redbstd

^^^schweet. so ive been pokin around and it seems like scca ep class level 1 is what i feel would be a good level to build my car to so. who here is familair with the mods i can do?

These are the things i think i can do. corect me if im wrong

SP my engine
P&P my intake and throtle body
Full race exhaust-db level?
High compression rotars
Cryogen internals
remove emissions-required
Any clutch/flywheel combo-remain stock size
Any shock and spring combo
Any brake setup-without touching rotors and calipers
Aluminum driveshaft
Any diff ratio
Remove interior
1pc race seat-required
Fuel cell-required, limit on capacity?
Replace tie rods with rod ends
any wheel/tire combo-dot approved
aluminum radiator/e fan

Ok now for the stuff im unshure of.

Megasquirt
Tubular cross members
Tubular adjustible control arms-camber
Fender flares- bolt on
Naca air duct
Roll cage-dont think ill need it though
Do i have to weld up sunroof?
What can i gusset?

ok so what other big things did i miss? I read the rule book but that ***** a little confusing and very vague

Chedstar

The only other big item you missed is a big bank account. Especially if you are going production racing.

My advice would be to buy a car, and learn how to drive. If you are looking to build a car, check out www.DGEMotorsports.com he is in Vancouver WA, but he can hook you up with all your fabricating needs. Lots of racers from the Seattle area bring their cars down to him.

Black91n/a

Before you get carried away, RX-7's are prep level 2 cars. You can also use a webber carb with a limited size venturi, and that will likely give better high end power from shorter runners.

Non-DOT tires are allowed, like Hoosier and Goodyear cantilever slicks (>10" wide 23" diameter tires on the required 15x7 wheel). No need to cryo internals, but lightened and balanced rotating assembly with snap ring retained gears would be good, maybe get them scalloped, get them race clearanced and definetely do every known oil system mod, dry sump is best. Lighter than stock apex seals will be good for high rpms that are needed to make power (ceramic or carbon). You can replace your rear control arm bushings with spherical bearings (AWR) and they also make front needle bearing control arms. You'll want a high ratio rear gear (ie 5.12:1), you can run a dog box or put Miata gears in your box. Replace the rear hatch with fiberglass and lexan, replace the windshield with lexan. Remove everything that you're allowed to, run a really light fiberglass hood (with intergral headlight covers if it's an FC).

Megasquirt -Sure, on the stock manifold and TB only
Tubular cross members -No
Tubular adjustible control arms-camber -Not necessarily needed
Fender flares- bolt on -Or molded in, but Dzus fasteners would be most common
Naca air duct -No, you can use the turn signal holes though and FTP holes for an FC
Roll cage-dont think ill need it though -Required
Do i have to weld up sunroof? -Not necessarily, but you want it gone for GC reasons, you can rivet on a cover
What can i gusset? -Basically anything

Read the rules through at least 10x and do everything that you're allowed to do, that's what it takes to win most of the time. AWR is a good source for lots of EP race parts.

jimeby

iTrader: (1)

To build a competitive EP car you're going to need $50,000.00. If that's your budget then go for it. Or you could take a look at the pro7 class to get a good low cost start at racing. If you're not set on building your own, there's a few good turn key pro7 cars that you can pick up for the bargin basement price of around $3,000 to $4000.

As far as SCCA vs ICSCC... all I can say is we've never had any issues with SCCA accepting us from IRDC.

redbstd

money is no issue so thanks guys i have a lot to consider. i have had several job offers recently due to going to wyotech the most promissing is art morrison so i have fab skills wich helps a lot with costs. how much deos it cost to build a pro7 car? i think some might be confused on what i have its a 84 GSL-SE and im thinking about spending $20k.

Black91n/a

There's actually a competetive EIP (what ICSCC calls SCCA EP) for sale in WA right now. It's much cheaper than building one yourself.

http://www.icscc.com/cgi-bin/discus/...le=/6/822.html

redbstd

Id much rather build mine. I dont even allow people to work on my vehicles so buying one someone already built is almost definatly out of the question. Ive learned from experiance that i can only trust my work. but thanks anyway.

oh and im looking to spent $30k building my own car not 20. blame it on the fat fingers haha

also what is the benifit of running miata gears?

