japan, our southern track temps REQUIRE getting as much air to the rdaiator and oil coolers as possible. Do less and you are gambling with short engiine life.
08-09-03, 10:52 PM
#36
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Originally posted by bradrx7
I was out two weeks ago at TWS. How hot was it? We saw 137degrees F on the paddock pavement with the tire pyrometer.
Anyway, my FD saw water temps of 211 and oil temps of 217 (I have peak hold guages).
Many years ago, there was a smart kid named Trev Dagley. Trev built 10 sets of the best track intercooler/ radiator setups ever. it dropped the radiator 1.75" back and down. This enabled a full width intercooler duct for the ASP IC. I also get my T78 intake air from the inlet. I run twin CWC oil coolers and a Mazda Comp radiator.
Anyway, to REALLY get things cool, you must make dedicated ducts for the radiator and oil coolers. I use the big opening GTC nose and built aluminum ducts for the radiator and the oil coolers. If air comes into the inlet, it must go through the cooler.
Personally, I think anyone who runs a FMIC is crazy. Ask what is most important, a cooler intake charge or cooler engine coolant. I don't need to think twice about the answer. AFTER I get the engine temps under control, then I look at what I can do to decreas the intake temps and even then, I will not erode my engine cooling to lower my intake charge. I've been doing this for quite a while and the ASP IC is the best available for track use. ALso, I don't care what they do in Japan, our southern track temps REQUIRE getting as much air to the rdaiator and oil coolers as possible. Do less and you are gambling with short engiine life.
I was out two weeks ago at TWS. How hot was it? We saw 137degrees F on the paddock pavement with the tire pyrometer.
Anyway, my FD saw water temps of 211 and oil temps of 217 (I have peak hold guages).
Many years ago, there was a smart kid named Trev Dagley. Trev built 10 sets of the best track intercooler/ radiator setups ever. it dropped the radiator 1.75" back and down. This enabled a full width intercooler duct for the ASP IC. I also get my T78 intake air from the inlet. I run twin CWC oil coolers and a Mazda Comp radiator.
Anyway, to REALLY get things cool, you must make dedicated ducts for the radiator and oil coolers. I use the big opening GTC nose and built aluminum ducts for the radiator and the oil coolers. If air comes into the inlet, it must go through the cooler.
Personally, I think anyone who runs a FMIC is crazy. Ask what is most important, a cooler intake charge or cooler engine coolant. I don't need to think twice about the answer. AFTER I get the engine temps under control, then I look at what I can do to decreas the intake temps and even then, I will not erode my engine cooling to lower my intake charge. I've been doing this for quite a while and the ASP IC is the best available for track use. ALso, I don't care what they do in Japan, our southern track temps REQUIRE getting as much air to the rdaiator and oil coolers as possible. Do less and you are gambling with short engiine life.
Race cars don't qualify
.... but the average 3rd gen running hard at the track will see some high temps on hot days without lots and lots of modifications. The smart thing is to buy a car already set up perfectly. I think I know of one and my wallet is getting fatter with each passing day. In the interim I will just drive my car and pray that the engine holds water See you soon,
Fritz
08-09-03, 10:59 PM
#37
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Brad,
I guess Fritz and I are crazy
Also your car is a SINGLE TURBO, track-only car, so you don't compromise anything for streetability, while Fritz, evilRotor and I must make compromises for street FD/FCs that see track time. Fritz and I have sequential twins, FWIW...
If I lived in TX, I'd do V-mount. Apparently V-mount is what the circuit racers use in Japan FDs.
BTW, foko's (fabian) gorgeous SINGLE TURBO track-only CYM FD is also for sale. Like you he's going club racing (in a Radical SR3, SCCA CSR class, I think).
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=211166
Damn I wish I had the dough...
I guess Fritz and I are crazy
Also your car is a SINGLE TURBO, track-only car, so you don't compromise anything for streetability, while Fritz, evilRotor and I must make compromises for street FD/FCs that see track time. Fritz and I have sequential twins, FWIW...
If I lived in TX, I'd do V-mount. Apparently V-mount is what the circuit racers use in Japan FDs.
BTW, foko's (fabian) gorgeous SINGLE TURBO track-only CYM FD is also for sale. Like you he's going club racing (in a Radical SR3, SCCA CSR class, I think).
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=211166
Damn I wish I had the dough...
Last edited by SleepR1; 08-09-03 at 11:17 PM.
08-09-03, 11:12 PM
#38
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Originally posted by Fritz Flynn
FWIW Crispy's temps are not much lower than mine and he has an smic.
FWIW Crispy's temps are not much lower than mine and he has an smic.
