D Walker

iTrader: (1)

I do not have a caged FD here, but I do not believe a well-built cage would impede exiting through the window. I do have a Kirkey here with an added right side helmet support (Butlerbuilt) and there is no issue with it on exit. There "might" be an issue if you are using knee boards, but too many variables to say for sure.

FWIW I do not really use the 'batwing" style seats much anymore, mostly because they make it very hard to get a good cage fitment and take up a lot of room. I do really like the wraparound rib-protection style seats though, and have not had any trouble getting out of a window as yet. An FD might require some careful fitment and consideration, but if your methodical in your fitting and planning you should carry it off just fine.

Cheers!
Don

finger lock

iTrader: (6)

I'm 6'2", 215lbs and regularly crawl in and out the drivers window when loading and unloading the car from the enclosed trailer. It's not a big deal, however my seat is located as far as possible to the rear of the cockpit. If the seat were located further forward things might be different.

Guy

Beast From The East

My cage is well made and goes as far out to the body shell as possible, it's the shoulder and head bolsters that concern me. Here are some drawings comparing the Kirkey full containment with head bolsters to the Sparco used by Finger Lock...

http://www.kirkeyracing.com/related/...%20Drawing.gif

http://www.racinglab.com/sparco-seat-evo-plus.html

The basic dimensions of the two seats are pretty close, it's the head and shoulder bolsters I'm worried about, they poke out farther than the Sparco by quite a bit. If I go with the short ones (10.5in vs 14in), I think I'll be ok, esp with the steering wheel popped. If IO Port has some in stock I may just trailer the car to their location and drop a couple in place to ensure fitment before getting my dimensions precisely and having the custom one made.

Man, this is gonna be awesome.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

^There is a longish thread on the specmiata forum on the topic of halo seats and whether they impede exit when upside down. Link here:
http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/u...2;t=004677;p=0

My 2 cents - I think its more likely that I'd hit a tire wall or barrier or get hit by another car where my head would be bounced around side to side vs. being ugly side up and squeezing out the window.

Depending on positioning, the halo seats might pose a minor obstruction but you weigh your risks and make the decision that you are most comfortable with.

I'm picking up my Sparco Pro ADV (halo seat) Sat from Wine Country at Infineon. definitely get out to the shops and see these things in person and sit in them.

Beast From The East

Thanks Gracer, this is really good stuff. Another alternative is the 'normal' full containment Kirkey seat vs. the custom three piece unit:

http://www.kirkeyracing.com/related/...op-Drawing.gif

It's a bit less expensive but the head bolster still stick out the same distance as the short tubular ones. What I'll probably do is call IO Port and see what

I need to watch some of those videos in the Spec Miata thread, but it seems like the consensus is to have the full containment to survived the crash vs. worry about getting out the window if the door is jammed.....doesn't help if your dead from teh impact, the fire becomes unimportant, or a cheap way to get creamated besides, you can always go out the other side...if it is also blocked, then your time has basically come.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Been up on my side before (well, passengers side) in a 924 running in GT3 and it was no issue really to get out. I did not skid on the lid or have a dramatic multi-roll accident, just a nice leisurely tip-over after going sideways into the dirt. Wheels dug in and on my side I went.
Sat in the seat for quite some time before I figured out that I should probably get out, as the cornerworkers were going insane. They were much happier when I stuck my hand out the window with a thumbs up. Incidently, I managed to stay in the seat after releasing the belts and basically used the Halo bar and seat to worm my way out. I was younger and in better shape then. Now I think I would probably try and stand on whatever happened to be handy and try andclamber out.

One point I should make here- the A pillar to halo joint must be reinforced. I have seen this point fold down in a rollover and it changes the dynamics of getting out dramatically, nevermind the fact that cage structure failure is BAD. Sometimes the needed reinforcement can seem to make it harder to get out of the car by redcing the area avilable, but in the trade you get a nifty handhold that you can use to yank yourself out of the car.

Beast From The East

Since I'll be experiencing more g-forces once I get the seat and harness installed, and my current helmet is only SA2000/M2000 rated (not good enough for racing, only ok for HPDE), I also figured it was time to upgrade to a HANS device and new helmet. Using the writeup on helmets from Grassroots a few months back I decided on the HJC Si12, with predrilled holes for the HANS device. I'll get the HANS once I get the seat chosen and installed, to determine what degree layback is needed to fit properly. Grassroots recommended this helmet for folks who wear glasses (which I do). Also turns out to be the same helmet my father is using, and he likes it very much. Soloracer had them on sale for only $479, a good price considering the features.

What layback degree are folks using with their seats for their HANS device in a 3rd gen?

Also figure I'll update the HANS to the sliding tether system with the easier disconnects........opinions?