Pro 7 is limited to 12a isnt it? if not wich class is i cant remember

Black91n/a

The gears are spaced more closely than in the RX-7 boxes and they've got a nice low 5th gear. They're as strong as or maybe stronger than the RX-7 boxes (the NA ones anyway).

redbstd

so you talking just the gears or the whole tranny?

jimeby

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I gave you bad advice. The GSL-SE is not a legal car for pro7. The pro7 class has to be non-SE brakes and a stock 12a engine. Typically I think the cars are based on the GSL.

As for trannies, you have to pull the gears out of the Miata trans and put them in a RX7 case. You also have to perform some lathe work on the input shaft but it's not major. The trans that works best for us as far as gear ratios go is the 2nd gen NA trans. It has a taller 2nd gear which fits the PR and Bremerton tracks better with our stock SE engine. Your best bet is to start with the trans that you have and wait to see how the ratios fit the track and engine that you're using. Then look for close ratio/wide ratio alternatives.
I think your budget could build you a nice ITS car (That's the SCCA classification... I don't know the ICSCC equivilent) You can run your stock engine in that class and then when you get the chassis sorted out, do the mods to bump up to EP. Just keep an eye on the EP rules when building so your cage, etc is legal for for when you make the jump. For example, I built a GT legal cage in mine and I'm glad I did.

redbstd

^^^do you run a SE or do you know of a good begining class that allows them? the $30k is what ill eventually put in the car not right this minute. right now im looking at 2-5k for the basic stuff like tires, rims, coils and shocks etc.

is there a specific miata tranny i have to use?

Chedstar

redbstd give Dave at DGEMotorsports a call, he has a lot of experience with putting miata internals into an RX-7 case.

Black91n/a

All the Maita 5 speeds are the same, so any one of them is fine. The later ones might have better synchros or something, but that'll be about it.

All the safety gear like the seat, cage, fire system, shutoff switch, belts, fire suit, helmet and so could easily run you $10k, and that's without doing any of the performance mods yet like coilovers, race tires and proper brakes. You won't be allowed to race untill you get that all sorted.

redbstd

This i figured im just plan on doing a little racing to begin with. im not even looking at going production racing at this time just some open laps and auto crossing but what i realy want to do is go production racing(eventually) but for right now ill be happy with going faster than whats allowed on the freeway. Im figuring on a spending for a cage wich i can TIG myself, helmet, seat, belt, and suit(maybe) all the other stuff is not needed for what im figuring on doing. My car will evolove as my racing skills evolove. For now production racing is definately out of the question and to think i would jump right into it is laughable. So sorry if i misled some i apologize. im just trying to get some info on what road couse races i can compete in with a mostly stock GSL-SE except for above named mods and suspention,DOT tire, wheels, slotted rotors, decent pads, stainless lines. just the basics for now thats were i got the $2-5k from. I know racings expensive but for now i owe $35K to Wyotech so splooging on a race car isnt the wisest of decisions.

Black91n/a

Any on track racing requires safety gear. I think with Solo 1 (time trials) it's less (ie roll bar not cage), but that's not door to door racing, it's more like open track days.

Basically all you can do now is driving schools, then once you get some experience you can do open track days too. That's not racing though, it is track driving, but it's 100% non-competetive and most of the time taking lap times is forbidden and if you're trying to race with anyone they'll kick you out.

redbstd

My car will have a cage, racing seat, and harness. So after i get some driving schools and experience under my belt whats the beginning form of racing were i can race others?

Black91n/a

I think ITS or maybe ICSCC Production (not the same as SCCA Production) would be the entry level for you.

jimeby

iTrader: (1)

My car started life as a GLS-SE. I have a totally stock rear suspension except for shocks. The front is mostly stock with a home built coil over kit and stock car three piece sway bar. I use the stock wheels and now I'm using Khumo 195x14 tires. The engine is a totally stock SE with stock injection (built by JLC in Kent). The interior is gutted except it has the stock dash and instruments. Most of the parts on the car are used ebay or free outdated/unwanted stockcar parts from a friendly team. My car isn't competetive in any class that it's legal in. The lowest class is ITS and it can barely keep up there. But, it gets us in the run group and there's always another car or two in some other class that's about the same speed as us so we just play with whoever is similar speed with us. I can at least say it's faster than most spec Miata cars.
The only thing I did for brakes was an ebay $15 proportioning valve and expensive Hawk pads. Everything else in the brakes is stock. I use the stock SE rear end. I pulled it apart and added an additional spacer in the clutch pack to tighten it up.
I got a cage kit from CSC and installed it myself. That was pretty inexpensive.. around $1000. Be sure to get one with DOM tubing. After that, you only need a few safey items: main power switch, fire extinguisher, window net, etc. You can use the stock seat but entry level aluminum race seats are pretty cheap. Wait as long as possible to buy your belts. They come with a manufacturing date stamp and become illegal 2 years after that date.
The best entry level performance mods you can do with the engine is light flywheel and header. I think the flywheel setup is over priced by the time you get the counter weight and all but it does help free up the engine revs. Be very wary of people trying to sell you big port jobs. It's very common to way over port an engine without having the additional internals to let you rev the engine to the levels that can use the ports. No port work is allowed for ITS. Also, be very careful to keep the stock SE below 7000 RPM.
My biggest issue is finding tires that can live longer than a couple race weekends under the stock fenders. And at $500 per set, that becomes my second biggest consumable. Tops is entry fees at $300 per weekend.
That should be enough to keep the thread going a few more days.