FWIW, Peachstate PCA has a Road Atlanta event August 23/24.
TracQuest is hosting a Mid Ohio drivers ed Sept 1/2. I will be at this one for sure (I'm one of Todd Serota's east coast TracQuest instructors). To learn more about TracQuest, visit www.tracquest.com
Have fun @ the Sept VIR event!
Last edited by SleepR1; 08-09-03 at 11:14 PM.
08-10-03, 06:29 PM
#40
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Fritz, my car used to be street legal and the cooling mods are not track only. I did some of the same stuff to my old silver car. Besides, Carl says you are 'wacked' so it may not help you. LOL
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
08-10-03, 10:56 PM
#41
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Originally posted by bradrx7
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
When is that Mazda event? Is there time to sign up?
08-11-03, 06:49 AM
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September 20-21
http://www.mazdadrivers.com
http://www.mazdadrivers.com
08-11-03, 11:16 AM
#43
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I have run a FMIC on my race only FC and I have run the stock IC(better setup for me). all with the stock turbo running at 10 psi of boost. I use a custom designed(by me) and built( by stock car radiator shop) cross flow radiator that has a coil surface the exact size of the radiator support opening. custom aluminum ducting(may get some picts of this soon). I use the stock second gen oil cooler plus an additional 10"x10" oil cooler plumbed in series. engine builder always uses turbo oil pump and 3rd gen pressure regulator. I run 200*F or lower on water and oil at all times. during winter months I run tape on radiator opening, but for a street car a t-stat would do the same job. cost of mods $350 for radiator(3 years ago prices), $100 for oil cooler, and $150 for lines and aluminum sheet metal. so for $600 you could extend the life of your $5000 engine. seems like and obvious mod to make to any car that will see any track use.
08-11-03, 11:59 AM
#44
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Argggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!
This weekend I was banging around Summit Point with the BMW CCA and was having serious problems with my coolant temps. It was about 85 degrees outside and probably closer to 95+ on the sunny track.
My setup: Stock cooling other than a fluidyne radiator and Pettit AST. Pettit underdrive pulley. My front bumper/ducting is stock (other than some custom brake ducts under the lip) and I'm using a PFS intake, IC and PMS set at 10 psi of boost. 80% water/20% coolant mix with Redline water wetter.
Water temps on my Defi D-gauge were climbing up to 240 degrees F (as measured at the filler neck) after about 5-6 laps in each session. At about 230 F my car would not rev past 5500 rpm so I had to short shift past that temperature. At 240 F, I would slow way down to lower the temps and so it never got past 242ish F. It never overheated or pushed the coolant out. I was pissed.
My thoughts:
1) Something is seriously f*cked in my cooling system. The radiator and thermostat are new (as is the motor - still under warranty), but maybe my waterpump is shot or something else is bad?
2) I have the one-oil-cooler-base model, and with no oil temp guage I'm guessing that my oil temps are high. Maybe I should bite the bullet and either get a 2nd oil cooler from the R1 or go aftermarket for a dual cooler setup.
3) The FD sucks as a streetworthy but trackable car and should be driven off the nearest cliff.
So do you think it is 1, 2 or 3... or some combination of them. And is it right that the stock ECU cuts the revs when things start getting that hot as a safety measure? Manny... Brad... Crispy... Bueller???
My setup: Stock cooling other than a fluidyne radiator and Pettit AST. Pettit underdrive pulley. My front bumper/ducting is stock (other than some custom brake ducts under the lip) and I'm using a PFS intake, IC and PMS set at 10 psi of boost. 80% water/20% coolant mix with Redline water wetter.
Water temps on my Defi D-gauge were climbing up to 240 degrees F (as measured at the filler neck) after about 5-6 laps in each session. At about 230 F my car would not rev past 5500 rpm so I had to short shift past that temperature. At 240 F, I would slow way down to lower the temps and so it never got past 242ish F. It never overheated or pushed the coolant out. I was pissed.
My thoughts:
1) Something is seriously f*cked in my cooling system. The radiator and thermostat are new (as is the motor - still under warranty), but maybe my waterpump is shot or something else is bad?
2) I have the one-oil-cooler-base model, and with no oil temp guage I'm guessing that my oil temps are high. Maybe I should bite the bullet and either get a 2nd oil cooler from the R1 or go aftermarket for a dual cooler setup.
3) The FD sucks as a streetworthy but trackable car and should be driven off the nearest cliff.
So do you think it is 1, 2 or 3... or some combination of them. And is it right that the stock ECU cuts the revs when things start getting that hot as a safety measure? Manny... Brad... Crispy... Bueller???