What reasonablly priced 3 layer suits are folks using? The only 3 layer that Grassroots tested was the Oakley, at over $1700. They thought the Alpinestar GP-1 was a good value for the product, but at two layers you're looking at Nomex undies, which I hear are a tad uncomfy in warm weather. My father uses a 3 layer Alpinestar with cool shirt, he likes it a lot.

finger lock

iTrader: (6)

Beast-
I use the 20 degree Hans with sliding tethers. Wine Country Motorsports at Infineon is having sales right now on lots of stuff including 3-layer driving suits. This is the suit I have.

Guy

Beast From The East

Thx, Guy, that is a nice looking suit and a good price. My crew chief and I are planning a road trip and I think we'll need to hit Wine Country and then shoot down to IO Port or vice verse. I will try on your version and also the Aplinestar Pro 3 layer that my father uses and see which one feels better. My father managed to get his for less than $900 and I'm trolling around for a similar deal, and I"m partial to red color with black which matches the car (mines vintage red).

Are you using the Sport or Professional version? Looks like 20 degree for me based on your input - do you use any padding or the quick disconnects?

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

I have the DefNder for HNR system. It seemed more comfortable but I have only used it once at LeMons.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Mind if I ask what you paid for your Defender?

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

I think it was between $450 - $550 last year. It comes standard with sliding, quick release tethers which is an option on the Hans. It wound up being about $100 less than a Hans with the upgraded sliding tethers and quick release. It also more easily accommodates 3" belts and belt placement is easier thanks to the guides.



I'm on saferacer.com's web site right now trying to select harnesses. Too many choices but the G-Force seems to be the more budget friendly at $154 for a 6 point cam lock.

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-pro...?productid=953

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

If your looking at those type harnesses I might be able to help, as one of my vendors carry a couple of different brands.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

we use the quick disconnects, they are quite good, you can put em on with gloves, and they don't fall off on their own.

the seat angle thing is weird though, the hans pushes your head down a little, so the seat needs to be reclined more than "normal" or the hans moves your line of sight from looking out the windshield to looking at your feet. looking down is actually safer for your neck, our yoga teacher tells us that all the time...

so it might be worth it to try that in the store too, although side mount seats can usually be moved

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Also, it just occurred to me that my vendor also carries Sparco, Stack, a couple of different seatbelt brands (will have to check as I cannot remember which ones) and some other items of interest. If anyone is interested I can check and see what my price is on the stuff and see what sort of deal I could work out. I do not usually sell safety equipment/ steering wheels etc., so it doesnt hurt me to get a solid discount I can pass along to racers.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Too late for me. I placed the purchase shortly after posting. Thanks though.

I'm getting tired of spending money on an expensive garage ornament. Need a track fix!

Beast From The East

I had a family emergency come up and so I had to step out of the forum. j9fd3s' comment is certainly something to consider, so I ask j9fd3s what layback are you using for the HANS vs. what is the layback degree on the seat you were using? If you use the standard HANS layback, which I think is 10 degrees, that could contribute to the 'head tilt forward' factor, I'm guessing, also might be influenced by the layback on the seat as well....and now you've given me another thing to do when I go seat shopping - if they have one in stock (or something close), I need to take my new Si12 helmet (got it two weeks ago, it's loverly), fit the HANS on it, and sit in the seat to see what my head does......

Also, is anyone else experiencing this 'look at your feet' issue with their helmet/head restraint/seat combination, or did they initially deal with it and then successfully 'tune it out' with seat adjustments (typically using the seat anchoring system to fiddle with the angle?)......

EDIT - looking at April or May for Thill (NASA and maybe the Trackmaster's day on the Friday before for extra time) and Infineon in June or July, Dad might trailer up his 'vette for Infineon.......

Beast

gawdodirt

I would expand your choices a bit. I looked at all the road racer stuff and it was hugely expensive VS. it's purpose. Iopted for a Grant three spoke 14" steering wheel from Sumit at $25.95 with a quick discinnect and it is fantastic. Another 30 year SCCA guy drove my car and liked the wheel alot. Simple, ample diameter and cheap. For a seat, I use a Sparco Pro 2000. Very good seat. I'm 6'3" and my head is close to my cage on the top so the containment type of seat would aggrivate this. I just used SFI padding .I have driven many cars in many types of racing. Lots of off-road. And now road racing in an FC. The perfect angle and perfect gloves, wheel, shoes, really don't mean ****. You are either ready to aclimate to the circumstances or you aren't. Work with what you have and try to go fast. It's never perfect. Too easy to get caught up in the details.

I would suggest you look at this site for good real world products at a great price. www.upr.com.

GD

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

to be honest i don't know, but the "look at your feet" thing was pointed out after one of the 25's, so we may not have changed the seat at all! since we run enduro's though, we've got between 4-6 drivers going in the thing, without moving the seat, we just change butt pads. we are kind of lucky, as we're all between like 5'5" and maybe 6'

i can check the layback when i get home

ive got one of those in peepers, and it is comfy. hasn't seen the track yet.