redbstd

OK so were a the specific rules for ITS at? How many at once race in ITS? Also what is the average price of a competitive ITS car? Also what mods can be done to my engine to make it stronger or more relaible at higher rpm?

wrankin

IT == Improved Touring.

Check the forums at:

http://www.improvedtouring.com/

It's an SCCA class, so the General Competition Rules (GCR) with specify all the cars and the modifications is available for download at the SCCA site:

http://www.scca.org/

Cost for a competitive car? Depends on the class. Already built entry level cars can be had for $4k to $8k. Multiply that by 2 if you are building the same car yourself. Front running cars can run $20k-$30k for a custom build with everything freshened and spares, again depending on class.

Black91n/a

Go to the SCCA website and download the GCR (rule book). The rules for IT and Prod and all the other classes as well as the general rules are all in there. Get intimately familiar with it. The rules for ICSCC Prod are available from their website.

You really can't do any internal modifications in IT (in order to control power levels and keep costs down). Stock flywheel is needed too. You can raise the oil pressure and change seals, but that's about it. Intake needs to be stock too, but you can re-jet carbs or run a standalone and exhaust is free.

jimeby

iTrader: (1)

As far as engine mods for higher RPM I'm not much of an expert. The biggest deal is the apex seals. I use stock, there are better ones that the high RPM guys use. They get very expensive and must be changed often. I have the "racing" oil pump and pressure regulator for higher oil pressure. Another needed mod is upgraded stationary gears. Then I'm sure there's lots of smaller tricks that they put in that I don't know about. Then you have to run aftermarket fuel injection or carb because the SE injection doesn't have enough capacity to deliver the required extra fuel. I can say that I gave JLC a running engine and he returned it to me with his choice of upgrades (for reliability only... no power increasing mods) for about $3000. He said it should last me 10 years of road racing as long as I give it normal maintenance and most of all observe the 7000 RPM redline. He said a "cheater motor" with all the ultra high rpm parts and portwork would cost me between $10K and $20k plus it would have to come back at least once a year for refreshing.
I haven't been to an ICSCC race in a long time but they typically have a much higher car count than SCCA. For SCCA, Greg Fordahl has a bunch of 944s that he brings. Usually they run ITS... sometimes they run other classes. So, I'd say there's maybe 2 or 3 in the class.
You can go to either ICSCC or NWR-SCCA web sites then look for 2007 race results and count the number of cars that have run in each class in each race. SCCA results are at:
http://www.nwr-scca.org/Race/results/2007Results.htm
You can also find my car in the results to see how competitive we are.
By the way, Fordahl rents his cars for a very reasonable price. I don't know how he does it because it's almost cheaper than I can run my own car. The cars look very clean and are very reliable.

redbstd

I just realized the question i just asked was answered but....do any of you know who can machine my part for me?

Black91n/a

Racing Beat sells lightened assemblies with the snap ring gear mod, but they don't do the scallopping. CLR Motorsports in Miami was a pioneer of the scallopping as I gather, you should try getting in touch with them about that.

It'll be costly though, and you'll really need some big ports and big rpm's to make enough power to make it all worth the cost, and to get to those high rpm's cost money for other things too, like the light apex seals, the race bearings, hardened stat gears and all those oil system mods. If you want more power and rpm's at lower cost, swap in some S5 internals, that gets you to an 8k redline right there for little cost.

redbstd

s5 internal swaps the plan. you sure your not a mind reader? lol.

what is scalloping? First time ive heard of it.