Last edited by Coulthard Fan; 08-11-03 at 12:06 PM.
08-11-03, 12:40 PM
#45
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Re: Argggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Coulthard Fan
This weekend I was banging around Summit Point with the BMW CCA and was having serious problems with my coolant temps. It was about 85 degrees outside and probably closer to 95+ on the sunny track.
My setup: Stock cooling other than a fluidyne radiator and Pettit AST. Pettit underdrive pulley. My front bumper/ducting is stock (other than some custom brake ducts under the lip) and I'm using a PFS intake, IC and PMS set at 10 psi of boost. 80% water/20% coolant mix with Redline water wetter.
Water temps on my Defi D-gauge were climbing up to 240 degrees F (as measured at the filler neck) after about 5-6 laps in each session. At about 230 F my car would not rev past 5500 rpm so I had to short shift past that temperature. At 240 F, I would slow way down to lower the temps and so it never got past 242ish F. It never overheated or pushed the coolant out. I was pissed.
My thoughts:
1) Something is seriously f*cked in my cooling system. The radiator and thermostat are new (as is the motor - still under warranty), but maybe my waterpump is shot or something else is bad?
2) I have the one-oil-cooler-base model, and with no oil temp guage I'm guessing that my oil temps are high. Maybe I should bite the bullet and either get a 2nd oil cooler from the R1 or go aftermarket for a dual cooler setup.
3) The FD sucks as a streetworthy but trackable car and should be driven off the nearest cliff.
So do you think it is 1, 2 or 3... or some combination of them. And is it right that the stock ECU cuts the revs when things start getting that hot as a safety measure? Manny... Brad... Crispy... Bueller???
This weekend I was banging around Summit Point with the BMW CCA and was having serious problems with my coolant temps. It was about 85 degrees outside and probably closer to 95+ on the sunny track.
My setup: Stock cooling other than a fluidyne radiator and Pettit AST. Pettit underdrive pulley. My front bumper/ducting is stock (other than some custom brake ducts under the lip) and I'm using a PFS intake, IC and PMS set at 10 psi of boost. 80% water/20% coolant mix with Redline water wetter.
Water temps on my Defi D-gauge were climbing up to 240 degrees F (as measured at the filler neck) after about 5-6 laps in each session. At about 230 F my car would not rev past 5500 rpm so I had to short shift past that temperature. At 240 F, I would slow way down to lower the temps and so it never got past 242ish F. It never overheated or pushed the coolant out. I was pissed.
My thoughts:
1) Something is seriously f*cked in my cooling system. The radiator and thermostat are new (as is the motor - still under warranty), but maybe my waterpump is shot or something else is bad?
2) I have the one-oil-cooler-base model, and with no oil temp guage I'm guessing that my oil temps are high. Maybe I should bite the bullet and either get a 2nd oil cooler from the R1 or go aftermarket for a dual cooler setup.
3) The FD sucks as a streetworthy but trackable car and should be driven off the nearest cliff.
So do you think it is 1, 2 or 3... or some combination of them. And is it right that the stock ECU cuts the revs when things start getting that hot as a safety measure? Manny... Brad... Crispy... Bueller???
08-11-03, 01:20 PM
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Re: Re: Argggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by SleepR1
FMIC or SMIC? If SMIC, that's warm. My Power FC also cuts power when my water temps are in the >110 C (>230 F). Water pump cavitation? Do you have a underdrive main pulley? Redline water wetter? try some... Are you sure your radiator fans are working (particularly the high speed setting)? Will you be attending the Mazda Drivers VIR Full Course event Sept 20/21? ...
FMIC or SMIC? If SMIC, that's warm. My Power FC also cuts power when my water temps are in the >110 C (>230 F). Water pump cavitation? Do you have a underdrive main pulley? Redline water wetter? try some... Are you sure your radiator fans are working (particularly the high speed setting)? Will you be attending the Mazda Drivers VIR Full Course event Sept 20/21? ...
Re: VIR on the 20th - I have a wedding to attend otherwise I'd be there. Was going to do the Mazda Driver's November event on the new Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point... but from what I heard this weekend from the on-site construction crew, it will not be completed until next year! Maybe I should skip that wedding - assuming I get this cooling problem solved.
08-11-03, 01:55 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Argggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Coulthard Fan
I have the medium SMIC and duct from PFS. As stated, I'm running 80/20 with water wetter and an underdrive pully, so that's not it. The fans do seem to be operating properly, but I wasn't thinking that would matter once I'm at speed on the track.
Re: VIR on the 20th - I have a wedding to attend otherwise I'd be there. Was going to do the Mazda Driver's November event on the new Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point... but from what I heard this weekend from the on-site construction crew, it will not be completed until next year! Maybe I should skip that wedding - assuming I get this cooling problem solved.
I have the medium SMIC and duct from PFS. As stated, I'm running 80/20 with water wetter and an underdrive pully, so that's not it. The fans do seem to be operating properly, but I wasn't thinking that would matter once I'm at speed on the track.
Re: VIR on the 20th - I have a wedding to attend otherwise I'd be there. Was going to do the Mazda Driver's November event on the new Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point... but from what I heard this weekend from the on-site construction crew, it will not be completed until next year! Maybe I should skip that wedding - assuming I get this cooling problem solved.
245f is the begining of real trouble or possible housing damage which I'm told only takes once
I have not experienced power loss with temps as high as 118c with my pfc ecu.
With temps that high something is wrong for sure. Good luck finding the remedy and hopefully see you at VIR
Fritz
08-11-03, 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by bradrx7
Fritz, my car used to be street legal and the cooling mods are not track only. I did some of the same stuff to my old silver car. Besides, Carl says you are 'wacked' so it may not help you. LOL
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
Fritz, my car used to be street legal and the cooling mods are not track only. I did some of the same stuff to my old silver car. Besides, Carl says you are 'wacked' so it may not help you. LOL
Manny, quit trying to get us all to gather at Todd's events. Why not meet us all at VIR for a MAZDA event? It's closer to you than RA and we'll all be there.
I understand I was just giving you a hard time. I'm sure I could get my temps down with another large oil cooler some more duct work a vented hood etc...etc...but it all cost money and I really plan on eventually getting another fd like yours or switching to a z06 so to me its pointless to put more money into my car. Also my temps are not horrible they stay at about 112c on hot days.
Fortunately I don't pay attention to Carl
Manny, Brad is right just come to VIR this Fall and we can have fun with the Porsche and BMW crowd
Fritz
08-11-03, 02:09 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Argggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Fritz Flynn
Did you check your oil level? Is your underbelly ducting set up properly to push the air through your radiator? If its not one of these then it sounds like you need a water pump or t-stat.
Did you check your oil level? Is your underbelly ducting set up properly to push the air through your radiator? If its not one of these then it sounds like you need a water pump or t-stat.
Maybe I should just replace the water pump and T stat as a preventative measure. The thing is that the car runs normal temps on the street and at my bi-weekly autocrosses. You would think if either of these were shot I'd be having problems all over the place.
Honestly, the car was running so hot that I think I have several issues going on here. It was a bummer as I was literally blowing the doors off everything on the track until my temps went up, then I had to start waving people by
but even short shifting I had to lift for them to get by me.
08-11-03, 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by tims
I have run a FMIC on my race only FC and I have run the stock IC(better setup for me). all with the stock turbo running at 10 psi of boost. I use a custom designed(by me) and built( by stock car radiator shop) cross flow radiator that has a coil surface the exact size of the radiator support opening. custom aluminum ducting(may get some picts of this soon). I use the stock second gen oil cooler plus an additional 10"x10" oil cooler plumbed in series. engine builder always uses turbo oil pump and 3rd gen pressure regulator. I run 200*F or lower on water and oil at all times. during winter months I run tape on radiator opening, but for a street car a t-stat would do the same job. cost of mods $350 for radiator(3 years ago prices), $100 for oil cooler, and $150 for lines and aluminum sheet metal. so for $600 you could extend the life of your $5000 engine. seems like and obvious mod to make to any car that will see any track use.
I have run a FMIC on my race only FC and I have run the stock IC(better setup for me). all with the stock turbo running at 10 psi of boost. I use a custom designed(by me) and built( by stock car radiator shop) cross flow radiator that has a coil surface the exact size of the radiator support opening. custom aluminum ducting(may get some picts of this soon). I use the stock second gen oil cooler plus an additional 10"x10" oil cooler plumbed in series. engine builder always uses turbo oil pump and 3rd gen pressure regulator. I run 200*F or lower on water and oil at all times. during winter months I run tape on radiator opening, but for a street car a t-stat would do the same job. cost of mods $350 for radiator(3 years ago prices), $100 for oil cooler, and $150 for lines and aluminum sheet metal. so for $600 you could extend the life of your $5000 engine. seems like and obvious mod to make to any car that will see any track use.
Sounds like a great setup esp if you never see temps over 200f...Damn thats awesome for summertime lap days
I'm not an engineer so it would cost me a bit more to really set my car up properly but I'm happy with its current running condition. A new engine installed will cost me about 2.5 and I can always fix other things when that dreaded day comes.
Thanks for your help,
Fritz